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Amarr ships laser cap bonus makes no sense anymore
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Dirty Teacher
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-02-29 00:20:05 UTC
just reduce all lasers cap usage by 50% and give new bonus to Amarr ships, they will still consume more cap than hybrid weapons after their buff and have the most severe fitting requirements.

It's not like they are any better than other weapon system anyway to deserve hulls with only one real bonus, truth to be told they are barely useful only because of scorch.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2012-02-29 00:43:32 UTC
I'm Amarr and I think this would be OP.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Galphii
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-02-29 01:20:18 UTC
Yeah... 50% might be a bit much, considering you'd be giving the ships a weapon bonus like 5% damage as well? Maybe 30-40% reduction would be better. But I like the general idea, as people just put projectile weapons on ships without a damage bonus.

"Wow, that internet argument completely changed my fundamental belief system," said no one, ever.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2012-02-29 01:28:08 UTC
Well the problem I have with that is that some Amarr ships with the relevant skill at level 5 will give a 50% reduction in energy weapon cap use. If you were to remove that and add the 50% fixed reduction in energy weapon cap use, that would basically be like applying this bonus to ALL Amarr ships. If you were to add instead a 30-40% reduction, you've just nerfed the cap on those Amarr ships that were affected by the skill bonus and buffed the ones that weren't. The replacement bonus should be worth the hit to cap.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Tekashi Kovacs
Golfclap Inc
#5 - 2012-02-29 01:36:01 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I'm Amarr and I think this would be OP.


I'm not Amarr and I think it wouldnt.
Dirty Teacher
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-02-29 01:36:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Dirty Teacher
one reason Amarr ships was given cap bonus was to avoid other races ships to mount lasers (they were pretty sick apparently...that is not the case atm), the same bonus today is the cause of ships like punishers/mallers/prophecy to use autocannons instead.

Of course the cap reduction values can be adjusted to find a good balance to let cap usage remain an important factor, like 40% for pulses and 50% for beams (they could use a little love tbh).

Doing so won't really make Amarr overpowered (maybe scorch can be toned down a little if anything) but we will have a much more interesting line up to choose from.
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#7 - 2012-02-29 01:50:46 UTC
It would also give all the Minmatar ships a -50% laser cap usage bonus.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Dirty Teacher
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-02-29 02:01:39 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
It would also give all the Minmatar ships a -50% laser cap usage bonus.


yes but with no weapon bonus and much less PG to fit other modules
Vae Abeo
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2012-02-29 02:03:39 UTC
What? Why?
As an Amarr you'll fit armor tank and gank.
Why would you even think of fitting anything else? HERETIC.

But Yeah most amarr ships are "cheap dps" "ranged dps" and "dps tank". I do agree that some variability could be fun tho, but i think thats what minmatar ships are for.
Danel Tosh
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-02-29 03:16:03 UTC
well we could just add more cap capacity/regen to the apropriate Ammar ships.
this could compensate for the loss of laser cap bonus and then we can add a dammage bonus to the ships.
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#11 - 2012-02-29 06:06:24 UTC
Once upon a time, lasers were pwnzors, but were unusable by most races due to cap usage. Thus making Amarr the only race that was able to use them effectively.

Now that we've been through several redesigns of the other turrets, this is no longer the case. A boost of .1 or .15 to the damage or so to the damage multiplier of all laser turrets should bring them back in line. Alternately, rebalance all the Amarr hulls with a damage bonus like other races, and reduce the cap cost of lasers.

Overhaul Dscan!
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#12 - 2012-02-29 06:07:23 UTC
Danel Tosh wrote:
well we could just add more cap capacity/regen to the apropriate Ammar ships.
this could compensate for the loss of laser cap bonus and then we can add a dammage bonus to the ships.


They already have more then other races, and this would also affect active tanking and neuting and prop builds and... etc.

Overhaul Dscan!
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#13 - 2012-02-29 06:58:01 UTC
Counter Proposal:

Take away all the laser cap usage bonuses on Amarr ships and replace them with a range or RoF bonus... and nothing else.

