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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Need Advice about Solo PVP With myself and 3 friends.

Author
Lady Go Diveher
Doomheim
#61 - 2011-09-22 08:44:10 UTC
Heh.

You guys should really join my corp :)

Baiting wall-of-text levels of advice, then popping back with an inane reply that completely ignores it?

Classic troll.

I'm going to up you guys to 7/10 for excellent bites.
Alexis Prey
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2011-09-22 08:51:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Alexis Prey
Lady Go Diveher wrote:
Heh.

You guys should really join my corp :)

Baiting wall-of-text levels of advice, then popping back with an inane reply that completely ignores it?

Classic troll.

I'm going to up you guys to 7/10 for excellent bites.


I'm not ignoring it. She's under the impression that we are going to all 4 on 1 hulks for kills. Which we're not. The Pilgrim isn't a tackle, It's a ship capable of a 1 v 1 when the situation presents itself, and only when it presents itself.

Our goal is not to be gankers, but 1 v 1 griefers capable of shutting down or slowing the industrial portion of a system. Sure, there can be mining ops, but not with out solid defence. Sure you can solo mine in a grav, but you should be checking that dscan as often as possible.

We want to be ninjas. Not another Gank Squad. We want to base our tactics off of studying and monitoring the enemy and inputing the data into a program that I made myself for exactly our corp. If we were impatient, and so easily baited just for a kill, I'm sure this wouldn't work, but if we are willing to watch a hulk mine for 3 hours a day, for 2 days to get it's pattern down, and camp in front of a station, belt, or gate just documenting the everyday happenings, and patterns of our enemy, than I have no doubt that our enemy will be extremely annoyed with us regardless if we even get a single kill, and hopefully, we can achieve ultimate goal.

We plan to be pirates, but we aren't pirating ships. We're pirating systems.
foksieloy
Rockets ponies and rainbows
#63 - 2011-09-22 08:55:53 UTC  |  Edited by: foksieloy
Lady Go Diveher wrote:
I'm going to up you guys to 7/10 for excellent bites.


I will agree.

@OP: If you manage to go to 7 pages without making more than 3 posts per page, i will upgrade that to 9/10.

Disclaimer: I do not actually play this game, I just forum warrior.

Taurean Eltanin
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#64 - 2011-09-22 08:57:41 UTC
The truth is that there are plenty of great PvP corps out there that are exactly what you are looking for, but you need to recognise that the onus is on you to convince them that you are the right fit.

Take my own corp as an example. The Tuskers are a pure pvp corp; we're ranked number 9 on battleclinic, for whatever that's worth. We fly exclusively solo and in small gangs. While we do take on new players from time to time, we only do so for candidates of exceptional quality.

Sounds perfect, right? Dedicated, active, selective; everything you've asked for. Except we wouldn't take you.

I don't say that to be unpleasant, it's simply that you don't meet our entry requirements. We have a skillpoint requirement (which we will waive for exceptional candidates), but we also require five solo kills, two of which are above class. This is a non-negotiable requirement for every Tusker (ever), and as you don't meet that requirement, you can't join. Simple.

Every serious pvp corp will have some version of these requirements, and, being new characters, you will struggle to meet any of them. Even corps that cater to new pvpers (such as Agony Unleashed or the now defunct Blood Money Cartel) have pretty strict standards.

If you really want to join a top pvp corp, do some research. Figure out who you want to join and what there entry requirements are. Then work on meeting those requirements. In the mean time, hang out in their public channel (any serious corp will have one) and let the members get to know you. When the time is right, apply.

If you like reading about low sec piracy or wormhole pvp, you might enjoy my blog.

Alexis Prey
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2011-09-22 09:02:51 UTC
Taurean Eltanin wrote:
The truth is that there are plenty of great PvP corps out there that are exactly what you are looking for, but you need to recognise that the onus is on you to convince them that you are the right fit.

Take my own corp as an example. The Tuskers are a pure pvp corp; we're ranked number 9 on battleclinic, for whatever that's worth. We fly exclusively solo and in small gangs. While we do take on new players from time to time, we only do so for candidates of exceptional quality.

