These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
123Next pageLast page
 

CCP - Reality Check

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Seleene
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
#1 - 2011-09-21 18:55:35 UTC
A couple weeks ago, I published a blog that's gotten a bit of attention. Today it was suggested that I toss it up here in General Discussion so it's not lost in the darkness of Jita Park. I've had quite a few EVEmails sent to me in the past week and I've done my best to answer them.

So, for those that missed it, I want to make clear my thoughts on the current state of EVE and my mindset going forward as a CSM member.

Reality Check

Have a read and think about where EVE is and where you want it to be.

2004-2008: Mercenary Coalition Boss

2007-2010: CCP Game Designer | 2011-2013: CSM6 Delegate & CSM7 Chairman

2011-2015: Pandemic Legionnaire

2015- : Mercenary Coalition Boss

Follow Seleene on Twitter!
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2011-09-21 19:37:57 UTC
I have a feeling that the "revolution" passed already and atm people are on cautiously positive mood waiting for CCP's next (and future) moves hoping that failtrain has really returned to track again.

Time will tell... actions will shape the future.

Anyways well written blog - CSM members who keep themselves on the map and represent us with their best knowledge have earned their position and can be proud of that. Keep up the good work.

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest
Kitty McKitty
In Praise Of Shadows
#3 - 2011-09-21 19:44:50 UTC
Quote:
"CCP needs to find the 'romance' of EVE again. CCP needs to fall in love with the game beyond the money it makes for them to work on other projects."

Absolutely this. It doesn't feel like CCP care any more. No amount of overzealous "It's going to be amazing." can convince me otherwise.

I think the White Wolf merger and obvious stretching of resources that developing other games is causing combined with investors that CCP are now pressured to make happy have stopped CCP being able to stick to their true vision and we get RMT and such nonsense that doesn't fit with the spirit of EVE.

Seleene you are a far better CSM member than the Mittani ♥

♥ Haviing your portrait painted here helps INTAKI Disabled Children ♥
Meryl SinGarda
Belligerent Underpaid Tactical Team
#4 - 2011-09-21 19:45:12 UTC
Yeah, what's with the CSM? You guys totally missed the train. People are calming down now. CCP are releasing all sorts of awesome things and now the CSM is coming to the forums with articles like it's 4 months ago.
stoicfaux
#5 - 2011-09-21 19:51:11 UTC
From teh blog: "It just requires CCP's management to turn their heads and put resources into the things that will make those dreams a reality."

IMO, CCP is too far along and too far committed, where committed is "when it comes to ham and eggs for breakfast, the chicken is involved, but the pig is committed," for CCP to reallocate enough resources back to FiS.

Instead, the player base's main chances to get excited about Eve again are:
a) WiS is implemented, or
b) enough quick, dirty, and/or easy hacks can be made to improve or add to FiS. By this I mean that tweaking a database value, such as mineral allocation, is much easier and more likely to happen on limited resources than implementing new ships or a PI like feature requiring a new interface, etc..

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#6 - 2011-09-21 19:51:41 UTC
Meryl SinGarda wrote:
CCP are releasing all sorts of awesome things


Can you name two awesome things that have been released?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Meryl SinGarda
Belligerent Underpaid Tactical Team
#7 - 2011-09-21 19:52:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Meryl SinGarda
Okay, I suppose the rage certain CSM members want to incite still exists in a few people.

But seriously, do some reading.
Seleene
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
#8 - 2011-09-21 20:00:08 UTC
Meryl SinGarda wrote:
Yeah, what's with the CSM? You guys totally missed the train. People are calming down now. CCP are releasing all sorts of awesome things and now the CSM is coming to the forums with articles like it's 4 months ago.


What's happening now is the result of a lot of different things and we're still all waiting on whatever the 'big deal' blog is going to be. I posted about that here.

stoicfaux wrote:
From teh blog: "It just requires CCP's management to turn their heads and put resources into the things that will make those dreams a reality."

IMO, CCP is too far along and too far committed, where committed is "when it comes to ham and eggs for breakfast, the chicken is involved, but the pig is committed," for CCP to reallocate enough resources back to FiS.

