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T2 Destroyer Heavy Bomber
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#21 - 2012-02-24 17:02:24 UTC
MIrple wrote:
I don't want to make it a hybrid or dual role plat form. I want to make this have a specific role. As to the bombs not doing much damage to Capitals I would have to agree with you on that what about introducing a new type of bomb an Anti Capital Bomb it would take up the entire Bomb cargo space so 1 mounted per launcher. It would have the same operation as the DD of only being able to fire on capital ships. This would also make the SB more of a Capital weapon also as it could carry 1 also but not be as destructive as the heavy bomber would be to capitals. For this to work the Bombs would have to be 10 mi+ and do damage of 150k upwards. cargo Space would also have to be a factor I would think it should be large enough to carry 2 spare bombs and some room for Torps. These ships would need Carrier support or a can in space to reload from to make them effective in long deployments.



Considering that you don't need a lock to launch a bomb, wouldn't you be able to just decimate subcap fleets with these even easier than you can with regular bombers? One run with half a dozen of these, and you've popped the entire fleet.
MIrple
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#22 - 2012-02-24 17:04:34 UTC
Read my edits please. It might need its own launcher for this to work but that wouldn't change the what I am aiming for.
MIrple
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#23 - 2012-02-24 17:06:49 UTC
MIrple wrote:
(Edited) 2/24/2012
Gallente Heavy Bomber

6 Hi Slots 4 Launcher Hard Points 2 Bomb Hard Points
3 Mids
4 Lows

Structure 782
Armor 950 Resists 50% EM 10% EXP 83% Kin 67% Therm
Shield 677 Resists 0% EM 50% EXP 85% KIN 60% Therm

Gallente Destroyer Skill Bonus:
10% bonus to torpedo explosion velocity and flight time per level
20% bonus to torpedo velocity per level

Heavy Bomber Skill Bonus:
10% bonus to bomb thermal damage per level
10% bonus to torpedo thermal damage per level

Role Bonus
-99.65% reduction in Siege Missile Launcher powergrid needs
Able to fit 2 bomb launchers

I have thought about this and I feel this is the best way To make it work. Skills required Destroyer lvl V and Bomb Launcher lvl 5. This will allow for the fitting of T2 Bomb launchers and these launchers will be able to fit the T2 anti capital bombs. These bombs have some basic guidance and are only able to launch vs capital ships much like the current DD. These Bombs do massive damage close to 200k at Heavy Bomber lvl 5. These ships are meant to in large swarms take out capitals in a single bombing run or soften up the supers for the capital fleet. It would take a fleet of 125 Heavy Bombers to take down a Super carrier. I think this would be a very interesting way to make supers die more frequently or at least make the alliance commit a sub cap fleet to protect the capital fleet.
Fredric Wolf
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#24 - 2012-02-25 19:12:59 UTC
+1 Great Idea
L'Acuto
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2012-02-27 00:08:21 UTC
Instead of 2 bomb launchers how about a reduction to or elimination of the reactivation delay?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2012-02-27 00:35:42 UTC
L'Acuto wrote:
Instead of 2 bomb launchers how about a reduction to or elimination of the reactivation delay?

Slight reduction, maybe. Elimination? No, no, no...

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
#27 - 2012-02-27 02:37:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Tinu Moorhsum
MIrple wrote:

...snip...

I have thought about this and I feel this is the best way To make it work. Skills required Destroyer lvl V and Bomb Launcher lvl 5. This will allow for the fitting of T2 Bomb launchers and these launchers will be able to fit the T2 anti capital bombs. These bombs have some basic guidance and are only able to launch vs capital ships much like the current DD. These Bombs do massive damage close to 200k at Heavy Bomber lvl 5. These ships are meant to in large swarms take out capitals in a single bombing run or soften up the supers for the capital fleet. It would take a fleet of 125 Heavy Bombers to take down a Super carrier. I think this would be a very interesting way to make supers die more frequently or at least make the alliance commit a sub cap fleet to protect the capital fleet.


I think it all gets too complicated when we start getting into the realm of "this weapon can shoot ship type A B and C but not type D and that weapon can shoot ship type X Y Z and type A can shoot type Z ships if type D ships are not on grid or moving faster than 1000mps which they can only do if type E ships have just cyno'd in and the cyno is still up.... unless it's Friday or 4:30am in central US TZ "

Too complicated and it opens a can of worms.

If you want a good "anti capital" weapon then just fix the dread. give it some kind of mini-DD or something so we have a flying hope in hell of killing more super-caps with fleets that can be afforded without 24 hour a day bot ratting/mining.

