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2M Sp Pilot- Help me decide Minmatar or Caldari
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Eso Es
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-03-02 05:26:22 UTC
Ill try to keep this as brief as possible: I am in a Hi Sec PvP corp, so I get to do a good amount of small gang warfare (when our targets come out to play ofc). I had heard a lot of great thigns about the Rifter, so I started Minmatar. I've since trained up to BCs, but a friend convinced me to also train Caldari to have access to Drakes for making ISK in our war down times. The problem I am now presented with is that I am gearing up to begin training T2 weapons and tank as my ancillary skills are all now more or less ready (cap skills, powergrid, overheat etc). I have heard convincing arguments for both sides, projectiles are more versatile than missiles, ECM is OP and broken and I should fly it etc. My mid term goal is to get into WH space, probably with stealth bombers to do some ganking, and supposedly the Caldari bomber is better than Minnie (Kin dmg vs Expl dmg and an additional midslot) but man, really I cant decide. Sway me with your arguments community, and maybe 1 day I'll return the favor and blow you up with the ship you put me in ;)

Important Edit: I'm less than a month old (1.4M SPs)
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#2 - 2012-03-02 06:05:58 UTC
Honestly, there's no bad choice, just pick the one you enjoy flying the most. All races have lots of good ships and some crappy ones too; what is best depends mostly on what ships you enjoy flying (and to a lesser extent on your preferred gameplay style). Personally, I can fly all sub-cap T1 ships (except some Industrial ships, I only have one race of those to 5) and various T2 ships from all races and haven't regretted training any of it; I use all of them for various things.

There's no wrong answer, just fly whatever sounds most interesting to you.
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2012-03-02 06:53:48 UTC
like mx says, go for what turns you on right now ... there's no wrong answer.

Eventually, if you hang with eve, you will find yourself most likely training them both and prolly others also.

in short term if you're likely to be mission running then caldari has some benefits, but i spent most of my early mission running in minnie ships only and never really dicovered the virtue of missiles and humungashields until i moved to w-space ... but I'm a slow learner.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.
Ikeo58
Noir.
Shadow Cartel
#4 - 2012-03-02 10:41:45 UTC
Also your decision is not final, I PVP alot in caldari ships, Drake Falcon and raven etc but i have now moved to Armarr (Lasers FTW). Once you get your core ship skills up its easy to change over with the help of Nueral remaps. Just use them wisely!!

Missiles are good steady DPS
Autocannons and Artillery are great for Cap
Blasters since the boost are now decent
Rails are good for Missions
And lasers are Great for Rainbows
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
#5 - 2012-03-02 11:06:36 UTC
Eso Es wrote:
Ill try to keep this as brief as possible: I am in a Hi Sec PvP corp, so I get to do a good amount of small gang warfare (when our targets come out to play ofc). I had heard a lot of great thigns about the Rifter, so I started Minmatar. I've since trained up to BCs, but a friend convinced me to also train Caldari to have access to Drakes for making ISK in our war down times. The problem I am now presented with is that I am gearing up to begin training T2 weapons and tank as my ancillary skills are all now more or less ready (cap skills, powergrid, overheat etc). I have heard convincing arguments for both sides, projectiles are more versatile than missiles, ECM is OP and broken and I should fly it etc. My mid term goal is to get into WH space, probably with stealth bombers to do some ganking, and supposedly the Caldari bomber is better than Minnie (Kin dmg vs Expl dmg and an additional midslot) but man, really I cant decide. Sway me with your arguments community, and maybe 1 day I'll return the favor and blow you up with the ship you put me in ;)

Important Edit: I'm less than a month old (1.4M SPs)


Eventually you'll want to do both.

Short term, what I hear you saying is that you do station ganking in high-sec and a little PVE to make money.

For this combination I would recommend the Minmatar ships. You'll want to train a Tempest because it has a very high initial strike (alpha) which is what you need for shooting war targets down before they re-dock. A tempest can literally kill a T1 hauler with one shot, which is a powerful thing to have at your disposal for high-sec station ganking.

