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Nerf AFK cloakers
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JitaPriceChecker2
Doomheim
#41 - 2012-03-04 12:55:40 UTC
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:


Go ahead, project your danger. But be at the keyboard like everyone else. Or die, like everyone else.



Finally.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#42 - 2012-03-04 13:08:28 UTC
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
And who is there to remember the AFK cloakers that they themselves are not in empire anymore?
The rest of the guys in the system.

Dealing with an AFK cloaker is simple: you shoot him.
Quote:
Go ahead, project your danger. But be at the keyboard like everyone else. Or die, like everyone else.
Good news: if he's not at his keyboard (and therefore not an AFK cloaker), he can't project any danger. Problem solved before it even existed.
Mirrodin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2012-03-04 13:15:01 UTC
How do you know he's AFK? How do you know any cloaked player is away from the keyboard? Just because he's not attacking you?

You have no way of knowing how any cloakers in your ratting system are AFK, I spend 8-10 hours looking for targets all the time in enemy systems :)
Maggeridon Thoraz
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#44 - 2012-03-04 13:18:15 UTC
unfortunatly ccp cannot nerf people open such threads
MadMuppet
Critical Mass Inc
#45 - 2012-03-04 13:28:40 UTC  |  Edited by: MadMuppet
JitaPriceChecker2 wrote:
They generate false intel while not playing the game.

.


False intel? What do you mean? You know there is someone in the system, therefore the condition is not false. Does it make people paranoid? Yes. Is it false? No. Saying that they are not playing the game is false, they are logged in and paying to do the activity they want to in the sandbox. If that is to sit in one spot for hours on end that is their choice. There are things they can be doing while cloaked that do not directly appear to you in space, like say, gathering intel on who comes and goes in the system.

This message brought to you by Experience(tm). When common sense fails you, experience will come to the rescue. Experience(tm) from the makers of CONCORD.

"If you are part of the problem, you will be nerfed." -MadMuppet
Chatha Gathii
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#46 - 2012-03-04 13:29:57 UTC
Maggeridon Thoraz wrote:
unfortunatly ccp cannot nerf people open such threads

Fortunately CCP don't have to -- As many of the posts in these threads demonstrate, these players have an in-built tendency to nerf themselves.
Asudem
Black Spear.
#47 - 2012-03-04 14:20:52 UTC
Another cry baby thread about afk cloakers? Oh man, please stop trolling!
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#48 - 2012-03-04 14:54:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
JitaPriceChecker2 wrote:
They generate false intel while not playing the game.

Not playing the game should not be rewarded.


no, afk cloakers are right, exactly for denying you the intel. nothing wrong with this.

If not playing the game should not be rewarded, I suggest you asking CCP for stopping you getting any SP when offline or afk, all right? As you did that, come back here later and suggest nerfing afk cloakers again.

thxbai
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#49 - 2012-03-04 15:37:24 UTC
Tippia wrote:
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
And who is there to remember the AFK cloakers that they themselves are not in empire anymore?
The rest of the guys in the system.

Except they can't. There is no projecting danger to someone that plays AFK cloaking games. There is only waiting until the cloaker decides when to engage. In fact, they choose how, when, and where. Sure, a system can choose not to mine, PVE, and completely lock down the system from all PVE activities. They can also organize parties to remain vigilant and prepared. But the AFK cloaker need not to put ONE OUNCE of effort to keep himself safe. In fact, while EVERYONE ELSE remains vigilant and ready (again, as they should) the cloaker can simply remain in space projecting danger while also being able to take off for school, work, or simply enjoy an afternoon of delight away from the keyboard. They can do this for days, weeks, months, all the mean while the locals themselves remain prepared and vigilant, again, as they should. I would love to be able to bring unconsensual PVP to these AFK cloakers the same way they bring unconsensual PVP to miners and ratters. But alas, they only want this to be a one-way street in their favor.

Tippia wrote:
Dealing with an AFK cloaker is simple: you shoot him.

Except you can only shoot them when the AFK cloaker decides when and where you can shoot him. You "deal" with (or PVP) an AFK cloaker when his PVP flag is ticked on. See my comment above. That is not Eve.
Tippa wrote:
Quote:
Go ahead, project your danger. But be at the keyboard like everyone else. Or die, like everyone else.
Good news: if he's not at his keyboard (and therefore not an AFK cloaker), he can't project any danger. Problem solved before it even existed.
The threat an AFK cloaker brings is there, whether he's AFK or not. And you know this. When someone puts a gun to your face without you knowing whether it's loaded or not, doesn't mean there is no threat. The threat is still being projected and you must act as if you are in danger.

