These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Assembly Hall

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

An Open Letter to Robert Woodhead

First post
Author
Susan Black
Ice Fire Warriors
#1 - 2012-03-09 18:01:00 UTC
Dear Sir,

I was not surprised when I logged on around a week ago to an alliance mail from Hans Jagerblitzen asking us to take a look at a good post you had made on the EVE forums. Ever the community builder, Hans is never shy about promoting something that is good or meriting discussion, even if it comes from a candidate he is running against. Though we all support Hans here at Late Night Alliance, many of us were willing to go take a look, and offer an encouraging word to another CSM candidate, specifically yourself.

What did surprise me was the solicitation I received several days later, where it was obvious that my character's name, and the names of fellow alliance members and pilots had obviously been stripped from this post. (This was a different mail then the one sent to the EVE community at large the following day.) In this mail, you solicit our help, stating that you "need to grub for every last vote."

The following day, I received a second spam, and must admit that I became somewhat irritated at this point, and concerned that CCP was allowing this spam to continue. What will be next? Recruitment spam every morning? Contract solicitations? By setting the precedence on this matter, CCP is opening a huge can of worms. I'm afraid that based on your example, people are going to realize how easy it is to spam, and that our inboxes will someday resemble Jita local chat.


I could argue that your spam is indeed in direct conflict with the Terms of Service of EVE Online.

I could explain how spam in general, specifically the precedence of your solicitations that will eventually cause additional solicitations, directly interferes with the ability of other EVE Online subscribers, as a whole, to enjoy the game. Spam interferes with other, legitimate communication between players. It is also extremely frustrating to pilots who cannot easily filter such unsolicited communications -- filtering that most companies readily, and eagerly offer their clients in this day and age.

I could explain how your mail could be considered as a promotion of solicitation, and that your open urging to forward this spam mail on to my corpmates and friends resembles the making of a chain letter--a practice specifically prohibited by the ToS.


Instead I'm petitioning your good graces. I am petitioning that you do not contradict the very things you state in your mail.

For, how can I believe you when you say:
Quote:
I have spent countless hours pushing CCP to improve the game for the benefit of the entire EVE community...


When you send spam that most decidedly does NOT improve the game, and does NOT benefit the entire EVE community, but instead frustrates and annoys pilots?

How can I believe you when you say:
Quote:
I am the guy that thinks your opinions matter



  • When you defend your spam mail, even though a large number of people have expressed their opinions against this act?


  • When you knowing took a 'calculated risk' knowing full well you would be going against the opinions of a large portion of EVE pilots?


  • When you blatantly shoved the opinions of EVE pilots aside for the benefit of your own interests?



How can I believe you when you say you want to push for us...

When you openly disrespect the EVE player base by openly 'grubbing around for votes' and spamming, instead of using that time to engage the community in honest, open discussion about game mechanics and players' issues?


Not even the troll voters want this kind of spam in their inbox.


How can I ever again engage you in conversation on the EVE Online forums without the fear that the very act of posting on one of your threads will lead to another spam mail?


Even the Mitanni built his name recognition through game philosophies, reputation, and action. Not by sniveling computer programs and scraping macros that smell of desperation.



So, I petition you:


  • Please stop unsolicited mail sent to the EVE Player base at large, and petition CCP to have this considered an exploit, to prevent it from happening in the future.


  • Please take the time to build your own mailing list, as other candidates have done through hard work and community involvement, where you can openly engage with people who desire to hear from you.


  • Please start listening to us again.


  • And please, please stop spamming me with your desperate, contradictory propoganda.


Sincerely,
Susan Black

www.gamerchick.net @gamerchick42

Gritz1
Ice Fire Warriors
#2 - 2012-03-09 18:10:53 UTC
Cheers susan, I second this.
Smiling Menace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-03-09 18:14:41 UTC
I am going to go with a wild stab in the dark in here, you got spammed by a CSM Candidate?

Hope Robert Woodhead pays attention. This may very well backfire and cost him votes.

I take it back, Drake, I may support your idea after all.
Hustomte
The Scope
#4 - 2012-03-09 18:16:21 UTC
This is beyond STUPID, you obviously did not read Trebor's open letter to the community on why he did this.

Seriously, get busy living or get busy dying ... just STFU about things you are clueless about.
kthnxbai

...Signature...

Gemetan
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2012-03-09 18:21:23 UTC
Fight the power! Flying spam filters ftw!
Drake Draconis
Obsidian Engineering
Evictus.
#6 - 2012-03-09 19:12:52 UTC
Smiling Menace wrote:
I am going to go with a wild stab in the dark in here, you got spammed by a CSM Candidate?

Hope Robert Woodhead pays attention. This may very well backfire and cost him votes.

