Player Features and Ideas Discussion

This is all a horrible misunderstanding.

Everyone acknowledges EVE is a sandbox, where multiple play styles come together.

Well, meet religion. Orthodox Zen Cloakists, who always say,"That with the greatest value, cannot be seen by mortal eye..."

Maybe you have not noticed, but for many ships speed is terribly reduced when you engage a cloak. Add to that, the terrible burden, (for most ships), of not being able to warp cloaked.

The ones you hurtfully call AFK Cloakers, are, in fact, purists. They are trying to travel around the system in cloaked vessels peacefully, but due to game restrictions, they must do so at an incredibly slow speed. They cannot even warp, in the majority of ships, without decloaking. And they refuse to do that, on religious principles of the divine cloak.

Funny because i have yet to die to cloaker.

But what better can you expect from goon.

The problem nobody seems to understand is that just because he is called an "AFK cloaker" doesn't mean he is. He could very well be at his keyboard with a cyno ready to hotdrop your ass. The problem is that you have no way of knowing if he is actually there or not and the only way to find out is go out there and hope you don't get hotdropped. This is creating a false threat just like the OP stated. This illusion of a threat whether it is real or not is still done while AFK and yeilds an advantage in that you are preventing others from safely ratting. Whether the threat is actually there or not is irrellevant! You are effecting the game without being at your keyboard. THAT is the problem. I still don't expect anybody to understand this. But regardless I support the idea of a way to remove the invulnerability in cloaks.

It is difficult to take seriously any request to change cloaking, that does not also change local. Your argument comes across as clearly biased, as the effect would not result in balance.

In specific:
It is not that cloaks should not change, but this stalemate effect is countering the free intel being given out by local.

We have right now, a case of: "I know you are there, but I cannot find you"
(Absolute presence awareness countered by absolute location concealment)

You cannot change one side without the other, and still have balance.

I'll support a mechanic to probe down cloaked ships when local chat gets transformed into an actual intel tool.

In other words, when I can ambiguously pass through a system, so you don't know who is passing through system until you actively gather intel on them, then you can have a tool to probe down afk cloakers.

Caveats:
-- I'll surrender the information that you know a ship entered system quickly, you just don't get to know whom until you "scan" them.
-- the ability to scan down a cloaked ship should NOT give you the ability to hinder cloaky ships from traversing a system.

The threat of suicide ganking is always there to Hulk pilots. The Hulk pilots have no way to remove the threat. Flying around in a thrasher in an ice field is the same thing. I would advocate no change, "eve is supposed to be dangerous" and all. But if there were changes in nullsec, it would only be fair to remove suicide ganking first because high sec is supposed to be safer than no sec.

No, everyone understands that.

What we don't understand is why people are so pathologically incapable of protecting themselves in spite of all the tools at their disposal, that a single name in local is enough to send them running for the hills. The AFK cloaker can't do anything — the “victim” is the only one doing anything and if he doesn't like what he's doing, he can simply stop doing it.

No. What's preventing those people from ratting safely (and we're skipping past the part where I ask you why on earth they should be free to do that) is that they refuse to create any safety for themselves. The AFK cloaker is not a factor in that lack of safety — it's all down to the incompetence of the ratter.

AFK cloaking is not a problem. Ratters' unwillingness to solve their own insecurity is a problem. This is why the ultimate solution to “AFK cloaking” — the removal of local — is so antithetical to the wishes of those ratters, even though it should be right up their alley.

Yes it is. In particular, if it's not dangerous for the cloaker, then it's completely safe for the ratter too, so he has zero grounds for complaining.

And I never said there is anything wrong with projecting a threat to a system or even denial of resources by using cloaks. I was responding to Tippia's claim that AFK cloakers pose no threat. What I don't agree with is being able to do so without any risk or ability to bring non-consensual PVP to the AFK cloaker.

You see, you want to be able to terrorize, choose, and pick your targets 100% on your terms. You want to be able to kill those miners and ratters because they should be exposed to danger and Eve isn't supposed to be safe. You'll spew a million catch phrases about how Eve is supposed to be cruel. But you refuse and even cry when someone suggests an ability to bring non-consensual PVP to you.

AGAIN, I have ZERO problems with you being able to project a threat to others while in space. But do it by paying attention AT. THE. KEYBOARD. Or die like a careless miner, ratter, or someone standing idly in space would die.

Remove Local Chat Intel!

Why should a suicide ganker be safe in high sec? You know he's patrolling belts looking for hulks. Why can't we kill him?