Also, please stop playing on the literal definition of AFK cloaking. AFK cloaking is a technique and does not literally imply that a cloaker is AFK 100% of his time. You know this isn't what is meant. It escapes me why people continue to spout this as a defense to AFK-cloaking when is as ******** as claiming that "watch dog" is just a dog that watches.

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#50 - 2012-03-04 23:41:13 UTC
Welcome back to the forums.

While you were gone, nothing changed. This is still a stupid idea.
Serge Bastana
GWA Corp
#51 - 2012-03-05 02:34:16 UTC
JitaPriceChecker2 wrote:

Forcing the ratter to use his brain(or dock) is a successful change in a behavior via no effort.



Sorry that you might actually have to think, as hard as it may be for some. God forbid that you should actually have to engage brain cells at all.

You're complaining about the cloaker changing your behaviour in game, but you're wanting to change theirs to suit you.

WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place...

Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#52 - 2012-03-05 06:51:04 UTC
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
The threat an AFK cloaker brings is there, whether he's AFK or not. And you know this. When someone puts a gun to your face without you knowing whether it's loaded or not, doesn't mean there is no threat. The threat is still being projected and you must act as if you are in danger.


Lets change your metaphor around a bit because I don't think that it's entirely fitting for the situation of AFK Cloaking.

First Example: Snipers are deployed to combat zones to sit and wait, motionless. The watch and wait and listen sometimes for days, slowly moving and analyzing. They sleep too, a form of being AFK I guess... but thats not the point, the point is that the Sniper gets to chose there target, when they engage the target, and where they engage the target from. The enemy doesn't know that the sniper is there and must act like he is there at all times when in a warzone. In Eve you are at least given a chance to react because you know when somebody is in your territory that you don't like.

Do you think that we should limit the use of snipers because it is unfair to the enemy? Do you think that it's unfair that the enemy uses snipers on us?

Second example: The ambush is possibly the oldest tactic in human exhistance because face it, as animals we aren't really that strong, fast, or have natural weapons. So humans developed tactics, the simplist one is the ambush. This in Eve is called the hotdrop. Much preparation is made to prevent ambushes in combat zones, but not so in Eve all you have to do is have a scout looking at local to tell you if it's clear or not, no patrols needed, no constant intel gathering, it just seems to easy.

The fix to afk cloaking is tactics not game mechanics, if you really want to level the field, move local to delayed mode and then force the cloaker to gather intel about his target before engagement. The people against local modification don't realize that it'll actually help them more than hinder them, but they don't want to put in the effort to make it work.

RL tactics work in Eve, and they should work in Eve. Like I've always said, putting local on delayed will eliminate the afk cloaking 'problem' and turn 0.0 back into the high risk environment that it should be.

MMOs come and go, but Eve remains.  -Garresh-
Wolodymyr
Breaking Ambitions
#53 - 2012-03-05 07:16:27 UTC
Gerrick Palivorn wrote:
Lets change your metaphor around a bit because I don't think that it's entirely fitting for the situation of AFK Cloaking.

First Example: Snipers are deployed to combat zones to sit and wait, motionless.

Alright let's go with the sniper metaphor then. Let's say you are living in your little nullsec village and BANG someone gets popped. You would at least have the option of raising some alarms and getting everyone to search the hills to try and find the sniper.

The problem with a cloaking device is that it is this magical "avoid pvp button" that you can press in an off grid safe spot and be perfectly 100% safe.

Eve is a great game because of how dangerous it is. Even in space that is labeled as "High Security Space" you can still die in a fire. But for some reason there is a ship mod that allows you to fly into the most dangerous solar system you can find, warp off somewhere, cloak up, and be so immune to danger that you can just leave your computer for hours.

I honestly think PoCo based sov is a good idea https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1417544
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#54 - 2012-03-05 07:47:05 UTC
JitaPriceChecker2 wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:


Oh how I wish CCP got them all.

Also grow a spine.


You sir are lacking fundamental logic skill. I never said ratting should be allowed in a complete safety. As for me CCP could even remove local, that would ifx the problem i am describing also.