I take it back, Drake, I may support your idea after all.



You forgot to mention that this thread doesn't belong here. But thats ok. :)

================ STOP THE EVEMAIL SPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#7 - 2012-03-09 21:34:17 UTC
I received this kind of thing from Trebor last year. So it didn't surprise me that he did it this year. The people who Trebor offended are the minority, but raising the issue of the spam exemption for CSM candidates is important.

This does raise the issue of how well the large alliances can organise behind their specific representative. The rest of the players essentially need to get behind o e or two candidates. When the counting is published, I have no doubt that a large majority of the votes in the first 20 hours will turn out to have come from null sec blocs.

As offensive as Trebor's campaign is to some people, it is necessary on order to secure a seat for someone whose support base is "the whole population" as opposed to single-issue candidates such as The Mittani ("death to all supercaps"), Two Step (wormhole population), Hans Jagerblitzen (Faction Warfare), Mintrolio (CSM ARE JOEK) et al.

I voted for Trebor, since he will at least communicate with the players, as opposed to Mittani who figures no one is worth his time. Well, except when he has an opportunity to appear as a stool pigeon on a CCP propaganda video.
Drake Draconis
Obsidian Engineering
Evictus.
#8 - 2012-03-09 21:46:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Drake Draconis
Mara Rinn wrote:
I received this kind of thing from Trebor last year. So it didn't surprise me that he did it this year. The people who Trebor offended are the minority, but raising the issue of the spam exemption for CSM candidates is important.

This does raise the issue of how well the large alliances can organise behind their specific representative. The rest of the players essentially need to get behind o e or two candidates. When the counting is published, I have no doubt that a large majority of the votes in the first 20 hours will turn out to have come from null sec blocs.

As offensive as Trebor's campaign is to some people, it is necessary on order to secure a seat for someone whose support base is "the whole population" as opposed to single-issue candidates such as The Mittani ("death to all supercaps"), Two Step (wormhole population), Hans Jagerblitzen (Faction Warfare), Mintrolio (CSM ARE JOEK) et al.

I voted for Trebor, since he will at least communicate with the players, as opposed to Mittani who figures no one is worth his time. Well, except when he has an opportunity to appear as a stool pigeon on a CCP propaganda video.


It is one thing to get the populations attention to participate.

Its an entirely different matter to shove that message down peoples throats without permission or authorization thereof.

I find trebors moves disgusting and insulting....if he was interested in winning the hearts of the common pilot...he's got alot to learn about politics.

He likely will win mostly on nullsec/low sec votes anyway.

As for the CSM in gernal....get a clue....seriously.....the CSM has always been like this....people are likely more turned off than ever when it comes to participation and the underhanded tactics they use just to get a damn ticket to iceland and sit there and look pretty.

At least those such as mitanni and a few others are actually doing something for once...everyone else traets this like a laughing stock of a joke.

If you want to win the hearts of the common joe pilot....then you do so by your actions...not by your flipping words.

You get out there....talk to people....convo them....and eventually by word of mouth they will show up.

Forcing them to vote by means of spamming is going to **** people off....

Hell I'd sooner vote for darius who scams by promising plexes to get them to vote for him as opposed to people who fill my eve mail box with their #### smelling campang messages.

Why? because Darius is using a EVE mechanic that is widely known and respectable....well in most circiles (aside from noobs)

Spamming with EVE mails is not respectable or considered a mechanic to be widely nown and used.

It's an exploit.....prue and simple. One that CCP will beat around the bush about and pussy foot when it comes to reasoning as to whether its allowed or not.

They gave a grey answer...not black or white....no no or yes...etc.

Lets get the facts straight people....this is par for the course here...nothings going to change...just going to make more people demand CSM disbandment...and that's just the tip of the iceberg.

================ STOP THE EVEMAIL SPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152

RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2012-03-10 03:13:07 UTC
I was very annoyed by his message. Esp since i do follow the forums and what CSM candidates were saying etc.

Very honestly it left me with the impression of disgust more then anything.

Second was the it reeked of desperation. I dont like my candidates to be desperate people.


**Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence" **

Seismic Stan
Freebooted Junkworks
#10 - 2012-03-10 08:56:12 UTC
Ouch! Hell hath no fury like a woman spammed.
Trebor Daehdoow
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-03-10 20:58:46 UTC
Susan, you will find my reply to your concerns posted here.

Best regards,
Trebor

Private Citizen • CSM in recovery

Macon Chalaise
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-03-10 21:33:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Macon Chalaise
Susan Black wrote:
Dear Sir,

I was not surprised when I logged on around a week ago to an alliance mail from Hans Jagerblitzen asking us to take a look at a good post you had made on the EVE forums. Ever the community builder, Hans is never shy about promoting something that is good or meriting discussion, even if it comes from a candidate he is running against. Though we all support Hans here at Late Night Alliance, many of us were willing to go take a look, and offer an encouraging word to another CSM candidate, specifically yourself.