Instead, the player base's main chances to get excited about Eve again are:
a) WiS is implemented, or
b) enough quick, dirty, and/or easy hacks can be made to improve or add to FiS. By this I mean that tweaking a database value, such as mineral allocation, is much easier and more likely to happen on limited resources than implementing new ships or a PI like feature requiring a new interface, etc..


This is where CCP and the CSM are butting heads right now - we're not interested in hacks or 'fixes'. We want true iteration on neglected and unfinished features. That's what I campaigned on and that's what I continue to push for because... SPACESHIPS, right?

Incarna could have been better, but I don't think it was ever going to be the draw CCP thought, especially in its current unfinished state. Looking at subscriber trends and online numbers, the Incarna we have now has proven to be a colossally bad allocation of resources. The last time something like this happened, we got Apocrypha. It is very possible for CCP to change course if they feel the path they are on leads to quicksand.

2004-2008: Mercenary Coalition Boss

2007-2010: CCP Game Designer | 2011-2013: CSM6 Delegate & CSM7 Chairman

2011-2015: Pandemic Legionnaire

2015- : Mercenary Coalition Boss

Follow Seleene on Twitter!
Meryl SinGarda
Belligerent Underpaid Tactical Team
#9 - 2011-09-21 20:05:45 UTC
Seleene wrote:
Meryl SinGarda wrote:
Yeah, what's with the CSM? You guys totally missed the train. People are calming down now. CCP are releasing all sorts of awesome things and now the CSM is coming to the forums with articles like it's 4 months ago.


What's happening now is the result of a lot of different things and we're still all waiting on whatever the 'big deal' blog is going to be. I posted about that here.

stoicfaux wrote:
From teh blog: "It just requires CCP's management to turn their heads and put resources into the things that will make those dreams a reality."

IMO, CCP is too far along and too far committed, where committed is "when it comes to ham and eggs for breakfast, the chicken is involved, but the pig is committed," for CCP to reallocate enough resources back to FiS.

Instead, the player base's main chances to get excited about Eve again are:
a) WiS is implemented, or
b) enough quick, dirty, and/or easy hacks can be made to improve or add to FiS. By this I mean that tweaking a database value, such as mineral allocation, is much easier and more likely to happen on limited resources than implementing new ships or a PI like feature requiring a new interface, etc..


This is where CCP and the CSM are butting heads right now - we're not interested in hacks or 'fixes'. We want true iteration on neglected and unfinished features. That's what I campaigned on and that's what I continue to push for because... SPACESHIPS, right?

Incarna could have been better, but I don't think it was ever going to be the draw CCP thought, especially in its current unfinished state. Looking at subscriber trends and online numbers, the Incarna we have now has proven to be a colossally bad allocation of resources. The last time something like this happened, we got Apocrypha. It is very possible for CCP to change course if they feel the path they are on leads to quicksand.


So the devblog about CCP coming back with features people have been kicking and screaming for, returning, isn't the big ol' dev blog? I mean, I've been pretty content all along. Incarna is something I've wanted and the December expansion sounds like it'll be pretty nice, even considering older features are being re-implemented simply because a lot of people couldn't adapt.

And no, not just SPACESHIPS. There is more to EVE life than steel and thrusters.
Venkul Mul
Vikramaditya
#10 - 2011-09-21 20:13:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Venkul Mul
Reasonable blog, I have only a problem with it.

Why it is a blog on a outside site?

This kind of stuff should be published in Jita Park, not scattered in the personal blogs of the CSM members around all the web.
I am not interested in casing the blogs of the CSM members. They should be meant for the players constituency and published where all the players interested in the EVE forums can easily see them.
There is a strong tendency in this CSM to publish things on outside sites, do "fireplace discussions" on outside channels and so on.
For me that is the same of a total lack of communication.
There is a section of this forum that is dedicated to that kind of thing, try using it.

If for some reason you can't post the blog as you wish it to appear (placing images in it and so on) place a reduced version in Jita park and lik the extended version, but don't neglect Jita part and use a outside site as your main line of communication.

