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New Dev Blog: The moments that define history

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Royaldo
Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch.
Clever Use of Neutral Toons
#261 - 2011-09-23 10:26:51 UTC
20 pages to this dev blog?
Woo Glin
State War Academy
Caldari State
#262 - 2011-09-23 10:27:11 UTC
someone tl;dr that
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#263 - 2011-09-23 10:57:25 UTC
Woo Glin wrote:
someone tl;dr that



tl;dr: baloon of hot hair.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
The Snowman
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#264 - 2011-09-23 11:21:54 UTC
Meissa Anunthiel wrote:
wall of unnecessary text sniped.


You talk far too much.

Its just a polite notice from the devs that there is a new blog on its way which most people acknowledge.

If you want to spend so much time responding to idiots who are trolling then you have far too much time, why not spend that time addressing real concerns that matter?
Janos Saal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#265 - 2011-09-23 11:41:30 UTC
CCP don't **** this up.

EVE is dead
niroshido
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#266 - 2011-09-23 11:43:36 UTC
i have heard this a lot before, i do not question CCP's ability at "re-evaluating" its position. I do however question the ability for upper management to allow the changes take place. Its great to say you are going to work on this. But i will remain skeptical and watch what you do, rather than what you say.

I want to see some deliveribles and i want the developers who know what they are doing make the decisions, not the upper management as i am not convinced the management knows what eve-online is anymore.

but like i said, i will wait and watch from a distance.
Dirk Decibel
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#267 - 2011-09-23 11:50:59 UTC
Sounds good CCP, unlike the ingame sound (hint!). :P
Dirk Decibel
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#268 - 2011-09-23 12:12:53 UTC
So, does this mean all those 5 year old bugs will finally get fixed too? :P
Kitty McKitty
In Praise Of Shadows
#269 - 2011-09-23 12:23:36 UTC
CCP Zulu wrote:
Watch this space.

Why? Is it going to do something?

♥ Haviing your portrait painted here helps INTAKI Disabled Children ♥
Claire Voyant
#270 - 2011-09-23 12:41:52 UTC
Royaldo wrote:
20 pages to this dev blog?

And why does this appear on page 14?
Sirane Elrek
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#271 - 2011-09-23 12:49:22 UTC
Claire Voyant wrote:
Royaldo wrote:
20 pages to this dev blog?

And why does this appear on page 14?

We can't tell you, the rules clearly state
Quote:
discussions regarding moderator actions are not permitted on the forum.
Claire Voyant
#272 - 2011-09-23 12:59:48 UTC
Sirane Elrek wrote:
Claire Voyant wrote:
Royaldo wrote:
20 pages to this dev blog?

And why does this appear on page 14?

We can't tell you, the rules clearly state
Quote:
discussions regarding moderator actions are not permitted on the forum.

Thanks for quoting the forum rules.
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#273 - 2011-09-23 13:03:09 UTC
2 posts about deleting posts deleted..lol

ok i loved the blog, ccp are awesom. is that what you want to hear?

OMG when can i get a pic here
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#274 - 2011-09-23 13:12:07 UTC
Sirane Elrek wrote:
Claire Voyant wrote:
Royaldo wrote:
20 pages to this dev blog?

And why does this appear on page 14?

We can't tell you, the rules clearly state
Quote:
discussions regarding moderator actions are not permitted on the forum.


Discussion about the discussion of moderation is ok though.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Miiis Sweety
Bersercs Inc
#275 - 2011-09-23 13:12:14 UTC
Meissa Anunthiel wrote:
To people who are angry about lack of "meat" in this devblog, let me just say a few things.

As a player, I want to know what's being worked on, and not just a "it's going to be ok" kind of statement (like I trust CCP to do things right Roll).
As a member of the CSM, I want to know what's going to be worked on as soon as it is talked about so I can give feedback before considerable effort is spent on something that's not going to solve our issues.

Those two things are what I'm unsatisfied about in this blog.

However, that being said...

CCP has had several problems in the past, the most notable of which has been a severe issue with direction of development. Planetary Interactions? InCarna? Both decent ideas too many resources have been put into without any satisfying roadmap or expectation of positive result. It's been mostly wishful thinking and the product of what we refer to as "team awesome".

CCP is currently taking a big step back from the crap and forward in the right direction. Following the forum rage, the dismal reception of incarna, the subscriber loss, they're effectively saying "let's refocus on what our customer want". That's quite big, and I can't fault CCP for taking a bit of time to figure out exactly in which direction that step should be taken. Which leads me to the 2nd point.

Having seen the way plans are made, I know CCP usually plans for more things that eventually make it to the release. Some of it is bad evaluation of resources needed to complete a task, some of it is the result of too high standards (lol art department), some of it makes sense as you want to overplan so if something goes faster than expected, you know what to spend your resources on.

Historically, whenever CCP has published a plan, instead of taking things with a grain of salt and being happy for the part that eventually made it in, people have reacted negatively to the things that *didn't* make it in. In that sense CCP Zulu's stance to underpromise and overdeliver makes a lot of sense.

The scope of the change is really huge, he said it, I say it. And CCP better be darn sure that what they're telling us is coming will actually be delivered (*wink* *wink*). If anything, this blog ensures that the next ones, the ones with the meat, have to show something we care about, because if it doesn't not only will we be facepalming at the content, we'll be raging at CCP's inability to comprehend what it is we want, despite the amount of feedback provided on the forums and through the CSM. So I'll be repeating what I said in the other thread. If they have to take 2 more weeks to figure out how to do things right, they should do just that, because at this stage promising something and failing to deliver it would be the worst move for this game.