Sounds perfect, right? Dedicated, active, selective; everything you've asked for. Except we wouldn't take you.

I don't say that to be unpleasant, it's simply that you don't meet our entry requirements. We have a skillpoint requirement (which we will waive for exceptional candidates), but we also require five solo kills, two of which are above class. This is a non-negotiable requirement for every Tusker (ever), and as you don't meet that requirement, you can't join. Simple.

Every serious pvp corp will have some version of these requirements, and, being new characters, you will struggle to meet any of them. Even corps that cater to new pvpers (such as Agony Unleashed or the now defunct Blood Money Cartel) have pretty strict standards.

If you really want to join a top pvp corp, do some research. Figure out who you want to join and what there entry requirements are. Then work on meeting those requirements. In the mean time, hang out in their public channel (any serious corp will have one) and let the members get to know you. When the time is right, apply.


20% tax rate? No thanks. We like our ninja corp just fine.
foksieloy
Rockets ponies and rainbows
#66 - 2011-09-22 09:14:16 UTC
As a note, Tuskers never rat NPC's, so tax rate is irrelevant.

Their rats have avatars in local, and drop T2 loot.

Disclaimer: I do not actually play this game, I just forum warrior.

Taurean Eltanin
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#67 - 2011-09-22 09:54:24 UTC
Alexis Prey wrote:


20% tax rate? No thanks. We like our ninja corp just fine.


Many corps that truly focus on pvp discourage pve with high tax rates. Just a thought.

I'm glad you are enjoying your new corp. Feel free to pop down to Hev; our ships are not quite as high powered as yours, but we'd still be happy to give you some fights.

If you like reading about low sec piracy or wormhole pvp, you might enjoy my blog.

Alexis Prey
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2011-09-22 10:04:49 UTC
Taurean Eltanin wrote:
Alexis Prey wrote:


20% tax rate? No thanks. We like our ninja corp just fine.


Many corps that truly focus on pvp discourage pve with high tax rates. Just a thought.

I'm glad you are enjoying your new corp. Feel free to pop down to Hev; our ships are not quite as high powered as yours, but we'd still be happy to give you some fights.




We're not looking for ship kills. If we get them it's fine, but we are system pirates. Not Ship Pirates. Now, if you have a system in null sec with a 4-5 indy rating, we will be happy to come over
J'Poll
Perkone
Caldari State
#69 - 2011-09-22 11:17:43 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Khanh'rhh wrote:
To put the final nail in the coffin of this bullshit, I would like to remind you of:

Quote:
As for flying rifters, and other cheap ships, this is an option, but not something I'd personally like to do. My character has almost 5m SP, and all of it is 100% skilled toward a Pilgrim. This means that I can't go around flying rifters, or other things without training some skills-- which would take me off the path I prefer -- 100% pilgrim build. There are pilots with 160m SP out there, and the only way I will be able to even come close to comparing to them is if I 100% specialize to make up for all the lost SP. Even then I'm sure I won't ever compare, but at least with this method, I am closer to I would be had I skilled for several various ships.



In stark contrast to your battleclinic record:

(EDIT: can't link because the forums are ******* awful - so go look) - http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Alexis+Prey#losses

* The loss of a rail & heavy missile Typhoon

* The cloaky heavy missile Typhoon

* And an Incursus

All of which, as we all know, are "100%" pre-requisites to the Pilgirm.

I can't wait to see how you fit your shiney ships



Lol, mixed shield and armor fitted Typhoon with 3 different hi-slot stuff (3 x rails, 2 x T2 Heavy Launcher, Meta 1 Heavy)

And maybe you should learn how to skill for a ship as you totally forgot that you should skill for RIGS too.


On the people you call trolls, those guys learned PVP as you should learn it.

Try PVP in a cheap frig, when you're good with it move to Destroyers.
Try PVP in destoyers, when you're good with it move to Cruisers/BC.
Try PVP in cruisers/BC, when you're good with it move to BS.

(like in real world, you don't start driving a Formula 1 car at your first driving lesson, you always start small and work up)


Alexis Prey wrote:
Taurean Eltanin wrote:
The truth is that there are plenty of great PvP corps out there that are exactly what you are looking for, but you need to recognise that the onus is on you to convince them that you are the right fit.

