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A note to CCP from a returning player who quit during Incarna-gate

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Komen
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2012-02-26 17:29:17 UTC
Abyss Azizora wrote:
Degren wrote:
More like

TL;DR "I'm a customer and I vote with my money"


If more people did, mmos wouldn't be as awful as they are today. Was glad to see the eve community (Most anyway) cared enough to quit to show CCP how utterly disconnected with the players they had become. (Mostly just that godawful CEO Hilmar of theirs.)


Oh, Hilmar's not that bad. Look at some other studios/publishers, and their choices. While he did let arrogance over expensive pantaloons get to his head, he seems to have since mended his ways, realized the error, and refocused the company back to making ossum spezships.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, Hilmar's been there at CCP from the start, yo. So it's as much his baby as anyone else's, and maybe more. Therefore if you like Eve you're as much indebted to him as any other CCPer, and maybe more. Thus you might want to speak more politely, even while protesting (as I did) and attempting to communicate reasonably. Namecalling achieves nothing beyond lessening the namecaller.

Lastly, I too am not against Incarna per se; full bodied avatars with gameplay attached would have been fine. What we got instead (ugly dollhouses with no interaction between players and an absurdly overpriced, limited set of optional clothes for purchase for the dolls) was NOT fine - it was rather the opposite of fine. It was an appalling content-free (look I can walk around in my rusty coffin hotel pod is not content) feature that was rammed down our throats, whether we wanted it or not, in the course of said ramming replacing the hangar view which was more functional. Thankfully CCP pulled their heads free of a certain orifice and allowed everyone their choice of hangar view or captain's quarters. So those that like the CQ still have them, and those that like the hangar view have that.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2012-02-26 17:48:03 UTC
Abyss Azizora wrote:
Degren wrote:
More like

TL;DR "I'm a customer and I vote with my money"


If more people did, mmos wouldn't be as awful as they are today. Was glad to see the eve community (Most anyway) cared enough to quit to show CCP how utterly disconnected with the players they had become. (Mostly just that godawful CEO Hilmar of theirs.)


Actually you just need a company who's not as stupid as Blizzard, who can actually filter out the garbage rather than give everything bad the players asked for. I'm looking at you, WoW.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Erim Solfara
House of Solfara
#23 - 2012-02-26 17:54:31 UTC
Kale Kold wrote:
I've just re-subbed again after a few months break after quitting during the Incarna scandal. There are a few points that i want to make to CCP regarding why i, and many of my friends left, and why we are now back.

Why we left

  1. We are not your 'golden goose', take us for granted at your peril.
  2. You were obviously not working on EVE due to the poor expansions.
  3. Nex Store! This stuff should be craftable from clothing patterns (like blueprints).
  4. You showed Incana working in 2008, look at what we got in 2011! Don't lie to use with mock-ups.


Why we returned

  1. You are working on EVE again, simple as that.


Things we'll be watching

  1. Don't dumb EVE down to drag more players in.
  2. Get rid of Aurum, mt doesn't fit EVE.
  3. Please continue with Incarna.
  4. Lowsec needs some love!


I think the protests were for the best but its a shame that 200 people had to lose their jobs because of an arrogant CEO. Cry

Keep up the momentum on EVE and i look forward to the war themed expansion, Inferno in the summer. Pirate



+1 I left for a little while and returned, basically exactly in agreement with the op. (Although I'm not that fussed about lowsec personally!)

I understand that Walking in stations/ambulation/Incarna is on the back burner, and I have no issues with that if the main game is getting the attention instead. It's still an awesome goal, but rather take your time than rush it.

Just kill NEx, please?
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#24 - 2012-02-26 18:03:00 UTC
Hilmar did the right thing and it pisses people off. Everyone likes to compare WoW as the "bad" MMO, and say "look at all the players blizzard lost". WoW lost about a million people and profit went UP about 16%. Anybody that says that's a bad model to copy knows **** all about running a business. Meanwhile there's no more ways to MT in eve post Incarna than pre, just more stuff to buy, and its stuff that does not effect stats.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Kale Kold
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-02-26 18:05:29 UTC
Erim Solfara wrote:
Just kill NEx, please?

God, yes! This is the worst move ever by CCP.

“Some people call me insane for the destruction I’ve caused, ...I believe I was just doing my duty!” -- Testimony submitted to Caldari Navy war crimes tribunal.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#26 - 2012-02-26 18:15:48 UTC
Elanor Vega wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Nova Fox wrote:
(...) winter expansion may see the start of multiple charcters via CQ invites until then general improvments more characer customizations and optimizations.


Have you read something I didn't, or are you speculating? Question


Dev said that there will not be features implemented and developed that will be scraped at the end.
So, i think, no CQ invites.



CCP said that they wont start the testing on sisi until after inferno if you read the lastest blog.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Alrione
Black Lagoon Inc.
#27 - 2012-02-26 18:33:53 UTC
Erim Solfara wrote:
Just kill NEx, please?


