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New dev blog: Introducing Team Avatar – the keymasters of bipedal gameplay

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Daenna Chrysi
Omega Foundry Unit
Southern Legion Alliance
#221 - 2012-02-25 10:17:40 UTC
I was thinking... dangerous, yes I know... Big smile

The out of pod experience should be its own game, the stations would still be the connection between the two worlds, but the out of pod life should be its own massive sandbox.

it should be possible to transition from one game to the another, so that a pod pilot could give up flying ships for a while and still be in touch with the game. Or a player who started out of pod could become a full pilot.

former pilots should be able to produce skill books, assuming they trained the skill to lvl5 while they were a pod pilot, or do salvage alchemy and so on. Smuggle stuff in their private assets, as they hitch rides on the pilot's ships, the police at the gates wouldnt be able to see the contents of the passenger's personal effects, but then again you wouldnt be able to move a big number of goods through in that way. or players could become agents, and hand out missions to pilots and so on.

Lorewise it would work too, we pilots are supposed to be in a class of our own, the immortal elite.
Bellasarius Baxter
Zilog Enterprises
#222 - 2012-02-25 12:05:27 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

That would be great, but also would be abused to death, with mission runners learning to dial the winner dialogue options. The system would never be cunning enough to outmaster your average Human Mk.1, unless it was random... although, that could be funny as hell... I can imagine EVE Survival's tips...

"(Insert agent name) is 60% responsive to bribing, 45% responsive to harrassment and 30% responsive to sexual offers; also is 80% punitive to failed sexual offers, 60% punitive to failed harrasment and 20% punitive to failed bribing. Remember that success in triggering the lesser responsiveness will grant the higher rewards" Lol

Then, that agent would be worth trying to bribe (maximum chance to succeed and mimimum to be penalyzed), but also could give some clues... say, if is wearing expensive clothes, that means either is wiliing to get money or feels insecure... so could be good idea to bribe or harrass the agent...

Damn, I am getting carried. Lol


U do all the work for Team Avatar :-)

It wouldnt have to be huge differences in payout, so I wouldnt worry too much about abuse.
Flamespar
WarRavens
#223 - 2012-02-25 12:12:16 UTC
I think a reasonable vision for the development of the Captains Quaters is that overtime it should come to reflect the achievements of the capsuleer. Perhaps this could be done with different versions of a captains quaters becoming available as your standings with a corporation improves. It makes sense that a corp would reward a high performing mission runner in such a manner.
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#224 - 2012-02-25 12:15:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Jowen Datloran
Jowen Datloran wrote:
This dev blog is pathetic.

Simple as that.

And now that I have the time I will elaborate on that, even though we have passed page twelve. It is in some way redeeming that the majority of the player base is as clueless to what makes good gameplay as CCP is, but it also shows that asking us for what we want from WiS will bring you nowhere. Anyhow, I expect you are simple stalling for time.

I do not know how many times I have read CCP developers proudly announce how they got inspiration for the nonconsensual player vs. player conflict in EVE from Ultima Online, but obviously the gameplay behind Player Housing went straight over your head. Ever wondered why a single player game like Skyrim does Player Housing?

The reason why this dev blog is pathetic is the complete lack of understanding on what makes EVE stand out from the theme park rabble; a single persistent world where your actions directly affects other players, be those actions good or bad. How in all that is holy did you manage to turn WiS into the complete opposite; a single player instance which you cannot affect in any possible way? The Captain Quarters are in effect an abomination of a GUI which simply links you to the stuff that actually affects the EVE universe while nothing inside the CQ ever changes. I cannot even kick those stupid Quafe cans around.

This is what WiS sorely lacks; stuff that is MINE. Not mine as I own it, but mine because it bears the traits and marks of me. People are not asking for Establishments because they need a generic place to sell stuff (we already got the Market for that) but because they expect to somehow add to it in some way that signal that this is theirs and so they can show it off to others. We can talk about the possibilities of disrupting other people's activities inside WiS at another time (does necessarily have to be shooting each other in the face).

Remember small anchorable containers? Even though their storage size suggest limited usability the creative minds of players turned them into "can art" just because these item can be manipulated and have a persistence in the EVE universe. This example demostrates that you should not aim at uncovering what is "meaningful content" before releasing a feature as you will rarely be able to predict it in a sandbox MMO. Instead, you should create tools and then let the players make the content. But for this dev blog you get another "pathetic" stamp because you talk like developers of a generic theme park MMO where "fun" and "content" comes primarily from enjoying the rides that have been provided.