Take my own corp as an example. The Tuskers are a pure pvp corp; we're ranked number 9 on battleclinic, for whatever that's worth. We fly exclusively solo and in small gangs. While we do take on new players from time to time, we only do so for candidates of exceptional quality.

Sounds perfect, right? Dedicated, active, selective; everything you've asked for. Except we wouldn't take you.

I don't say that to be unpleasant, it's simply that you don't meet our entry requirements. We have a skillpoint requirement (which we will waive for exceptional candidates), but we also require five solo kills, two of which are above class. This is a non-negotiable requirement for every Tusker (ever), and as you don't meet that requirement, you can't join. Simple.

Every serious pvp corp will have some version of these requirements, and, being new characters, you will struggle to meet any of them. Even corps that cater to new pvpers (such as Agony Unleashed or the now defunct Blood Money Cartel) have pretty strict standards.

If you really want to join a top pvp corp, do some research. Figure out who you want to join and what there entry requirements are. Then work on meeting those requirements. In the mean time, hang out in their public channel (any serious corp will have one) and let the members get to know you. When the time is right, apply.


20% tax rate? No thanks. We like our ninja corp just fine.


See that's why you aren't accepted in corps, you always find something to whine about.

Good luck with your own corps, let me know when you are around ours space and I will form a small gang to get some good ISK kills.

And all the guys you call trolls are actually guys who learned stuff the hard way and are suggesting good things, that you are ignorant and always complain about these suggestions that's your own fault.


Killboard stats:

Alexis Prey: 7 losses - 0 kills (0 ISK won - 180 mil ISK lost)
Fortunea: NO record at all
Mei guoren: 4 losses - 0 kills (0 ISK won - 10 mil ISK lost)
zhong guoren: NO record at all

Good luck getting into a very hardcore PVP corp with that stats

---

Edit:

You want to PVP in pilgrim while you can't even clear lvl 2 and 3 misions:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=13152&find=unread

And found out how station docking mechanics work, happy to learn you how bubbling a station works, just undock your shiny Pilgrim and you will find out:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=13156&find=unread



Now, don't give snappy comebacks, was you with your 5mil SP (the highest of your clan) are still counted as a new pilot, so please join EVE Uni or another newb friendly corp to learn how EVE works before yelling here you are a great PvP pilot

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

Lady Go Diveher
Doomheim
#70 - 2011-09-22 11:25:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Go Diveher
Alexis Prey wrote:
We want to be ninjas. Not another Gank Squad. We want to base our tactics off of studying and monitoring the enemy and inputing the data into a program that I made myself for exactly our corp. If we were impatient, and so easily baited just for a kill, I'm sure this wouldn't work, but if we are willing to watch a hulk mine for 3 hours a day, for 2 days to get it's pattern down, and camp in front of a station, belt, or gate just documenting the everyday happenings, and patterns of our enemy, than I have no doubt that our enemy will be extremely annoyed with us regardless if we even get a single kill, and hopefully, we can achieve ultimate goal.


I'm assuming you're trying to steer this troll into a classic "AFK cloaker" whine, then?

Because, within a margin of error, there is a ZERO percent chance of a Hulk ever mining in null with a neut in local.

Ever.

I can write that program for you

10 Is hulk in POS?
20 Autofill: YES
30 GOTO 10

Also, why is corp tax relevent when you make all your isk from "making websites" and PLEX?

At least get your story straight, dude.
J'Poll
Perkone
Caldari State
#71 - 2011-09-22 11:32:06 UTC
Lady Go Diveher wrote:
Alexis Prey wrote:
We want to be ninjas. Not another Gank Squad. We want to base our tactics off of studying and monitoring the enemy and inputing the data into a program that I made myself for exactly our corp. If we were impatient, and so easily baited just for a kill, I'm sure this wouldn't work, but if we are willing to watch a hulk mine for 3 hours a day, for 2 days to get it's pattern down, and camp in front of a station, belt, or gate just documenting the everyday happenings, and patterns of our enemy, than I have no doubt that our enemy will be extremely annoyed with us regardless if we even get a single kill, and hopefully, we can achieve ultimate goal.


