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Tier 3 BC's left us high and dry.

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Cephelange du'Krevviq
Gildinous Vangaurd
The Initiative.
#21 - 2012-02-27 06:21:57 UTC
If you're talking about PvE, then I think you can afford to stick to your single weapon type skills. If you do any sort of PvP, you're very likely going to need to skill up in all weapons.

I started as Caldari/hybrid, and reluctanly skilled up in missiles, because they are that much better in PvE. Missile flingers have the Drake; they don't need a T3 BC. Period, end of story.

So, please, stop with the whinefest about not having a T3 missile boat. Caldari hulls are hybrid hulls, too, not just missiles.

"I am a leaf on the...ah, frak it!"
CanIHave YourStuff
In Praise Of Shadows
#22 - 2012-02-27 06:22:12 UTC
Why don't you just STFU and fly a Raven. It can, at least, tank long enough for your torps to do anything.
Aestivalis Saidrian
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#23 - 2012-02-27 06:34:00 UTC
tikktokk tokkzikk wrote:
.... and have nothing to do with their anti-capital role?


I lol'd.

Naga's an amazing sniper.
Tornado is now the Highsec Gankboat.
Oracle is another amazing sniper.
Talos does whatever it wants.
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#24 - 2012-02-27 06:36:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Ireland VonVicious
Cephelange du'Krevviq wrote:
If you're talking about PvE, then I think you can afford to stick to your single weapon type skills. If you do any sort of PvP, you're very likely going to need to skill up in all weapons.

I started as Caldari/hybrid, and reluctanly skilled up in missiles, because they are that much better in PvE. Missile flingers have the Drake; they don't need a T3 BC. Period, end of story.

So, please, stop with the whinefest about not having a T3 missile boat. Caldari hulls are hybrid hulls, too, not just missiles.


I use the RS for pvp as I use it for almost anything.
I much prefer having one set of skills all level 5 then having them all over the place.
Same effect happens with my implants. When I look in eft at all level 5 compared to my toon it gets less out of the ship not more.

I have gun skills but they suck compared to my missle/drone skills. I'm over 30mil sp between the two of them.

As to the raven from the other poster I prefer the neut domi,scorp,navy scorp, for my pvp.

I'm not suggesting that we need a drone tier three BC or a missle one.
Only that CCP has been doing a hell of a job at buffing guns and those of us who are gurista pilots are now even more disadvantaged when it comes to flying anything in the BC class ship. Only decent option we had was the drake and hello nerf.
CanIHave YourStuff
In Praise Of Shadows
#25 - 2012-02-27 06:39:18 UTC
Adapt or cry. Seriously this entire thread is a whine about your personal expectations.
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#26 - 2012-02-27 06:42:53 UTC
CanIHave YourStuff wrote:
Adapt or cry. Seriously this entire thread is a whine about your personal expectations.


Another gun user who has no idea that my only issue is balance in the BC class.

It's personally not effecting me as I'll just grab a gila if I want to go rampage.
The issue is most pilots don't have the kind of isk needed to spend thier pvp time in cross faction ships.
WolfeReign
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#27 - 2012-02-27 08:55:54 UTC
I would just be happy if my group of missiles when fired showed as a bunch of missiles instead of just one.

Missile spam ftw!! Twisted
Liam Mirren
#28 - 2012-02-27 08:56:29 UTC
Ireland VonVicious wrote:
I have gun skills but they suck compared to my missle/drone skills. I'm over 30mil sp between the two of them.


Exactly as I stated: "bawww, I didn't train Hybrids"


Just because YOU chose to not train hybrids and went for other stuff instead, you know the better stuff, doesn't mean CCP has to forever and ever keep Hybrids **** and the other stuff OP. So all this is just a whine because CCP had the gal to introduce something you didn't train for (and actually made it good), anything else you state or come up with as a reasoning is just that, in disguise.

Caldari has been due for a good hybrid ship that actually has a place in things, same for Gallente. Deal with it.

Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
WolfeReign
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#29 - 2012-02-27 09:02:08 UTC  |  Edited by: WolfeReign
Also this supposed drake "nerf" is not really a nerf. added range just makes Hams alot more viable in pvp and alot of times a higher damage output is more beneficial then a little more tank
MissNic
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2012-02-27 09:25:42 UTC
Personally i'm perfectly happy with the Tier 3's as they are. Making one of them a drone boat would result in effectively a less tanky (though less expensive) Ishtar, which would do well to survive long enough for heavies to actually reach their target.

Giving them torps would be entertaining, but bombers cost less and have marginally better chance of surviving engagements so aside from novelty value people would just keep on using them instead. Not to mention the issues already discussed that BS-sized missiles have in pvp.

All my opinion of course, same as anyone else on here Smile
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#31 - 2012-02-27 11:21:15 UTC
There's nothing fundamentally wrong with torps, they're a very powerful anti-BS weapon, and pretty good against Drake spam too.