Also, the hurricane is a good battlecruiser for both PVP and PVE (isk making) to a point and at the level you're at right now you won't need a Drake for killing some rats. Finally, as you pointed out the rifter is probably the best T1 tackle ship in the game but the rupture, scimitar, rapier and the vagabond are also in the minmatar skill-tree and they are powerful PVP ships as well. If PVP is what you want to do and PVE is just a side-thing then you really can't go wrong with Minmatar as a race.

On the long term most players end up cross training to use "best of breed" ships for various endeavors but I wouldn't start cross training too soon or you'll end up being crappy at everything instead of good at one thing. Get your Minmatar skills up, especially gunnery, and when you can use the T2 guns and have your underlying "core" skills up to level 3 or 4 .. THEN start thinking about cross training.

T-
Salcon Cliff
Zephyr Corp
#6 - 2012-03-02 14:01:32 UTC
I like speed, so Minmatar. It may not be best for a lot of situations, but at least I will be moving fast while I die. Big smile
Fidelium Mortis
Minor Major Miners LLC
#7 - 2012-03-02 14:46:09 UTC
For the most part, training caldari will be less intensive SP wise in the early running to fit an effective ship especially if you go with a missile boat. Either way, be sure to concentrate on specializing early on, with a focus on 1 or 2 ships that you can fly well (a frig and BC is a good start). Use these ships as a backbone for future PvP while you skill up.

ICRS - Intergalactic Certified Rocket Surgeon
Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#8 - 2012-03-02 14:50:54 UTC
Caldari based on what you have said would probably be a better fit for you. Good Luck!

nom nom
Oxylan
Blood Fanatics
#9 - 2012-03-02 15:29:17 UTC
I have alt with caldari and minmatar ships, some skills are disigned for both rases, like enginering.... you can use it on caldari and even minmatar ship becuse meny minmatar ships are designed for shield tank or shiled bufor + speed like hurrikane, second good thing both rases got logistic who transfer shield and both may use shield bufor.

I think both rases are good in pvp but they have difirent roles, personaly i love falcon rook on my alt, and while i want non ew combat i swich to typhoon with t2 torps, hurrikane, or minmatar recons.

Belive me or not, after curple month you may use both rases and have a lot fun, is your choise.

If it bleed we can kill it.
Ganjjabeard
Black Vanguard Ops
#10 - 2012-03-02 17:08:29 UTC
Eso Es wrote:
Ill try to keep this as brief as possible: I am in a Hi Sec PvP corp, so I get to do a good amount of small gang warfare (when our targets come out to play ofc). I had heard a lot of great thigns about the Rifter, so I started Minmatar. I've since trained up to BCs, but a friend convinced me to also train Caldari to have access to Drakes for making ISK in our war down times. The problem I am now presented with is that I am gearing up to begin training T2 weapons and tank as my ancillary skills are all now more or less ready (cap skills, powergrid, overheat etc). I have heard convincing arguments for both sides, projectiles are more versatile than missiles, ECM is OP and broken and I should fly it etc. My mid term goal is to get into WH space, probably with stealth bombers to do some ganking, and supposedly the Caldari bomber is better than Minnie (Kin dmg vs Expl dmg and an additional midslot) but man, really I cant decide. Sway me with your arguments community, and maybe 1 day I'll return the favor and blow you up with the ship you put me in ;)

Important Edit: I'm less than a month old (1.4M SPs)



i was pretty much in the same boat as you a little while back (im up to about 16mil sp now) but i was faced with the same choice to make, caldari or minmitar. at first i chose caldari because they use missiles and rockets etc, which are good because you dont need to worry about transversal velocity with missiles. transversal velocity comes in to play when u fly minmitar because you are using projectile weapons. personally i chose minmitar over caldari (as i am now training to be able to fly and use canes, and other projectile minmitar ships) somebody in an earlier post said something about none of these choices being a wrong or bad choice because each can be countered and has its strengths and weaknesses, it all comes down to how much you enjoy each one. i dont like lasers stuff so i dont use them or ships that have bonuses to them because my skillset is not good for it (yet) so yea when it comes down to it its all about what you like to do. even though i am caldari and have alot of caldari missile skills, i switched to minmitar and projectile skills because its more fun (imo)