I'm assuming you're trying to steer this troll into a classic "AFK cloaker" whine, then?

Because, within a margin of error, there is a ZERO percent chance of a Hulk ever mining in null with a neut in local.

Ever.

I can write that program for you

10 Is hulk in POS?
20 Autofill: YES
30 GOTO 10

Also, why is corp tax relevent when you make all your isk from "making websites" and PLEX?

At least get your story straight, dude.



LOL, 9/10 for the snappy comeback.

Agree good luck getting patterns of Hulks in null-sec / low-sec for 2 days with 3 hours a day.

I can give you results now:

Low-sec: Hulk will stay docked in the closest station, player will do others stuff and let you camp station for hours
Null-sec: there are 2 choices.

1.) Hulk will be smiling and waving to you from the safety of any safepos, general rule in null-sec, DON'T mine when neuts are in local.
2.) Hulk will reship for his T2 fitted Drake and call in the alliance to help him, alliance will bubble all exit gates and camp them, mean while bunch of probers will probe your Pilgrim (and other ships out) and soon you see an entire fleet warp in on you

Then drones come out and your ship goes boom, if they slow enough with your pod you might see that and see them loot your wreck.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

Alexis Prey
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2011-09-22 12:07:59 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Lady Go Diveher wrote:
Alexis Prey wrote:
We want to be ninjas. Not another Gank Squad. We want to base our tactics off of studying and monitoring the enemy and inputing the data into a program that I made myself for exactly our corp. If we were impatient, and so easily baited just for a kill, I'm sure this wouldn't work, but if we are willing to watch a hulk mine for 3 hours a day, for 2 days to get it's pattern down, and camp in front of a station, belt, or gate just documenting the everyday happenings, and patterns of our enemy, than I have no doubt that our enemy will be extremely annoyed with us regardless if we even get a single kill, and hopefully, we can achieve ultimate goal.


I'm assuming you're trying to steer this troll into a classic "AFK cloaker" whine, then?

Because, within a margin of error, there is a ZERO percent chance of a Hulk ever mining in null with a neut in local.

Ever.

I can write that program for you

10 Is hulk in POS?
20 Autofill: YES
30 GOTO 10

Also, why is corp tax relevent when you make all your isk from "making websites" and PLEX?

At least get your story straight, dude.



LOL, 9/10 for the snappy comeback.

Agree good luck getting patterns of Hulks in null-sec / low-sec for 2 days with 3 hours a day.

I can give you results now:

Low-sec: Hulk will stay docked in the closest station, player will do others stuff and let you camp station for hours
Null-sec: there are 2 choices.

1.) Hulk will be smiling and waving to you from the safety of any safepos, general rule in null-sec, DON'T mine when neuts are in local.
2.) Hulk will reship for his T2 fitted Drake and call in the alliance to help him, alliance will bubble all exit gates and camp them, mean while bunch of probers will probe your Pilgrim (and other ships out) and soon you see an entire fleet warp in on you

Then drones come out and your ship goes boom, if they slow enough with your pod you might see that and see them loot your wreck.


Hmm, this is interesting. I'm going to ignore the flaming because that's not the direction I want this to go in. Yes I am asking how to use the build I have to do 2-3 missions, and yes I was asking how station rules work in 0.0. I'm a geek. I know like 6 programming languages. I one of those losers who really really love to study. So yes, I will be asking a lot of questions, and I'm sure my friends and I will make some mistaskes in null sec, but a couple years from now, if we're still playing, I expect things to be different, and I will be glad I asked all these questions.

Okay, so you say no hulk in low sec. You're right. I once had a miner character. I'm actually pretty experienced in mining, and I know people tend to bring covs out to null sec, or maybe macks? Not sure. Anyway, If neuts are in local, and miners will never go out while this happens, than doesn't this mean our work is cut out for us? If our priority is to drive the industry rating of the system down, than all we need to do is stay cloaked, and maintain a precence. Please understand that I know that we will never be as good as those pvp corps. But I think this system pirating type thing will work for us. That being said, I'm worried about the probe thing.

