These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page123
 

caldari pvp ship choice?
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Fleet Warpsujarento
Doomheim
#41 - 2012-03-06 20:16:55 UTC
Quote:
Some general points.It's a long time since I've been in lowsec, but when I was there, my personal style emphasised range. Other styles are viable too, and I have nothing against Oracle or Tornado when they're used appropriately. But I do object to your assertion that the 70-100 km range window is unimportant, in the same way that you would object if I was to state that the close-range window was unimportant, presumably.


Quote:
I struggle to get much past 30k EHP on a Tornado. Missile flight time to 70 km is 12 seconds, hardly an eternity. I would not describe these things as resilient, and in a straight slugging match with a basic HML Drake they will normally die - or be driven from the field, which is why I regard the ~70 km effective HM range as important. Interestingly, if you do regard EHP as important, then the Naga is worth a look on that basis. If you have logistics support, then sure, you may prefer to stay inside the HM envelope and take the hits, but if not, then the option to outrange them exists. Re. damage types: yes, Scorch is good vs Drakes, hybrids are okay, Barrage is lolterrible.


30k (or closer to 25k on the fits I would use), is not enough to win a straight up fight with a Drake, but it is enough that it'll take one Drake a minute or so to force you off field or even just out of their HML range. That's a minute of them wasting their DPS on a target that they will not be able to kill. That's why, as a rule, they don't bother to actually shoot at your t3 unless they have a point. Sure, your Naga doesn't have to do the range dance that you would have to if they do target you, but it's not going to hurt your side even if the Oracle or Nado has to, it's just going to disrupt the enemy at the cost of an even slighter disruption to you.

This is all without even considering the ease with which a Naga at long range can be driven off field by a single frigate heading in its direction, a weakness that the closer range t 3s, moving faster, operating closer to friendly support, and with vastly better tracking, are not nearly so vulnerable to.

Quote:
The other t3s don't have the tank to operate effective at close range either.

Not at close close range, but as you say, beyond about 30k you're pretty resistant to potshots shots.

Quote:
So here's a guess. Naga warps in at 50 km;

That'll be the last thing it ever does Big smile In practice it's usually more like 100.

Quote:
Falcon uncloaks/Scimitar arrives on the other side at 50-70 km. Result: 100-120 km range, Naga applies damage after 5 s reload. Tornado and Oracle, which arrived at 20-30 km because they can't survive close up either, find themselves hopelessly out of range and possibly with t2 BCs to fly around if they do want to approach the Falcon/Scimitar. I mean, your statement admits that the other t3s will not be in range, it's not much of an argument, honestly.


There's a big difference between "hopelessly out of range" and "being able to apply full DPS within 10-15 seconds of the Falcon beginning to ECM unless the Falcon lands in an absolutely spot on perfect position on directly the opposite side of the fight". An enemy getting lucky and landing in the right place may well screw you, sure, but the same is even more true of a rail Naga. Even this all assumes that you've only brought one of the t3s with your gang. If you've got one or two more Oracles you can guard both "hemispheres" of your fleet from ECM very effectively.

The big advantage of the Naga over the others, and I don't dispute this, is that it can hit ECM ships from a range that makes it immune to being ECM'd itself. But that really isn't enough to compensate for the greater damage and flexibility of Oracle and Nado. I'm not saying that the Naga is a bad ship ( because it isn't), and I'm not saying that it doesn't have some minor advantages for certain parts of small gang warfare in lowsec, but it's hard to consider it as a competitor to the others when it does have such disadvantages.
Randomgenerated Alt
Doomheim
#42 - 2012-03-07 20:55:47 UTC
Calethria wrote:
wow... i just saw this post. It fits my same question perfectly...

i *thought* that Caldari ships are poor for PVP because they are fat and do little DPS.

Or is it a case of "train for the damn tengu, and shut the hell up!"

It's gonna take me 40 days to train the tengu! not to mention any additional training needed for the parts of the ship!



Caldari in general do suck for pvp.. Drake,Tengu,Harpy and hawk are ok for solo. Minnie is the flavor of the year, they do everything caldari do but ecm.. and they do it better.
Zheno
The Daedalus Group
#43 - 2012-03-08 19:16:38 UTC
I mean... Drake.. Tengu anyone?

[IMG]http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g35/jstigs/evesig.jpg[/IMG]
Previous page123