The problems come when you start mounting them on the wrong ship... such as a flimsy t3 BC that cannot survive a brawling match against a BS or t2 BC, and cannot use torps effectively against anything smaller...

In any case, there was never the option to use 8 damage- or ROF-bonused torps on the Naga, it was on Sisi with a velocity bonus only.
OfBalance
Caldari State
#32 - 2012-02-27 11:58:53 UTC  |  Edited by: OfBalance
Gypsio III wrote:
There's nothing fundamentally wrong with torps, they're a very powerful anti-BS weapon, and pretty good against Drake spam too.


Come again?

Did you mean to say "stealth bombers," there because if you did: I totally agree.
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#33 - 2012-02-27 12:49:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Ireland VonVicious
Liam Mirren wrote:
Ireland VonVicious wrote:
I have gun skills but they suck compared to my missle/drone skills. I'm over 30mil sp between the two of them.


Exactly as I stated: "bawww, I didn't train Hybrids"


Just because YOU chose to not train hybrids and went for other stuff instead, you know the better stuff, doesn't mean CCP has to forever and ever keep Hybrids **** and the other stuff OP. So all this is just a whine because CCP had the gal to introduce something you didn't train for (and actually made it good), anything else you state or come up with as a reasoning is just that, in disguise.

Caldari has been due for a good hybrid ship that actually has a place in things, same for Gallente. Deal with it.


Just the fact that you call it "The better stuff" shows the unbalance and that is the very aspect this thread is pointing out.

I also have no interest in a tier 3 missle bc but it would be nice if they gave the drone/missle combo some love in this class in future updates. Maybe if/when they add faction bc's we will see a myrm with 125 drone bandwidth or a drake that can run a set of medium drones.
Danny John-Peter
The Congregation
RAPID HEAVY ROPERS
#34 - 2012-02-27 13:04:54 UTC
Small point to make, how is giving the Drake a non-predictable damage Type and allowing it to deal consistent Damage up to OMGWTFBBQ range a nerf??
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#35 - 2012-02-27 13:18:01 UTC
OfBalance wrote:
Gypsio III wrote:
There's nothing fundamentally wrong with torps, they're a very powerful anti-BS weapon, and pretty good against Drake spam too.


Come again?

Did you mean to say "stealth bombers," there because if you did: I totally agree.


No, I didn't. What's your point?
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2012-02-27 14:29:33 UTC
Ireland VonVicious wrote:

Your missing the point of the thread.
I think the Naga is great it's just too bad that you need guns skills to make it great.
I have no issue with the caldari line up as a whole.
Only that those who are not trained in guns are getting the shaft.

well. pure Gallente pilot needs missile and torp skills to use Nemesis
pure Minmatar/Caldari/Amarr pilots need good drone skills to use carriers
Caldari pilot needs hybrid skills to use Naga

Nothing to watch here.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Thelron
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#37 - 2012-02-27 14:33:44 UTC
Gypsio III wrote:
OfBalance wrote:
Gypsio III wrote:
There's nothing fundamentally wrong with torps, they're a very powerful anti-BS weapon, and pretty good against Drake spam too.


Come again?

Did you mean to say "stealth bombers," there because if you did: I totally agree.


No, I didn't. What's your point?


Probably at the end of several target painters.

Torps are a sloppy mess that require so much tackle and painting on a target that they're best used for light shows and maybe the occasional ambush. Even with the extra sig from the apparently obligatory LSE's and shield rigs the thought of them being "pretty good" against drake spam is laughable- especailly when you remember that they're *not* mid-range anymore. Killing one or two drakes that you nabbed at a gate? Sure. Blob-on-blob? You're going to get your battleships into torp range? Are your blasterthrons going to come along, too?

Meanwhile, a "Gurista specialist" is annoyed none of the new empire ships fit her intentionally bastardized skill setup? Film at 11? Naga with missiles would have been nothing more than a cute diversion before you put the hybrids back on, at least without a good bit of adjustment to the current missile setup. Talos having *any* drones is a *huge* advantage over the other ships, making it an actual drone boat would just have been stupid seeing as CCP had otherwise finally managed to get a whole ship class "mostly right" for the intended niche.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#38 - 2012-02-27 14:41:21 UTC
What would it even take for a tier 3 bc drone carrier to be good?

tier 3 missile BC would just have people moaning about how its useless because cruise missiles and torps suck because people already moan that those systems suck.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#39 - 2012-02-27 15:11:37 UTC
Thelron wrote:


Torps are a sloppy mess that require so much tackle and painting on a target that they're best used for light shows and maybe the occasional ambush.


Myth bolded.

Sure, if you're firing torps against Gurista frigates, then you may find them lacking.

Torps are a battleship weapon, designed to be used against other battleships. The only additional tackle that they require is a painter - web support is not necessary against almost all BS - and even the painter is unnecessary against six of the twelve BS.
Liam Mirren
#40 - 2012-02-27 16:01:44 UTC
Not every target is a BS.

Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.