I envision a setup like this:

Prophecy 100km off a grav site cloaked.
Hound 100km off a asteroid belt OR gate cloaked.
Manticore same as hound
Pilgrim 100km off of station cloaked.

Now, if we are all cloaked simply monitoring that's going on, and I'm watching the station letting my friends know, and recording who is flying what ship, which direction the are going, etc, than there isn't really a huge worry about being killed. We can't be probed out... correct?

So as long as we sit there and maintain a presense in the system, the industrial rating should go down quickly.

What worries me is IF we can be probed out while cloaked.
J'Poll
Perkone
Caldari State
#73 - 2011-09-22 12:13:12 UTC
Alexis Prey wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
Lady Go Diveher wrote:
Alexis Prey wrote:
We want to be ninjas. Not another Gank Squad. We want to base our tactics off of studying and monitoring the enemy and inputing the data into a program that I made myself for exactly our corp. If we were impatient, and so easily baited just for a kill, I'm sure this wouldn't work, but if we are willing to watch a hulk mine for 3 hours a day, for 2 days to get it's pattern down, and camp in front of a station, belt, or gate just documenting the everyday happenings, and patterns of our enemy, than I have no doubt that our enemy will be extremely annoyed with us regardless if we even get a single kill, and hopefully, we can achieve ultimate goal.


I'm assuming you're trying to steer this troll into a classic "AFK cloaker" whine, then?

Because, within a margin of error, there is a ZERO percent chance of a Hulk ever mining in null with a neut in local.

Ever.

I can write that program for you

10 Is hulk in POS?
20 Autofill: YES
30 GOTO 10

Also, why is corp tax relevent when you make all your isk from "making websites" and PLEX?

At least get your story straight, dude.



LOL, 9/10 for the snappy comeback.

Agree good luck getting patterns of Hulks in null-sec / low-sec for 2 days with 3 hours a day.

I can give you results now:

Low-sec: Hulk will stay docked in the closest station, player will do others stuff and let you camp station for hours
Null-sec: there are 2 choices.

1.) Hulk will be smiling and waving to you from the safety of any safepos, general rule in null-sec, DON'T mine when neuts are in local.
2.) Hulk will reship for his T2 fitted Drake and call in the alliance to help him, alliance will bubble all exit gates and camp them, mean while bunch of probers will probe your Pilgrim (and other ships out) and soon you see an entire fleet warp in on you

Then drones come out and your ship goes boom, if they slow enough with your pod you might see that and see them loot your wreck.


Hmm, this is interesting. I'm going to ignore the flaming because that's not the direction I want this to go in. Yes I am asking how to use the build I have to do 2-3 missions, and yes I was asking how station rules work in 0.0. I'm a geek. I know like 6 programming languages. I one of those losers who really really love to study. So yes, I will be asking a lot of questions, and I'm sure my friends and I will make some mistaskes in null sec, but a couple years from now, if we're still playing, I expect things to be different, and I will be glad I asked all these questions.

Okay, so you say no hulk in low sec. You're right. I once had a miner character. I'm actually pretty experienced in mining, and I know people tend to bring covs out to null sec, or maybe macks? Not sure. Anyway, If neuts are in local, and miners will never go out while this happens, than doesn't this mean our work is cut out for us? If our priority is to drive the industry rating of the system down, than all we need to do is stay cloaked, and maintain a precence. Please understand that I know that we will never be as good as those pvp corps. But I think this system pirating type thing will work for us. That being said, I'm worried about the probe thing.

I envision a setup like this:

Prophecy 100km off a grav site cloaked.
Hound 100km off a asteroid belt OR gate cloaked.
Manticore same as hound
Pilgrim 100km off of station cloaked.

Now, if we are all cloaked simply monitoring that's going on, and I'm watching the station letting my friends know, and recording who is flying what ship, which direction the are going, etc, than there isn't really a huge worry about being killed. We can't be probed out... correct?

So as long as we sit there and maintain a presense in the system, the industrial rating should go down quickly.

What worries me is IF we can be probed out while cloaked.