We have another meeting with Zulu today, and what I'll be saying in essence is this:
- don't bring us shiny worthless **** that won't fix anything
- if you want to introduce new shiny, do it in a way that fixes existing problems (new shiny modular POSes, engaging sov mechanics, bounty/sec system revamp, use lowsec improvements to fix the "Crimewatch" system, etc.)

So, is this blog a missed opportunity for positive announcement, yes.
Do we need more information than vague statements, absolutely.
Is CCP's changing direction to go towards what we want a bad thing? Hell no!
That change is happening, we'll just focus on making sure it happens in the right direction.

Rage about the right things.


What she said!
Shirley C
Guardians Incorporated
Cynosural Field Theory.
#276 - 2011-09-23 13:12:32 UTC
CCP Moderators cleared the thread of trolling, some which i understood, some that I did not.

I have to say that I agree with the whole: "Watch what they do and not what they say" mentality that the community has taken. CCP have made some mistakes and im happy to see that most of the community have finally realised that these are management mistakes rather than those of actual developers.

I do however have to say, that of late, whilst lacking substance, CCP have provided information (albeit brief) that some what shows that a change of approach has occured. Wether this is at management level has yet to be shown, and this what I will be looking for.

TL:DR

Watch what they do and not what they say. Await further more in-depth information that should peak our interest and then monitor their progress in working towards the new goals which they will hopefully outline.

I can only hope that CCP has realised the error in its ways and whilst I have no doubt that there will be more issues in the future, I hope that they can deal with them in a more informed and tollerant manner.

Ciao
Letrange
Chaosstorm Corporation
#277 - 2011-09-23 13:15:48 UTC
*sigh*, you know, I get the impression that CCP Zulu was given the job of Producer because torfi and oveur no longer had the time to deal with things. But then he's been hamstrung by being micro-managed from above. Either that or he is the most unfortunate miss-communicating human on earth. I sometimes feel that or he's being used as a canary in a coal mine - stick him out front and see if the fumes kill him. Either way I feel sorry for him.

The Mittani wrote:
I'm going to hold my tongue on this one for now. However, I admit I did expect more substance from this 'announcement'. Hopefully, the positive steps that CCP had discussed with the CSM in our recent meetings are still on track.

That said, I entirely respect and understand the reactions of the rest of the CSM.


And why does The Mittani`s post sound like 'fine, but I'm a loading my shotgun with solid slugs because this sounds like you guys are about to **** up by the numbers... Once again'.

Dear CCP: Dev Blogs like CCP Zulu's are part of the problem, not part of the solution. Real producers do not post things like that. The producer is supposed to be in control. Not a glorified secretary waiting on higher ups to make up their minds while he's forced by orders from higher up to publish something. That blog post was actually not a healthy sign.
Swearte Widfarend
Ever Vigilant Fountain Defenders
#278 - 2011-09-23 13:29:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Swearte Widfarend
The best part about replying to a dev blog about basically nothing, is that we can say whatever we want, because there was no content to discuss.

So here's what I want to say.

I get that spaceships isn't continuing to grow the subscriber base enough.

I get that incarna is a feature designed for both Wod and EVE, to help expand the subscriber base.

I get that DUST514 is a FPS that will somehow, someday, link into EVE.

Do you get that the best approach would be to improve on the existing product, resolve long-standing issues, iterate on features from previous releases, and continuing to develop spaceships is important if you want to maintain the subscriber base (and perhaps even recover some of the lost)?

Do you get that (from outside) it looks like CCP has stretched themselves too thin and it seems like nothing is getting done?

If so, then this won't end badly for you (CCP) or us (the players of EVE Online). I think DUST is a cool idea. I could care less about Incarna or WoD - but I get that you see it as a necessary next step. Maybe, just maybe, you should focus on EVE (and DUST, which seems furthest from vaporware), and have a SMALL team look at Incarna. A small team evaluate if the right path is to integrate an existing engine rather than try to write a new one, or to spend many, many years writing an engine that will work (I suggest recruiting folks who know how to build one, FWIW). You can have it all - but not all at once, and maybe not all done in-house, but you can have it all - with patience.

Everybody likes to hate Apple Computer, but I'm going to use them to tell a story.

Quote:
In the early 1990s, Apple was riding a decent wave of growth, too high end maybe but the product was solid. Over the next few years product fragmentation, poor executive decisions, and a lack of clear direction brought Apple to their knees. In 1997 they had more product lines than a mainstream PC manufacturer. The OS was 20 years old, and showing it. They were devoting resources into developing a new Operating System (called Copeland) - and it was on the 2nd or 3rd iteration but still nothing worthwhile in the hands of the developers.

As part of a plan to recover from the tailspin, Apple purchased NeXT computing, and brought Steve Jobs back to help revitalize a company that had lost it's vision and direction. One of the first things he did was kill spurious, irrelevant products that weren't ready to contribute to the future of the company, including Copeland. Apple took the core of the NeXT OS (which was already a production OS) as the basis for the next iteration of Mac OS, shaving years off of their development cycles. They were willing to give up the "not invented here" mentality to actually get a good, working product out the door. They were willing to focus the majority of their effort on their core products. Today, they have the largest market capitalization of any company in the world.


I don't expect CCP to be the next Apple. But the question is, can you be that bold?

Democracy is only as good as the despot managing the voting booth.
Yvan Ratamnim
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#279 - 2011-09-23 13:45:31 UTC
i'll believe it when i start to see even a little bit of solid information, so far its all "we'll change" i've been hearing that since the CSM had its conference so far we've seen 0 of that change in actual integration or gameplay.
Kormara
Dreams Unlimited
#280 - 2011-09-23 13:52:56 UTC
As players, we will view what you do, not what you say. And so far, you have done very litte.