It is immensely depressing you to see your lack of vision for WiS especially as the thing you should do is making WiS work on the same dynamics that makes the rest of EVE great.

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#225 - 2012-02-25 12:16:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Jowen Datloran
So what could be done to improve WiS with the puny amount of resources you currently got available?

Well, you could look to your own DUST 514 and the concept of a Trophy Room. People love trophies from various deeds and it will immensely increase the feeling of "this is mine". Trophies could be a show room for corpses or being rewarded decorative items or pieces of clothing for special feats. These feats ould be a drop from some officer rat in deep space, the completion of an epic arc, getting a certificate, having scored 100 player killing blows/pod kills, there are plenty of possibilities. You need to quit the idea that the NEx should be the primary way to introduce items in WiS. Already, the clothing items introduced outside the NEx (the Quafe shirt and the "Russian" uniform) have much more appeal than those you can get in the store.

But, again, in the long run WiS needs more stuff that players can manipulate and make their own.

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

Ugleb
Jotunn Risi
#226 - 2012-02-25 14:27:30 UTC
Here is what I'd like to see done with WiS in the short to mid-term.

Captains Quarters are, and should remain, single player environments. They'd need to be re-designed to accomodate more than one avatar.

There needs to be a basic multi-player environment added. Even if it is purely decorative.

This could be a corp office, a public gallery or whatever. We simply need a space on the other side of that door where we can encounter and 'meet with' other player avatars. Test the basic technology, see what players think of it.

Frankly, I'd support a single relatively large room dominated by a massive version of the CQ's viewscreen where I can walk up to another players avatar and open a convo or trade window. If you can stick a window in showing the system's background nebulae/starfield/the planet below (not a live view of the outside, that would kill the server) then that would be sweet.

Get that most basic form of functionality/eye candy in and go from there.

http://uglebsjournal.wordpress.com/

The Jotunn Risi are now recruiting, Brutor ancestry required in order to best represent the Brutor interest.  Join channel JORIS to learn more!

Traidir
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#227 - 2012-02-25 20:24:10 UTC
There's an interesting contradiction in this effort. It requires an insular activity that involves only a few people, but which can influence the sandbox on a large scale. I think I have just such an idea:

Station Maintenance Technician/Chief

Agents in the station would vend "Station Maintenance" missions to those WiS. These missions would involve anywhere from a single pilot to a large group of technicians. They would need to wander the stations servicing various sectors (there's a potential here for instanced game play, though it wouldn't necessarily be required... techs could easily show up needing to work on a pub's stage lighting or a docking hanger's hydraulics systems). These missions would require certain skills from those who participate (skills that exist in game already, like engineering, electronics, jury rigging, and mechanic for instance). Additionally higher levels of these skills would impart unique abilities not granted those with only basic skills (for example a tech with jury rigging 5 might be able to do a job in 30 seconds that, properly done with Mechanic 5, would take 5 minutes). The actual missions themselves could consist of various mini-games, which can have all kinds of levels of complexity: from a simple game of "memory" or (even worse) connect-the-dots, to tuning a filter network, to designing a power distribution network, to figuring out how to connect pipe A to manifold B without disconnecting very important power conduit C (whatever you do though, don't make it a "click the widget" game).

Failure to achieve these seemingly unimportant missions could have large scale consequences. Indeed, this introduces a meta-gaming element where people intentionally do something horrible: "WHAT?! Tech Team A "accidentally" cut the power conduit to the station sentry gun targeting systems, and Tech Team B just reported a medical emergency at the docking bay doors? Gee, I hope no-one outside was counting on the sentry guns or docking for the next 5 minutes while the backups kick in." How's that for violent griefing? Such actions would, of course, mangle one's faction standing with the station and probably get one fired, but it could be SO worth it.

Stations who see very little traffic may slowly begin to lose services or the quality of the service they provide. This would also help to give a more plausible reason for why a low sec station has lower refinery efficiency: those clunky maintenance bots just cant keep up with the abuse and no one's ever around the fix the big problems.

Also, usage could determine the rate of decay. therefore stations like Jita would require vastly more maintenance crews (which would justify the greater number of missions they'd likely be giving out). Additionally, the repair needs could interact with each other through a "depletion layer" just like Planetary Interaction. That could even be the basis for a more dynamic type of maintenance mission where multiple teams or individuals working separately have to interact with the "maintenance layer" in order to accomplish goals (kind of like incursions).

For example:
Team A has to get the comms relay back up and running
-> in order to do that Team B has to repair the atmosphere scrubbers in section D
-> unfortunately section D has no gravity right now and no one can figure out what the problem is
-> until Team C fixes the internal sensors
-> and if the comms arn't sorted out in the next 30 minutes, a bunch of capsuleers wont be able to talk to their mission agents for the next hour.