What did surprise me was the solicitation I received several days later, where it was obvious that my character's name, and the names of fellow alliance members and pilots had obviously been stripped from this post. (This was a different mail then the one sent to the EVE community at large the following day.) In this mail, you solicit our help, stating that you "need to grub for every last vote."

The following day, I received a second spam, and must admit that I became somewhat irritated at this point, and concerned that CCP was allowing this spam to continue. What will be next? Recruitment spam every morning? Contract solicitations? By setting the precedence on this matter, CCP is opening a huge can of worms. I'm afraid that based on your example, people are going to realize how easy it is to spam, and that our inboxes will someday resemble Jita local chat.


I could argue that your spam is indeed in direct conflict with the Terms of Service of EVE Online.

I could explain how spam in general, specifically the precedence of your solicitations that will eventually cause additional solicitations, directly interferes with the ability of other EVE Online subscribers, as a whole, to enjoy the game. Spam interferes with other, legitimate communication between players. It is also extremely frustrating to pilots who cannot easily filter such unsolicited communications -- filtering that most companies readily, and eagerly offer their clients in this day and age.

I could explain how your mail could be considered as a promotion of solicitation, and that your open urging to forward this spam mail on to my corpmates and friends resembles the making of a chain letter--a practice specifically prohibited by the ToS.


Instead I'm petitioning your good graces. I am petitioning that you do not contradict the very things you state in your mail.

For, how can I believe you when you say:
Quote:
I have spent countless hours pushing CCP to improve the game for the benefit of the entire EVE community...


When you send spam that most decidedly does NOT improve the game, and does NOT benefit the entire EVE community, but instead frustrates and annoys pilots?

How can I believe you when you say:
Quote:
I am the guy that thinks your opinions matter



  • When you defend your spam mail, even though a large number of people have expressed their opinions against this act?


  • When you knowing took a 'calculated risk' knowing full well you would be going against the opinions of a large portion of EVE pilots?


  • When you blatantly shoved the opinions of EVE pilots aside for the benefit of your own interests?



How can I believe you when you say you want to push for us...

When you openly disrespect the EVE player base by openly 'grubbing around for votes' and spamming, instead of using that time to engage the community in honest, open discussion about game mechanics and players' issues?


Not even the troll voters want this kind of spam in their inbox.


How can I ever again engage you in conversation on the EVE Online forums without the fear that the very act of posting on one of your threads will lead to another spam mail?


Even the Mitanni built his name recognition through game philosophies, reputation, and action. Not by sniveling computer programs and scraping macros that smell of desperation.



So, I petition you:


  • Please stop unsolicited mail sent to the EVE Player base at large, and petition CCP to have this considered an exploit, to prevent it from happening in the future.


  • Please take the time to build your own mailing list, as other candidates have done through hard work and community involvement, where you can openly engage with people who desire to hear from you.


  • Please start listening to us again.


  • And please, please stop spamming me with your desperate, contradictory propoganda.


Sincerely,
Susan Black


There is much anger and upset with this one...Pirate

Here's to fire. Not the fast and furious kind that burns down shacks and shanties, but the slow, seductive kind that takes down pants and panties - Irish Toast

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#13 - 2012-03-11 11:11:44 UTC
wood...giggity...head...giggity giggity goo!

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log

Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-03-12 12:27:45 UTC
For the love of Satans penis. Do a ******* search already...there has been enough ignorant and butthurt babble about this. Don't like an EvEMail that was sent to you? Don't ******* read it. He didn't force you to. You did that on your own. You probably wasted more time writing your whine of a forum post than it would have taken a braindead monkey to read his mail and delete it.

I get spam mail every day of my life through both the postal service and all 3 of my email accounts. Luckily I am not such a little spoiled brat that I let it get to me otherwise I would spend my whole life making stupid posts like the OP.

Don't log into EvE. You might see chat spam for votes in local...it might just kill you if you aren't careful!

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821

Adeleda Adoudel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2012-03-15 07:13:28 UTC
Isnt the CSPA charge supposed to be for stopping spam? Couldnt you just switch that on?
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2012-03-15 12:50:37 UTC
As Vile Rat has mentioned above, the CSPA charge no longer applies when you send to multiple contacts. By definition, what he did is Spam. CCP condones this for CSM members while they are running for "office" though. Even then...people need to just grow a pair and quit looking for stupid reasons to be offended. I figure most of the people enraged over this are kids that just don't have a clue.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821