Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Here's the thing: gallente really ARE ballanced atm.

Gallente Pros:
Arguably the best interceptors
The highest raw damage of ANY subcaps
Recently been buffed (all ships and their weapons)
Talos is boss
Brutix is boss
Great PvE boats - dominix is widely considered the second best t1 pve boat (next to the raven)
All the best caps: Moros is the best dread, Thanny is the best carrier, Nyx is the best supercarrier, and the erebus is (arguably, even though it gets the best bonus and uses capital blasters) the best titan.
One of the best cheap-pvp alternatives (thorax)
Every gallente ship still gets a decent sized drone bay.
Have 2 immediately great pirate faction battleship their skills are great for (guristas, and serpentis, one could argue angel cartel as well, but thats a lot more training)

Cons:
Some of their battleships are slow
Their command ships really are lacking
Not the best damage dealers for small gang pvp
Drones are targetable and destroyable

However, lets quickly look at the other races, shall we?

Amarr Pros:
Tend to have some of the tankiest ships out there
Do great damage at medium range.
Don't require ammo
Have neuting boats (curse anyone?)
have arguably the second best caps (maybe archon is tied with the chimera)

Amarr cons:
Guns require LOTS of cap
Aren't the greatest at extreme ranges
have SLOW ships (just like the gallente, although they didn't get a recent buff)


Caldari pros:
Missiles are effect at all ranges, and aren't succeptible to tracking
Drake/Tengu (AMIRITE?)
Arguably the best pve ships out there (Raven, CNR, Golem)
ECM boats
Railgun boats, particularly the rokh and the naga are actually quite good now, and can do great damage at rediculous range.
They have the best freighter?

Caldari cons:
MISSILE FLIGHT TIME MISSILE FLIGHT TIME MISSILE FLIGHT TIME
Large fleets hate shield tankers. Seriously.
most of the useful ships you're going to fly aren't mainline ships (damage dealers)
SLOW AS ****
****** caps (seriously, nobody likes them other than the chimera)
Worst dronebays in the game.

Minnie pros:
Fastest ships in the game
Great lineup of cheap pvp ships to fly... (rifter, stabber, rupture)
Battlecruiser many would consider equal to the drake (cane)
Tornado speaks for itself
Highest alpha ships (malestrom fleet anyone?)
versatile. they have shield ships, armour ships, missile ships, turret ships, fast ships, you name it!

Minnie cons:
Tend to be fairly thin (though not always)
Always fighting in falloff
Their caps REALLY suck... i mean, worse than the caldari ones.
Split weapon systems, and tank systems means very skill intensive. (train shield AND armour, missiles, AND guns.

I'm not the oldest player and I usually like to avoid the dribble arguments about balancing. But why do you need to dictate range when your drones are always in range?

Theres a drone for that.

Anything that would threaten the chosen race (minmitar) is a no-go.

The fact they gave the speed race in the game the bonus to webs should have been your first clue.

I don't mean to troll but the OP's KB is practically non-existent so it's hard to take what he says as valid points if he hasn't fought for at least a couple years. OP- Have you even flown these ships yourselves and done so on a consistent basis?

Regarding these:

Amarr are racially bonused to reduce the cap their guns use. Tachyons + Gleam are all the range you need. It doesn't matter if they are slow because they don't need to dictate range.

Caldari have bonuses to missile velocity. Define useful? Caldari are bonuses to shield tank to counter their slower base speed. Their primary damage type does not revolve around capacitor. Have you looked at the Amarr drone bays?

Minmatar are fairly thin in order to balance their ships. Their weapons do not use capacitor and thus they are less dependent on it. Additionally, most Minmatar ships are not meant to armor tank.

Lastly, most races require double training. Gallente = Hybrids + Drones, Caldari = Hybrids + Missiles, Minmatar = Projectiles + Missiles, Amarr = Energy + Missiles. All the races are required to be trained in a variety of areas in order to be fully effective.

I have been thinking about the arguement of Drones versus Missiles. What if you made a ship for the Gallente that was designed from the ground up to be both a Droneboat and a Missileboat? And even better, make it no bigger than a Cruiser or a Frigate. And in case you can't use Missiles, never fear. Just give it one (or two) Turret hardpoints, but no turret bonuses, just Missile and Drone bonuses.

Gallente needs a different type of fixes for different hull sizes to work in null warfare.

Their frigates are powerful and fine, not much needs to be done.

The cruiser/battlecruisers are powerful for small gang warfare, I like the idea of giving all HACs the same bonus as assault ships of -50% mwd sig making them fast enough to use their high dps to blast people to bits.