Thus a social dynamic is created; there's potential for immediate (face to face) interaction as well as distributed game play. The ecosystem has the potential to have wide effects on the sandbox as a whole, while still being completely optional. The places with high populations will naturally benefit, and a human landscape of well maintained (as well as seedy) stations will evolve.

P.S.
Another, optional idea that could fit into this is "Station Docking Fees" to fund the Station Maintenance Budget and create an isk sink/source dichotomy between maintenance and usage.

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#228 - 2012-02-25 20:39:57 UTC
Regarding the avatars, it's quite simple, CCP.

When you first released the news about Ambulation/WiS etc, there was a video being shown at a Fanfest where we were supposed to be able to walk out from our CQ, visit "social environments" like players shops, bars, corporation headquarters etc.

I know you have said that there have been issues regarding deployment of this, you don't know how to handle big scale environment etc yet (or whatever the reason was, something along those lines). That can be arranged by having a cap on how many people visit certain rooms. It might mean that corridors to certain areas will be locked down yes, and I can see this might be The Reason to why you don't want/can't do this, but - this is what you should/must look into.

CQ, WiS and any kind of characters in stations in EVE is completely useless, and won't deliver what we were expecting and looking forward to. You know many of us (me included) don't really care much for anything outside of what happens in space, but we can see why social interactions in stations would be appealing - and we/me/many of us know players who are longing exactly for that.

We know what the mistake you did with Incarna was - releasing WiS without any content.
We know how you can solve WiS and make it appealing - releasing in-station social interaction, including such things as corporation headquarters/offices, player owned shops, bars, etc.

It really is that simple.

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.

Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#229 - 2012-02-25 21:27:30 UTC
Misanth wrote:
Regarding the avatars, it's quite simple, CCP.

When you first released the news about Ambulation/WiS etc, there was a video being shown at a Fanfest where we were supposed to be able to walk out from our CQ, visit "social environments" like players shops, bars, corporation headquarters etc.

I know you have said that there have been issues regarding deployment of this, you don't know how to handle big scale environment etc yet (or whatever the reason was, something along those lines). That can be arranged by having a cap on how many people visit certain rooms. It might mean that corridors to certain areas will be locked down yes, and I can see this might be The Reason to why you don't want/can't do this, but - this is what you should/must look into.

CQ, WiS and any kind of characters in stations in EVE is completely useless, and won't deliver what we were expecting and looking forward to. You know many of us (me included) don't really care much for anything outside of what happens in space, but we can see why social interactions in stations would be appealing - and we/me/many of us know players who are longing exactly for that.

We know what the mistake you did with Incarna was - releasing WiS without any content.
We know how you can solve WiS and make it appealing - releasing in-station social interaction, including such things as corporation headquarters/offices, player owned shops, bars, etc.

It really is that simple.


They can't do it. They invested a lot on it and burned their fingers once. Now they're too scared to proceed in any direction and took another timeout to internally think some more on a project, that has already been worked on for years. It was a good decision though and will propably do good in the end, but it also highlights what a giant mess the management of the project had become. This part of the project should really have been a done deal long time ago, with satisfactory implementation of that vision the only hurdle left to overcome.
Sylthi
Coreward Pan-Galactic
#230 - 2012-02-25 21:42:50 UTC
So..... basically..... we are supposed to wait ANOTHER 5-7 YEARS (or rather an undisclosed indeterminate amount of time) for..... what? Another single room?

Yeah, not on my sub money you don't.

But, check, heard you loud and clear: "Wait like the good little sheep you are and pay us more for less."

Same old CCP.

Out.

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#231 - 2012-02-25 23:18:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Misanth
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
Misanth wrote:
Regarding the avatars, it's quite simple, CCP.

When you first released the news about Ambulation/WiS etc, there was a video being shown at a Fanfest where we were supposed to be able to walk out from our CQ, visit "social environments" like players shops, bars, corporation headquarters etc.

I know you have said that there have been issues regarding deployment of this, you don't know how to handle big scale environment etc yet (or whatever the reason was, something along those lines). That can be arranged by having a cap on how many people visit certain rooms. It might mean that corridors to certain areas will be locked down yes, and I can see this might be The Reason to why you don't want/can't do this, but - this is what you should/must look into.

CQ, WiS and any kind of characters in stations in EVE is completely useless, and won't deliver what we were expecting and looking forward to. You know many of us (me included) don't really care much for anything outside of what happens in space, but we can see why social interactions in stations would be appealing - and we/me/many of us know players who are longing exactly for that.