You have posted this stuff in the Jita park corner too and that is a good thing, but I rarely see CSM posts there. Way rarely than with previous CSM.
stoicfaux
#11 - 2011-09-21 20:18:07 UTC
Seleene wrote:

This is where CCP and the CSM are butting heads right now - we're not interested in hacks or 'fixes'. We want true iteration on neglected and unfinished features. That's what I campaigned on and that's what I continue to push for because... SPACESHIPS, right?


I understand. However, I don't think that's a realistic stance to take anymore.

IMHO, if WoD fails, then CCP fails, which means that Eve fails. There's too much at stake with WoD for CCP to prioritize FiS over WoD (and DUST) right now. If push comes to shove, I can see CCP cannibalizing Eve to try to save WoD over abandoning WoD to keep Eve alive.

Therefore, IMHO, the CSM's best chances for FiS changes in the near to medium term is to target the features and fixes that can be reasonably implemented by whatever limited pool of CCP resources FiS has available.

Which leads me to ask, does the CSM know what level of Dev/Art/etc. resources are available for FiS work? If not, then I would request that you all find out and try to tailor the FiS feature/fix list to match the resources available.


Quote:
... the Incarna we have now has proven to be a colossally bad allocation of resources. The last time something like this happened, we got Apocrypha. It is very possible for CCP to change course if they feel the path they are on leads to quicksand.


Yes, and I think it's good for the CSM, subs, and players to apply pressure on CCP to try to free up additional WiS resources, but to do so without jeopardizing WoD, upon which CCP's future (and Eve's future) depends.


P.S. I do appreciate the effort that the CSM is putting forth. Thank you all.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Seleene
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
#12 - 2011-09-21 20:22:41 UTC
Venkul Mul wrote:
Reasonable blog, I have only a problem with it.

Why it is a blog on a outside site?

This kind of stuff should be published in Jita Park, not scattered in the personal blogs of the CSM members around all the web.
I am not interested in casing the blogs of the CSM members. They should be meant for the players constituency and published where all the players interested in the EVE forums can easily see them.
There is a strong tendency in this CSM to publish things on outside sites, do "fireplace discussions" on outside channels and so on.
For me that is the same of a total lack of communication.
There is a section of this forum that is dedicated to that kind of thing, try using it.

If for some reason you can't post the blog as you wish it to appear (placing images in it and so on) place a reduced version in Jita park and lik the extended version, but don't neglect Jita part and use a outside site as your main line of communication.


I did this on the original forums.

But, point taken. I'll make sure to post a thread there linking any new blog posts I make.

2004-2008: Mercenary Coalition Boss

2007-2010: CCP Game Designer | 2011-2013: CSM6 Delegate & CSM7 Chairman

2011-2015: Pandemic Legionnaire

2015- : Mercenary Coalition Boss

Follow Seleene on Twitter!
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#13 - 2011-09-21 20:24:08 UTC
Venkul Mul wrote:
Reasonable blog, I have only a problem with it.

Why it is a blog on a outside site?

This kind of stuff should be published in Jita Park, not scattered in the personal blogs of the CSM members around all the web.
I am not interested in casing the blogs of the CSM members. They should be meant for the players constituency and published where all the players interested in the EVE forums can easily see them.
There is a strong tendency in this CSM to publish things on outside sites, do "fireplace discussions" on outside channels and so on.
For me that is the same of a total lack of communication.
There is a section of this forum that is dedicated to that kind of thing, try using it.

If for some reason you can't post the blog as you wish it to appear (placing images in it and so on) place a reduced version in Jita park and lik the extended version, but don't neglect Jita part and use a outside site as your main line of communication.

You have posted this stuff in the Jita park corner too and that is a good thing, but I rarely see CSM posts there. Way rarely than with previous CSM.


CCP can't delete off-site blogs.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#14 - 2011-09-21 20:25:20 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:


Yes, and I think it's good for the CSM, subs, and players to apply pressure on CCP to try to free up additional WiS resources, but to do so without jeopardizing WoD, upon which CCP's future (and Eve's future) depends.