This, +1.

I also left during the whole failcarna debacle. Lack of any effort and complete overlooking of the FIS area and slap in the face with the stupid nex system really rustled my jimmies.
CCP Phantom
C C P
C C P Alliance
#28 - 2012-02-26 19:16:15 UTC
Welcome back!

As CCP Unifex said in his recent devblog, Crucible is only the start.

CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#29 - 2012-02-26 19:19:27 UTC
Kale Kold wrote:
Erim Solfara wrote:
Just kill NEx, please?

God, yes! This is the worst move ever by CCP.


I thought the worst move ever was removing the Moons and giving them to the Goons......................

Beyond the initial pricing embarrassment, is NEX really THAT upsetting or am I missing something the past 9 months.........

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Alrione
Black Lagoon Inc.
#30 - 2012-02-26 20:23:29 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:

I thought the worst move ever was removing the Moons and giving them to the Goons......................

Beyond the initial pricing embarrassment, is NEX really THAT upsetting or am I missing something the past 9 months.........


There are as many views as there are people. Sure there are people who are not bothered at all and they probably have their reasons.

I personally feel "micro"-transactions have no place in the p2p game, EVEN if they are only cosmetic.
If this was f2p game I would have no issues with micro-transactions.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#31 - 2012-02-26 21:40:25 UTC
Alrione wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:

I thought the worst move ever was removing the Moons and giving them to the Goons......................

Beyond the initial pricing embarrassment, is NEX really THAT upsetting or am I missing something the past 9 months.........


There are as many views as there are people. Sure there are people who are not bothered at all and they probably have their reasons.

I personally feel "micro"-transactions have no place in the p2p game, EVEN if they are only cosmetic.
If this was f2p game I would have no issues with micro-transactions.


Except that we have always had micro transactions in EVE, at least since the PLEX system was introduced. The NEX store is simply a more straight forward and more granular version of it.

You can spend cash, or you can spend ISK (unlike most MT systems), for anything in the NEX... just as you can purchase anything else with cash (via PLEX) or directly with ISK.

Stop being manipulated by the people driving the band wagon with no real clue where they are going.

An argument CAN be made for putting everything in available for ISK and relying on the existing PLEX system for those wishing to spend cash instead, and it has some merit. The draw back is that it looks like this may not dove tail very well with the shared market system that will cross over with DUST. Time will tell on that one.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Katja Norolyev
Doomheim
#32 - 2012-02-26 21:45:13 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Abyss Azizora wrote:
Degren wrote:
More like

TL;DR "I'm a customer and I vote with my money"


If more people did, mmos wouldn't be as awful as they are today. Was glad to see the eve community (Most anyway) cared enough to quit to show CCP how utterly disconnected with the players they had become. (Mostly just that godawful CEO Hilmar of theirs.)


Actually you just need a company who's not as stupid as Blizzard, who can actually filter out the garbage rather than give everything bad the players asked for. I'm looking at you, WoW.


This was NOT Blizzard's fault. Blizzard produced a challenging, enveloping world that sucked you in and made you commit.

Then they were purchased by Activision.
Alrione
Black Lagoon Inc.
#33 - 2012-02-26 21:51:01 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
snip

I understand what you trying to say, but PLEX is not micro-transaction system.
The reason we have plex as it is now as it was really popular and CCP streamlined system which players had where they would exchange GTC code for ISK.
Its nothing at all like item-shop.
Katja Norolyev
Doomheim
#34 - 2012-02-26 22:16:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Katja Norolyev
Cipher Jones wrote:
Hilmar did the right thing and it pisses people off. Everyone likes to compare WoW as the "bad" MMO, and say "look at all the players blizzard lost". WoW lost about a million people and profit went UP about 16%. Anybody that says that's a bad model to copy knows **** all about running a business. Meanwhile there's no more ways to MT in eve post Incarna than pre, just more stuff to buy, and its stuff that does not effect stats.


Blizzard produced a stunning game (not marketing strategy) and an excellent first expansion for it (BC), building up a massive head of steam. Then, in 2008, they were bought out by Activision, under which they were made to release rapid-fire expansions that greiviously undermined the preceeding content. Activision rode the wave into the release of WotLK, but then a hard dip in subscriptions (which had been skyrocketing previously. Almost a 180 on the graph.) proved that this new "smart business model" was a disease.

Activision, obviously well-versed in 'running a business' as you put it, decided to trade the games' longevity for a nice quartely statement, and now they have a dying property on their hands, and don't know how to fix it. (More expansions!?)


You see, the clientele of a gaming company do not offer their patronage because the developer is a 'well run business', but because they made and maintain a kickass game. Sometimes, the best interests of a kickass game and your formulaic 'well run business' are not aligned, but in the case of a game developer, if they decide to go with the 'smart business move' at the expense of their game, ultimately they will alienate their customer base and lose everything. It's cutting open the goose that lays the golden eggs.