Battleships is a bigger problem, sure their short range high dps might be usable in a specific fleet type (but i doubt it). They wont have enough range to fly with the amarrian scorch using fleets with blasters and they dont have enough cpu to use a good rail fit. Maybe redesign one of their hulls to use armor tank and rails? Give one of the ships a range bonus? Maybe giving sentries the ability to move while not shooting can make domis usable?

Forgot to add the permanently set Thermal and Kinetic damage which are the two most easily tanked resistances both on shields and armor. Hybrids can't perform to the same degree as Amarr as many times there are gaping holes of EM in many ships' base resistances.

Alright... round 2





1) Ranis can put out 200 dps on a ceptor hull. No other ceptor can even come close. Thats a HUGE advantage vs other ceptors

2) If gallente had the highest damage, and fastest ships, they'd be OP as ****. Caldari get good damage/tank, but are slow, huge sig, and have flight time + wasted dps. Amarr get okay damage, average speed, strong tank, and decent range overall, a really good baseline to compare other races to. Minmatar might get good dps on paper, but are ALWAYS fighting in falloff. Their speed is made up for by their reduced damage, and their thin tanks


3) No, but it means that ccp are probably going to wait a while to see how players use the ships that they've recently buffed, rather than changing them AGAIN


4) In case you haven't noticed, the talos has actually come into its own a lot in the realm of solo pvp. Ask kil


5) The brutix is the only tier 1 bc thats regularly used. Its actually decently fast, and puts out rediculously awesome dps for a bc. I love flying drakes. I can 1v1 ANY cane hands down, i'll win every time. I always have said though that I try to avoid brutii if i can

6) No, but a lot of people try to sell that for caldari. Caldari and gallente are both hampered by some of the same problems. Their ships are slow, their battleships are somewhat lacking, they have great pve boats, that don't always translate well to pvp fleets. But there's few ships better than a priest domi for a 10/10


7) You're joking, right? All of the races are different, all of them have strengths, all of them have weaknesses. One of the gallente's strengths is that they DOMINATE the capital arena. How do you think the caldari feel? They have the short end here


8) No, but we're slowly starting to mount up the reasons why they're decent



Trying to call gallente "dual weapons, so they have to train more" doesn't really work. EVERYBODY has to train drone skills to fly their ships effectively. Gallente don't really

have to train any extra.

Caldari on the other hand must train missiles, hybrids, and ecm skills (as they have 3 distinct types of ships)


You're right that defender missiles are useless. But smartbombs aren't. Last time we fought PL/NC. tengus, we put 2x smartbombing phoons between us and them. Oops, no missile damage


By "designed against themselves" you really end up talking about all races.

One could comment how minmatar who have the weakest tank, are often forced to mwd around the battlefield to take advantage of their speed, thus blowing up their sig radius, and making them easy targets for large guns



Or... amarr ships are conducive to blob warfare, yet they are so slow, they tend to be unable to burn out of a bubble when the entire fleet gets bubbled, and have a tendancy for every ship to die..


Or... caldari ships, where ecm ships are always first primary, but have really weak tanks. they're designed against themselves
Missile boats have flight time/velocity bonuses are working against themselves. making missiles fly farther, reducing dps



Missing a bonus? First of all, may i remind you that that bonus the hyperion gets, the mael gets for shields


Missing a bonus? Lets talk about the amarr missing a bonus. Its the capacitor use bonus. Seriously, who gives a crap. In a short battle it doesn't make a difference. In a long fleet battle, you're cap boosting anyways. I don't see many buff amarr threads thoug


Most minmatar ships get a tracking bonus. too bad that autocannons already have the best tracking in the game...



Caldari missile velocity bonuses get on my nerves. its something the other races don't have to deal with. Whereas another race gets a tank bonus, or a damage bonus, or something, caldari get a missile velocity bonus... yay -_-


oh, still going?


Yeah, the drake is a great ship. So is the cane. So is the brutix. In all honesty, if we're talking about bc's, amarr got the short end with the 'lol' prophecy, and the 'just okay' harb



i can go on about how your proposed changes would make gallente OP (giving them the highest possible damage, as well as the ability to dictate range, etc.



or i could go on about how caldari have gotten the short end of the stick so many times, from easily killable ecm ships, to only 1 t1 battleship that uses missiles, or how slow they are...

but i decided long ago to maximize the good qualities of my race, and deal with the bad ones. And i realized that all races have their strong points and weak points, and that no matter how much i want MY race to be always that much better than the rest, it would be un-balanced



tl;dr Man up, smarten up, or x-train.