It's not the CSM's job to give a rat's ass about WoD.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Takashi Kaeda
Perkone
Caldari State
#15 - 2011-09-21 20:25:50 UTC
Hey Seleene aren't you the ex-CCP dev who **** all over EVE sov with the terrible that was Dominion?
Seleene
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
#16 - 2011-09-21 20:26:21 UTC
Meryl SinGarda wrote:
Incarna is something I've wanted


I was never completely opposed to it, just the terrible roll out after waiting the better part of 5 years since the first demo at FanFest 2006.

Meryl SinGarda wrote:
And no, not just SPACESHIPS. There is more to EVE life than steel and thrusters.


Perhaps so, but CCP has done a poor job of showing us that life so far. In a perfect game, we'd have both but right now my main focus is on fixing the stuff that has sat stagnant for years before seeing even more resources allocated to Incarna.

2004-2008: Mercenary Coalition Boss

2007-2010: CCP Game Designer | 2011-2013: CSM6 Delegate & CSM7 Chairman

2011-2015: Pandemic Legionnaire

2015- : Mercenary Coalition Boss

Follow Seleene on Twitter!
Seleene
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
#17 - 2011-09-21 20:27:53 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:


Yes, and I think it's good for the CSM, subs, and players to apply pressure on CCP to try to free up additional WiS resources, but to do so without jeopardizing WoD, upon which CCP's future (and Eve's future) depends.


It's not the CSM's job to give a rat's ass about WoD.


Pretty much this.

Takashi Kaeda wrote:
Hey Seleene aren't you the ex-CCP dev who **** all over EVE sov with the terrible that was Dominion?


Heh. Go read the blog if you wanna know my feelings on the awesome-ness of Dominion. Pirate

2004-2008: Mercenary Coalition Boss

2007-2010: CCP Game Designer | 2011-2013: CSM6 Delegate & CSM7 Chairman

2011-2015: Pandemic Legionnaire

2015- : Mercenary Coalition Boss

Follow Seleene on Twitter!
Seleene
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
#18 - 2011-09-21 20:29:56 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Which leads me to ask, does the CSM know what level of Dev/Art/etc. resources are available for FiS work?


At this exact moment, no. It is something we've been informed of in the past and that we ask for. With winter on the way, we should know more soon.

2004-2008: Mercenary Coalition Boss

2007-2010: CCP Game Designer | 2011-2013: CSM6 Delegate & CSM7 Chairman

2011-2015: Pandemic Legionnaire

2015- : Mercenary Coalition Boss

Follow Seleene on Twitter!
Meryl SinGarda
Belligerent Underpaid Tactical Team
#19 - 2011-09-21 20:36:22 UTC
Seleene wrote:
Meryl SinGarda wrote:
Incarna is something I've wanted


I was never completely opposed to it, just the terrible roll out after waiting the better part of 5 years since the first demo at FanFest 2006.

Meryl SinGarda wrote:
And no, not just SPACESHIPS. There is more to EVE life than steel and thrusters.


Perhaps so, but CCP has done a poor job of showing us that life so far. In a perfect game, we'd have both but right now my main focus is on fixing the stuff that has sat stagnant for years before seeing even more resources allocated to Incarna.


And I've never disagreed with having stagnant issues fixed. I would simply like to see the current expansion/addition in its final state.
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#20 - 2011-09-21 21:43:19 UTC
seeing as i voted for you, im gonan say this.

why did you not start turning up the heat on ccp when the players started to mass quit?

im not just talking about getting the ship spinning hanger back, im talking about all the wasted time and effort they put in to a 1/4 finished product and push that out as a 'expansion' .

i just dont get it. now you and mittens start banging on about something that was very aparent to most of the players on day 1, 3 or so months ago. maybe you were doing this behind closed doors, but it would have been reassuring (not in a mummy daddy reassuring way, more in i didnt waste my time voting way)to know that you were doing it back then at the start.

i am awaiting this blog, if only to see the results of these closed meetings you guys have been having

OMG when can i get a pic here
123Next pageLast page