You CAN'T be probed while holding cloak, but keep in mind that you can be auto-decloaked if someone flies within 2500m from you.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

Lady Go Diveher
Doomheim
#74 - 2011-09-22 12:28:20 UTC
Alexis Prey wrote:
Now, if we are all cloaked simply monitoring that's going on, and I'm watching the station letting my friends know, and recording who is flying what ship, which direction the are going, etc, than there isn't really a huge worry about being killed. We can't be probed out... correct?

So as long as we sit there and maintain a presense in the system, the industrial rating should go down quickly.

What worries me is IF we can be probed out while cloaked.


If your "grand plan" is to lower the Industrial index of one system (why, I have no idea) then you can achieve this by AFK cloaking in any ship you like.
Alexis Prey
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2011-09-22 12:48:14 UTC
Lady Go Diveher wrote:
Alexis Prey wrote:
Now, if we are all cloaked simply monitoring that's going on, and I'm watching the station letting my friends know, and recording who is flying what ship, which direction the are going, etc, than there isn't really a huge worry about being killed. We can't be probed out... correct?

So as long as we sit there and maintain a presense in the system, the industrial rating should go down quickly.

What worries me is IF we can be probed out while cloaked.


If your "grand plan" is to lower the Industrial index of one system (why, I have no idea) then you can achieve this by AFK cloaking in any ship you like.



If the industrial rating goes down, the ores available to the alliance/corp will have less worth. This means they will begin to lose more money. They don't want to lose money-- so they will be more likely to pay us.

Basicly we are taking the system for ransom.
Alexis Prey
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2011-09-22 12:48:56 UTC
Alexis Prey wrote:
Lady Go Diveher wrote:
[quote=Alexis Prey]Now, if we are all cloaked simply monitoring that's going on, and I'm watching the station letting my friends know, and recording who is flying what ship, which direction the are going, etc, than there isn't really a huge worry about being killed. We can't be probed out... correct?

So as long as we sit there and maintain a presense in the system, the industrial rating should go down quickly.

What worries me is IF we can be probed out while cloaked.


If your "grand plan" is to lower the Industrial index of one system (why, I have no idea) then you can achieve this by AFK cloaking in any ship you like.



If the industrial rating goes down, the ores available to the alliance/corp will have less worth. This means they will begin to lose more money. They don't want to lose money-- so they will be more likely to pay us-- OR which ever corp hired us as mercs to prey on them will be happy with us because the corp who we are pirating will be more likely to find another place to run their ops.

Basicly we are taking the system for ransom.
foksieloy
Rockets ponies and rainbows
#77 - 2011-09-22 12:53:50 UTC
Alexis Prey wrote:
Basicly we are taking the system for ransom.


AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA *gasp* HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA *whiz* AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA *gasp* HAHAHAHAHAHA...

*so beautiful*

Disclaimer: I do not actually play this game, I just forum warrior.

Lady Go Diveher
Doomheim
#78 - 2011-09-22 13:08:43 UTC
Alexis Prey wrote:
If the industrial rating goes down, the ores available to the alliance/corp will have less worth. This means they will begin to lose more money. They don't want to lose money-- so they will be more likely to pay us-- OR which ever corp hired us as mercs to prey on them will be happy with us because the corp who we are pirating will be more likely to find another place to run their ops.

Basicly we are taking the system for ransom.


a) The industrial rating has **** all to do with anything, except as an indicator of how much ore is mined

b) I actually snorted coffee at this post.
Gregor Palter
#79 - 2011-09-22 13:33:27 UTC
This thread couldn't have been more weird if I was on LSD, it's such a hilarious train wreck.

Excuses are the refuge of the weak.

Alexis Prey
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2011-09-22 14:33:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Alexis Prey
Ya, if they are a Indy IV or V system, than they mine a lot I imagine. This means that if we stop them from mining, we are pushing their cash cow for miners away from the home system. This means they will have a more difficult time making Titans, or w.e else top alliances make. If we tell them that we will not leave until they pay us X amount of money, well basicly they will lose money if the don't pay us.

In that sense, we are pirating just as a pirate would a ship, but instead of taking a ship, we are taking the system.

And wow you guys claim that we're trolls, but if you see something so wrong with our idea, than please tell us, don't sit there and laugh... cuz ur the ones being trolls atm