GET IN THE VAN
Super Chair
Project Cerberus
Templis CALSF
#11 - 2012-03-02 17:27:33 UTC
I'd really say go for the caldari. Drake, Cormorant, Caracal, Moa, Naga, Tengu, and Rokh are really good ships for PvP. You can also use the tengu/drake to make iskies.
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
#12 - 2012-03-02 18:05:53 UTC
Ganjjabeard wrote:


i was pretty much in the same boat as you a little while back (im up to about 16mil sp now) but i was faced with the same choice to make, caldari or minmitar. at first i chose caldari because they use missiles and rockets etc, which are good because you dont need to worry about transversal velocity with missiles.


My first character, who now has about 75mil skill points was initially Amarr spec'd. I *loved* the harbinger as a pvp ship because you could go into battle balls-deep and either (a) win or (b) make the other guy run away. For solo and small gang PVP it's a brilliant ship and I miss being able to fly it.

My second character (who I still have) was originally pure Gallente spec and I discovered that for low-sec the Myrmidon is pretty much (literally) unbeatable. At short range (under 60km) it can both tank AND gank at about 500dps which makes it unique among battle cruisers. It's the only T1 BC that has a good chance of killing a cynabal and the only T1 battle cruiser that can tank (low-sec) gate guns without making compromises. I once made 356 kills in one month in low-sec using only this ship.

My main now can fly (and fit) everything BS and smaller (T1 and T2) including recon-5, BC-5, Logi-5 and can fly several ships with all skills maxed out. ...... when I roam solo in low-sec with this charactger... guess what ship I take?

A blackbird.

My other character, who only has about 20mil skill points and can only fly a few ships like a boss does what he does best.... Minmatar. He's a vagabond/loki/rapier specialist and terrorizes low-sec (and null-sec) killing carebears and mission runners.

I get more "engagements" with the blackbird (people assume) but I make a LOT more kills with the vagabond.....

T-
Darthewok
Perkone
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-03-02 18:26:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Darthewok
Minmatar gives you a lot more skills that are applicable across races, as well as a very versatile range of viable ships.

That said, Caldari has great ships too, just a more narrow list.
Though they make up for that by missiles being easymode in PVE.

CAVEAT RICHARDUS VOLVERE - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0
Diablo Ex
Nocturne Holdings
#14 - 2012-03-02 19:30:47 UTC
THE most important thing for any young pilot to focus upon is the Core Skills set. So often I have seen pilots train up the "obvious" PvP skills, only to find out that fitting those T2 modules onto their ship and/or getting the most out of those modules takes the less appealing, more "mundane" skills like Engineering V, or Mechanic V.

For a Caldari Missile pilot, my advice has always been to train your Core and Support skills and get them out of the way as early as you can. There is nothing like having a 25 mil SP Pilot that can use T2 Cruise Missiles, but can only fit 4 on a Raven, and can only wish they could mount a T2 XLarge Shield Booster. Becoming a PvP Ace takes time, training, and a solid foundation. Build that foundation first, and then you can add on very quickly later.

...

Diablo Ex Machina - "I'm not here to fix your problem"
Ganjjabeard
Black Vanguard Ops
#15 - 2012-03-02 20:31:25 UTC
Diablo Ex wrote:
THE most important thing for any young pilot to focus upon is the Core Skills set. So often I have seen pilots train up the "obvious" PvP skills, only to find out that fitting those T2 modules onto their ship and/or getting the most out of those modules takes the less appealing, more "mundane" skills like Engineering V, or Mechanic V.