T-

p.s. That said.... if it were just a bigger bomber, one that could launch 2 bombs at a time but wasn't able to fit a covert-ops cloak, then I think it would have a nice niche for small corps/alliances who don't have enough "extra" pilots to fill up a useful stealth bomber fleet for support of their main fleet.

T-
Antal Marius
Allied Operations
Mechanicus Macabre Immortale
#28 - 2012-02-27 10:14:02 UTC
Just a thought, and I'll probably be flamed to hell and back for it, but restrict it to ONLY the two bomb launchers/new launcher?
MIrple
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#29 - 2012-02-27 15:26:09 UTC
Tinu Moorhsum wrote:

...snip...


If you want a good "anti capital" weapon then just fix the dread. give it some kind of mini-DD or something so we have a flying hope in hell of killing more super-caps with fleets that can be afforded without 24 hour a day bot ratting/mining.


T-


That is the problem if you field enough Dreads to take down a Super the Super fleet will kill every last dread and at the end of the day you are the ones with the lost isk. I am proposing a Cheaper Ship that can perform this function and still maintain balance. Why do you say that a weapon shouldn't be able to attack A when it can XYZ. We already have this in game with the DD. If you want make it so they heavy bomber can field a new type of Bomb Launcher then so its simpler an Anti Cap Bomb Launcher but still make it so it can only be used at Bomb lvl 5. I don't want this ship to be exploited with normal bomb launchers that can take out sub cap fleets i want this to have a specific role and to make the game more dynamic.
zhang elliott
Stygian Boatmen
#30 - 2012-03-01 17:51:09 UTC
I for one would not mind seeing a new use for the dessie platform. I feel that the class of ship is under-rated terribly and any one that proposes a change to make them more viable is treated like an ass clown or something similar. Destroyers are meant to destroy other ships alone or in Destroyer Squadrons. Destroyers in RL have been modified to fit a whole host of situations, why should that be any different in EVE. But bomber not real sure on that.....torps hell yeah.
MIrple
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#31 - 2012-03-01 18:17:53 UTC
I am seeing a lot of confusion with the bomb launchers on this ship. Would a new Module make people less fearful of exploites of this ship. The Module would be called an Anti Capital Launcher. This would require a new skill of Anti Calital Launcher and would require Bomb launcher V for it. This would be able to hold a new Charge call a RPC or rocket propelled charge. This would have tracking capabilities but would not be able to lock onto anything sub capital. The charge would be invented from bomb BPC's so it is a T2 weapon. Basically Someone tinkered with a standard bomb made the explosive a shape charge to focus all the damage of the weapon into a small pinpoint area. I would think a max range on this bomb would be 20km and they travel at a speed of 750m/s so if there are frigates or destroyers in fleet they would be able to target and destroy these before they hit the capital ship. I think that each of these should do around 200~250k each. That would put 100 of these bombers at 50 million Damage per run. Please read this and let me know if this is a better approach then just having bomb launchers. Also please put any Ideas or changes you would make to this ship so we can refine and solidify this more. Thanks
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#32 - 2012-03-01 20:13:57 UTC
I like the anti cap bomber idea, put some fear into those titan pilots, however dessys are really really squishy. it jsut makes me wonder about a 20 km range weapon with supers having ~ 7km/7.5 sec smartbombs with the supercap volume diameter thats a pretty huge amount of space that it hits. it would be an interisting fight though



Oh and i still want my AEGIS Destroyers. scan for cloakys in the old school probe formats. active ping scans, (hmm... active ping shows cloaky types+name on scanner shows a AU range. also makes you warpable like a cyno, the scanner not the cloaky)


something anything would be fun.

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
SPYDER245
FinFleet
Northern Coalition.
#33 - 2012-03-02 15:25:26 UTC  |  Edited by: SPYDER245
First, let's make caps/supercaps almost unable to lock and destroy subcap targets. Then, make a cheap subcap ship that can destroy a capital/supercapital.

Why not remove the caps/supercaps altogether ?

If you want a good weapon against a supertank, spend a similar amount of isk and bring your own supercannon. Dont ask for a wooden arrow with a 500 megatones nuke head.
MIrple
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#34 - 2012-03-02 15:28:50 UTC
Your logic about bring the same ship to kill the same ship is already been counted as dumb. Just because I propose a ship that would make people have to have support ships for there Capital fleets. I am sorry that your I win button is no longer valid.
SPYDER245
FinFleet
Northern Coalition.
#35 - 2012-03-02 15:35:14 UTC  |  Edited by: SPYDER245
MIrple wrote:
Your logic about bring the same ship to kill the same ship is already been counted as dumb. Just because I propose a ship that would make people have to have support ships for there Capital fleets. I am sorry that your I win button is no longer valid.