In short, go back to business school, kid, but this time, don't drink the kool-aid.
Rixiu
PonyTek
#35 - 2012-02-26 22:30:47 UTC
Katja Norolyev wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
*snip*

*snip*


It's 2012. The definition of a "well run business" today mean min/maxing to give you a nice quarterly result. Micro transactions is a result of this thought process and similar examples can be found were companies are cutting corners to increase short term profit in most branches...
Valentyn3
Deep Core Mining Inc.
#36 - 2012-02-26 22:33:46 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Kale Kold wrote:

  • Nex Store! This stuff should be craftable from clothing patterns (like blueprints).



    • say WWHHAATTT ???????Shocked

    Train-up Sewing to Level V ??


    -Knitting V
    -Crocheting V
    -Sewing V
    -Measuring V
    -Hot Glue Gunning V
    -Sequins V

    I don't always use hax. But when I do, it's because I'm an NPC.. http://i.imgur.com/PUZou.jpg
    FilterDecay
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #37 - 2012-02-26 22:40:45 UTC  |  Edited by: FilterDecay
    I just resubbed my 2 accounts.

    Posting on my main as I'm super serious and i agree with all points of the op.

    edit*

    I have no problem with WIS but it should be a choice.

    The canon of the back story is we are all sitting hairless in some goo with spikes in our spines. The idea that we can pop out of that crap fully clothed onto a bare metal gang walk breaks immersion for me and apparently many others.

    Personally i think there should be a cool down period for actually getting out of your pod.
    Vaerah Vahrokha
    Vahrokh Consulting
    #38 - 2012-02-26 22:50:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
    Rixiu wrote:
    Katja Norolyev wrote:
    Cipher Jones wrote:
    *snip*

    *snip*


    It's 2012. The definition of a "well run business" today mean min/maxing to give you a nice quarterly result. Micro transactions is a result of this thought process and similar examples can be found were companies are cutting corners to increase short term profit in most branches...


    And it's no suprise we are in a worldwide crysis.

    We live looking at 1 quarter ahead, like an herd of blind buffoons.

    EvE is EvE because it did NOT join the manure bandwagon.

    Me and most of the other EvE players don't give a f*ck that EvE has not 14M subs nor is as succesful as Apple.

    If EvE sold to the best bidder (like most MMOs did) then EvE would have gone ahead with the things and plans that made me and many others quit:

    - Idiotic charging 3rd party FREEWARE developers (we lost 2/3 of the old EvE apps developers including me because of this announcement).

    - Lol licensing IP for the poor sods who - at their expense - created fan web sites. Because making those who advertise your company for free pay is the definition of cool!

    - Squeezing the last cent in any way including retardum shop

    - Slamming half made, fully assed content like infamous Incarna + slammed door GTFO (not really) subliminal message.

    - Putting in AWESOME content that nobody cared about, was half made and abandoned.

    - Last but not least, EA alike, p!ss poor customer assistance. In my personal case (I got subtracted 2 months worth of subscriptions and never got them back) just the first reply from customer support arrived after 20 or so days and the whole process lasted like 2 months. 2 freaking months that in the end did not change ANYTHING.


    This is the CCP that the veteran players started to hate, a CCP that would be like this and worse if they sold out to Activision or EA. Selling a MMO to those huge boxes of manure is exactly like when a 0.0 "former relevant" alliance goes to die in NPC 0.0. No glory, no epic memories, just a slow bleeding by never-sated "shark-holders" that want MONEY NAO!


    CCP has seen what happens when they p!ss off their players, who are not as stupid as some other MMOs'.

    We even anticipated the last year debacle in this thread.

    I even posted - 1 year ago - a graph anticipating the playerbase drop.

    Can't say they did not see it coming, eh?

    EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
    Mara Rinn
    Cosmic Goo Convertor
    #39 - 2012-02-26 22:51:46 UTC
    Alrione wrote:
    PLEX is not micro-transaction system …Its nothing at all like item-shop.


    Just because many existing microtransaction systems in bind-on-equip based economies are item stores doesn't mean that all MT systems must be item stores,

    PLEX for ISK is an excellent microtransaction system, allowing you to purchase a fitted rifter with ammo for a few tens of cents,

    The particular execution of the Aurum based item store was very poor. The focus on ambulation over FiS was very poor. The severe lack of meaningful content was very poor. None of these factors influence the fact that EVE is still an awesome game.

    Day 0 Advice for New Players
    Valentyn3
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    #40 - 2012-02-26 22:52:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Valentyn3
    While I don't mind the irl cost of the items (modeling/texturing character like they have is balls hard and try it if you think it isn't) I don't feel that they should almost all be over 1 PLEX in cost. And I especially don't like to be dicked around with by those 1.2 PLEX price tags.

    "Haha, jokes on you, now you have just enough AUR left to almost buy the cheapest item in the store. Better buy another PLEX!"

    I don't always use hax. But when I do, it's because I'm an NPC.. http://i.imgur.com/PUZou.jpg