Now lasers effectively "require" the fitting of a certain mod (cap booster) to function well... the same way blasters "require" MWDs.

How did you Veterans start?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2012-02-29 10:13:54 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Counter Proposal:

Take away all the laser cap usage bonuses on Amarr ships and replace them with a range or RoF bonus... and nothing else.

Now lasers effectively "require" the fitting of a certain mod (cap booster) to function well... the same way blasters "require" MWDs.

Then we can only use our weapons and tank for a very limited amount of time until our cap booster ammo, which tends to be quite large, runs out.

This is quite possibly one of the stupidest ideas I've read.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#15 - 2012-02-29 13:27:28 UTC
Replace with: Divine reprimand!.
- Every time a laser gets a wrecking shot, a random line from the Amarrian scripture is transmitted to local chat.

On a serious note, what can it be swapped with that doesn't make them horribly broken .. either of RoF, range or tracking would all make laser boats absolute horrors on the battle field. Being OP is boring!

I am all for abbaddonification of the resist hulls (Punisher, Maller, Prophecy) .. by all means, up their capacitor a smidgen and replace it with damage .. but the rest are pretty good weapon wise.
Biggest beef I have is that the top tier cruiser is designed to be a brick when all other races have dps boats at that level, Omen can be nice in same situations but it really should be the top rather than the middle.

Perhaps when/if CCP gets around to addressing the eWar issues, we can apply some "soft" (read: not direct combat related) bonuses to the various hull .. bonuses that doesn't necessarily make them top-dogs until the next over-buff rolls around.
Gypsio III
State War Academy
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-02-29 16:29:21 UTC
Balance ships, not bonuses. Blanket changes to numerous ships is lazy game design and is almost always a bad idea (e.g., projectile ammo changes).

If you think there are problems with certain Amarr ships, then decided whether the Amarr ship is alone, or whether the class/tier (t2 BCs) or a subgroup within (such as Moa and Maller), is compromised. If the latter, then the solution does not involve an Amarr-specific fix.

Finally, think about ships that would benefit from such a blanket change that definitely do not need boosting - such as Amarr BS...
Dirty Teacher
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-02-29 18:37:22 UTC
Gypsio III wrote:
Balance ships, not bonuses. Blanket changes to numerous ships is lazy game design and is almost always a bad idea (e.g., projectile ammo changes).

If you think there are problems with certain Amarr ships, then decided whether the Amarr ship is alone, or whether the class/tier (t2 BCs) or a subgroup within (such as Moa and Maller), is compromised. If the latter, then the solution does not involve an Amarr-specific fix.

Finally, think about ships that would benefit from such a blanket change that definitely do not need boosting - such as Amarr BS...


what i'm proposing is not a point blank buff to Amarr ships but more like moving away from an outdated design that imposes a "tax" on amarr hulls just beacuse they use lasers, frankly it's a cheap and bad philosophy not justified at all by the current state of weapon systems in the game. If during the testing some ships will appear to perform too well adjustments can be made to bring it in line (reduce capacitors etc).
Mister Burns
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2012-02-29 19:32:15 UTC
If you replace the cap use bonuses with damage bonuses you would have to also lower the base damage of all amarr turrets as they have more than all other races guns.
WARNING! OPINION BELOW!
Besides as a gallente/minmatar pilot thinking of crosstraining into Amarr, if their ships get the same bonuses as every other race it's just BORING , less variety and I might as well not crosstrain.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#19 - 2012-02-29 19:54:34 UTC
Or you could just buff lasers to make them more competitive with other weapons on cap bonused boats.
Dirty Teacher
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-02-29 20:10:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Dirty Teacher
Mister Burns wrote:
If you replace the cap use bonuses with damage bonuses you would have to also lower the base damage of all amarr turrets as they have more than all other races guns.
WARNING! OPINION BELOW!
Besides as a gallente/minmatar pilot thinking of crosstraining into Amarr, if their ships get the same bonuses as every other race it's just BORING , less variety and I might as well not crosstrain.


you may want to check again, blasters have higher base damage than pulses and you will find having ship with only 1 real bonus is not so fun as it may appear
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