Hmmmm... when ? I meant same amount of isk. If you want to take down a fleet, bring your own fleet - this was EVE's logic since the invention of T2s. Having a superbomb that can destroy entire fleets of caps/supercaps reduces any fight to something like whoever-fires-first-wins. Caps lose their purpose.
MIrple
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#36 - 2012-03-02 15:40:12 UTC  |  Edited by: MIrple
MIrple wrote:
I am seeing a lot of confusion with the bomb launchers on this ship. Would a new Module make people less fearful of exploites of this ship. The Module would be called an Anti Capital Launcher. This would require a new skill of Anti Calital Launcher and would require Bomb launcher V for it. This would be able to hold a new Charge call a RPC or rocket propelled charge. This would have tracking capabilities but would not be able to lock onto anything sub capital. The charge would be invented from bomb BPC's so it is a T2 weapon. Basically Someone tinkered with a standard bomb made the explosive a shape charge to focus all the damage of the weapon into a small pinpoint area. I would think a max range on this bomb would be 20km and they travel at a speed of 750m/s so if there are frigates or destroyers in fleet they would be able to target and destroy these before they hit the capital ship. I think that each of these should do around 200~250k each. That would put 100 of these bombers at 50 million Damage per run. Please read this and let me know if this is a better approach then just having bomb launchers. Also please put any Ideas or changes you would make to this ship so we can refine and solidify this more. Thanks


Please read this and explain how this ship would take down entire fleets of caps and subcaps

Also it would take a bomber fleet of ~100 ships how is that not a fleet.
SPYDER245
FinFleet
Northern Coalition.
#37 - 2012-03-02 15:52:57 UTC

Please bring down your tone a notch - i am not trying to offend you so please return the favor; we are merely discussing an idea, please try and do it in a mature way.

Now, can anywhere in eve a single ship ( or 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 ) take down a ship 2 classes up their size ( obviously, assuming its pilot was experienced enough to know how to fit it properly ) ? I.e. 2-5 frigs taking down a BS or 2-5 cruisers a capital or 2-5 BS a supercap.
MIrple
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#38 - 2012-03-02 16:12:47 UTC
Yes I have seen 3 to 4 frigs take out a BS, and also what you are saying is that Freighters shouldn't be kill able by anything other then BS's? What your saying is flawed in game dynamics. I also stated that the way the ship would work is you would need many of these to kill a Capital not the 3~4 you stated please read all of the forum post before responding with this is OP. I am not trying to attack you but I feel you read the top post and then immediately commented on this tread.
SPYDER245
FinFleet
Northern Coalition.
#39 - 2012-03-02 16:44:16 UTC
MIrple wrote:
Yes I have seen 3 to 4 frigs take out a BS, and also what you are saying is that Freighters shouldn't be kill able by anything other then BS's? What your saying is flawed in game dynamics. I also stated that the way the ship would work is you would need many of these to kill a Capital not the 3~4 you stated please read all of the forum post before responding with this is OP. I am not trying to attack you but I feel you read the top post and then immediately commented on this tread.


Freighters and industrial ships are non-pvp so they dont get into this discussion.

I admit i am guilty of not readin the entire thread, just the edited first post. Now i have read it all. I have the following comments :

You say one of these ships can fit 2 launchers and both can do 250k damage in one run, so 500k damage for a ship. One decently fitted archon has somewhere between 175k and 200k armor, and at least one tank type under 90%, so one of these bombers can take down one quarter of its armor in one run. 5 ships can destroy it without problems. Maybe with overheating, boosters and gang bonuses a capital could still be standing against 7-8 bombers which are a 50 times cheaper ship.

Also, you argued against using un-nerfed dreads against supers stating that you want "a cheaper ship". Please take in account that a dread is already almost 60-70 times cheaper than a titan.
MIrple
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#40 - 2012-03-02 16:50:38 UTC
Thanks for the positive feedback on this would making the Explosion Radius larger so that Dreads and Carriers wouldn't receive full damage. But full damage would still apply to Supers and Titans. I understand what you are saying about dreads I am just trying to propose an idea that would make it suicidal for alliances to field fleets of capital without sub cap support.
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