For a Caldari Missile pilot, my advice has always been to train your Core and Support skills and get them out of the way as early as you can. There is nothing like having a 25 mil SP Pilot that can use T2 Cruise Missiles, but can only fit 4 on a Raven, and can only wish they could mount a T2 XLarge Shield Booster. Becoming a PvP Ace takes time, training, and a solid foundation. Build that foundation first, and then you can add on very quickly later.

...



just out of curiosity, under the info window for ships, if you see there is a recommended tab, it shows which core certs you should have to be able to efficiently fly the ship in question. is that something players should follow? i see sometimes when i want to fly a ship and i look under recommended and i see certs for which most of them are completed but not all of them to 5 maybe 4 and rarely 3. is it a good rule of thumb to decide you can fly a ship efficiently if you have trained up the skills in the certs for the ship?

GET IN THE VAN
Salcon Cliff
Zephyr Corp
#16 - 2012-03-02 21:07:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Salcon Cliff
No, they certs kind of indicate what skills you should be focuses on, but just because you did not get the last skill to finish two or three certs does not mean you should not fly it. It might be an indirect indicator of how well you can fly it.

For example, I have an alt that flies a Vaga pretty effectively. He is missing two certs - one because he does not have multitasking (I just have never bought it) and one because he does not have Shield Management V (I have historically flown armor tankers).

I *should* train the SM V (I am currently at IV), and probably will at some point, but really, the Vaga speed tanks way more than shield tanks and I have not really missed the 5% and can never recall a situation where it would have made the difference between winning/losing/escaping. The multitasking is a bit silly, imho....if there are more targets out there than I can lock, my Vaga should be elsewhere.
Darthewok
Perkone
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-03-02 23:04:13 UTC
Yeah the multitasking requirement for the certs tends to be a bit redundant.
Apart from that though, certs are not too bad a guideline.
I was skeptical of them when they first came out, but after using them, they are more or less what you need, save for some modifications here and there.

CAVEAT RICHARDUS VOLVERE - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
Ghost Legion.
#18 - 2012-03-03 05:50:58 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Kreul Intentions
*snip*

Stay on Topic.

Thank you,
Kreul Intentions

Don't ask about Italics, just tilt your head.
Nyla Skin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-03-03 11:01:27 UTC
I would recommend learning both and not stressing out while doing so. Learn first what you need right this moment.

In after the lock :P   - CCP Falcon www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies
Diablo Ex
Nocturne Holdings
#20 - 2012-03-03 17:52:43 UTC
Ganjjabeard wrote:


just out of curiosity, under the info window for ships, if you see there is a recommended tab, it shows which core certs you should have to be able to efficiently fly the ship in question. is that something players should follow? i see sometimes when i want to fly a ship and i look under recommended and i see certs for which most of them are completed but not all of them to 5 maybe 4 and rarely 3. is it a good rule of thumb to decide you can fly a ship efficiently if you have trained up the skills in the certs for the ship?


Those certification skills are the "recommended" skills to get the most out of that particular ship filling it's stated role. What I'm addressing are the "Core Skills" which are not necessarily parcular to a specific ship or type, but are universal to all ship classes. They are listed in the certification planner as the Core Certifications. They in my opinion have become even more necessary now that CCP has removed the Learning Skills. Most players that I have come across that are struggling with PvP, are having trouble because they are attempting to fly "Fail Fits" in combat. The primary reason they are using "Fail Fits" are because they lack the core skills needed to mount better mods, and are trying to make do with what they can use.

Just like computer video games, EvE ships have both "minimum requirements" and "recommended requirements". The prerequisite skills listed for ships and ship modules are for the "minimum requirements", but it takes training the Core Skill sets to gain the optimum performance out of your ship or ship module. You can quickly go up the skill ladder to Large Hybred Guns for example and make do using T1 mods, but without your core skills in Cap, or in Shield/Armor tanking, or Navigation you are just another slow moving glass cannon with low DPS... and it doesn't matter what race type you are using.

Diablo Ex Machina - "I'm not here to fix your problem"
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