I haven't read all this thread. There's no point. It's a thread like many others all started by a small group of whining people who don't have a clue.

What is the difference between having local and not having local where having an AFK cloaker in system is concerned? The difference is that with no local you're unaware of the cloaked ship in system. It's a fear thing. If you can see it, you're afraid of it. If you can't see it you're not aware it's there and therefore you're not afraid of it. Simples.

Or not simples. That's like the allegorical ostrich who puts his head in the sand to avoid predators. He thinks that just because he can't see them they can't hurt him. Well, that's complete rubbish. They can and if you remove local a lot more cloakers will stop being AFK and will start killing you. I know I will!

Oh, and yeah, post with your main. I know you would if it wasn't that you've already used your main to post the same tired rubbish already. But hell, use your main anyway. Grow a spine.

AFK cloakers are not the issue. Whining idiots are. Grow a spine.

Just in case you've missed the point here; stop whining and grow a spine.
Asudem
Black Spear.
#55 - 2012-03-05 07:55:05 UTC
While you are cloaked you cannot use any module without risking your "invulnerability" and so you dont earn any isk on your own. No risk, no isk. Besides, docking is also a feature to avoid pvp. Shall we nerf / remove stations now?
JitaPriceChecker2
Doomheim
#56 - 2012-03-05 09:47:19 UTC  |  Edited by: JitaPriceChecker2
Serge Bastana wrote:


You're complaining about the cloaker changing your behaviour in game, but you're wanting to change theirs to suit you.


If their behavior is going for pizza and sitting cloaked in system and generating false intel then yes.

If they are inactive they should vanish from local. Problem solved.
Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#57 - 2012-03-05 10:10:31 UTC
Wolodymyr wrote:
Eve is a great game because of how dangerous it is. Even in space that is labeled as "High Security Space" you can still die in a fire. But for some reason there is a ship mod that allows you to fly into the most dangerous solar system you can find, warp off somewhere, cloak up, and be so immune to danger that you can just leave your computer for hours.


Hmmm... I could say the exact same thing about stations and POS's. As long as these exhist and function as a way to be immune to whatever is happening in the game, I will always support the option for people to be able to cloak up and use the latrine, and yes that includes #2

MMOs come and go, but Eve remains.  -Garresh-
Asudem
Black Spear.
#58 - 2012-03-05 10:28:49 UTC
JitaPriceChecker2 wrote:
Serge Bastana wrote:


You're complaining about the cloaker changing your behaviour in game, but you're wanting to change theirs to suit you.


If their behavior is going for pizza and sitting cloaked in system and generating false intel then yes.

If they are inactive they should vanish from local. Problem solved.



There is no problem to solve at all. If you have a problem with that, grab you balls and play hello kitty or whatever you play in the kindergarten.
Herold Oldtimer
State War Academy
Caldari State
#59 - 2012-03-05 11:05:55 UTC
I once wanted to have some fun pvp'ing against this one cloaker that was in the same system as me. went out in a decent ship, flew to a neutral location and challenged him to a fight. Funny thing though was that the guy avoided me, wouldn't even talk to me, thought that is understandable. Us being enemies and all. He had no problem attacking a poor individual that had no way of fighting back though, but as soon as I appeared he would hightail it back to wherever he came from.

Why would this grizzled hardcore pvp monster shy away from pvp? He was even sporting a cloak module on his ship. And from what I know, the hardest of them all fight with a cloak module, right?
Asudem
Black Spear.
#60 - 2012-03-05 11:27:33 UTC
Herold Oldtimer wrote:
I once wanted to have some fun pvp'ing against this one cloaker that was in the same system as me. went out in a decent ship, flew to a neutral location and challenged him to a fight. Funny thing though was that the guy avoided me, wouldn't even talk to me, thought that is understandable. Us being enemies and all. He had no problem attacking a poor individual that had no way of fighting back though, but as soon as I appeared he would hightail it back to wherever he came from.

Why would this grizzled hardcore pvp monster shy away from pvp? He was even sporting a cloak module on his ship. And from what I know, the hardest of them all fight with a cloak module, right?


If you ask me, those guys are small scale PVPer which cant take on anything alone that has guns at all. Its the same kind of pilots which overrun indu corp in HSec wars with a high amount of numbres and firepower. A fair 1v1 for them is a Armageddon vs. Iteron Mark III - just an extreme example.