We know what the mistake you did with Incarna was - releasing WiS without any content.
We know how you can solve WiS and make it appealing - releasing in-station social interaction, including such things as corporation headquarters/offices, player owned shops, bars, etc.

It really is that simple.


They can't do it. They invested a lot on it and burned their fingers once. Now they're too scared to proceed in any direction and took another timeout to internally think some more on a project, that has already been worked on for years. It was a good decision though and will propably do good in the end, but it also highlights what a giant mess the management of the project had become. This part of the project should really have been a done deal long time ago, with satisfactory implementation of that vision the only hurdle left to overcome.


I'm not saying that CCP will make this. I'm saying they should.

The only way avatars in EVE will be useful, in any way, is in any form of social interaction. If there won't be any social interaction, it's complete and utter garbage, just an extended character creator (which ironicly, is what the blog is pointing at now).

And no, CCP did not "invested a lot on it and burned their fingers". They spent six? years releasing zero content. If they had invested alot of time and actually delivered.. something.. (right now it's nothign), it would potentially have 'burned their fingers'. Now, they just did nothing for six years and wasted alot of money on it.

It's quite simple: content. Why do you think Tetris is still a great game after all these years? Pac Man? I'll take that pixeled game over walking around in my CQ any day. I'll play my Super Cars 2 on my Amiga 500, or hell Asteroids or River Raid on the Atari 2600 - no matter how pixeled. Because it's content. It has something. And that's why CCP delivered "nothing". There was no content.

That's why this is so simple too. It's all about content. Fancy looks die. I mean, I loved the looks and controls in the Gears of War series, but a game that has several cinematics and still end after 10 hours gameplay is utter garbage. EVE is an MMO that's been on the market for 9 years, and doesn't seem to die just yet. So there's plenty of incentitives to look at long-lasting content. Avatars that interact socially in stations might very well be a way to make an "EVE 2" without actually making a new game. And it's a solid platform for World of Vampires. But then CCP needs to stop being butthurt, looking at the quick/easy solutions (like the latest expansion, no long term effects and good stuff, just bug fixed and shortterm balancing that will create issues - I'm looking at your supercaps and hybrids).

CCP needs to realise this. It's not rocket science. Simple.
Content. Lastability. Profit.

(edit; this means that Team Avatar should completely drop their work if they're just focusing on the character creator, it already works and is quite decent, it'd make alot more sense to work on real lasting content. Boosts to mining, major nerf to highsec income, make incentitives to go to null, stop promoting superblobs - in all ways, super balancing, nullsec upgrade fortresses, jumpbridges, fw changes, etc - make incentitives to spread out in null. If CCP really want to stick to working on these 'avatars' they have made, they need to create content for it, period, and that means social interaction, anything else is complete and utter waste of time and repeat of history/mistakes they already done)

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.

Erik Finnegan
Polytechnique Gallenteenne
#232 - 2012-02-25 23:56:48 UTC
I like the WiS idea. And I do not think that RP needs a lot of game mechanic to play fine. The meaning to it builds up in your head.
Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
#233 - 2012-02-26 00:42:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Terranid Meester
Corp/alliance logo as an arm tattoo? Back tattoos? Where are our hats?

Personally I believe there should both be economic & physical pvp in-stations. Let us use the DUST 514 weapons in stations.
Of course WIS is so far reaching, that almost anything is possible. Maybe inspiration from Planetside and Tribes should be taken into account as well as DUST 514. The mass effect series too I reckon.

In terms of pvp would we finally be able to shoot our enemies jump clones/clones ala planetside? Can we camp players in their cabins? Of course players should still be able to do a lot more things in the quarters. Maybe various entrances to different parts of the stations so camping is less easy. Can you hack into a players trading interface and damage their finances? Sabotage their ships while they are docked by implanting a virus?

I personally think players should police their own. Poison a players quafe ultra to damage them when they swallow? Don't like being defeated in mindclash, just pull out a pistol to shoot your opponent in the head unless they have a firearm inhibitor around.
I also like the way in some games you can push npcs out of the way. You should be able to do that to players.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#234 - 2012-02-26 05:04:57 UTC
Jowen Datloran wrote:
...trophies...


We have medals in game that hardly anyone ever uses or cares about. Let us pin them on our avatars or have a display on the wall where we can show them off or at least stare at them and reminisce.

I hope WiS becomes something worthwhile.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#235 - 2012-02-26 06:28:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Terranid Meester wrote:
Corp/alliance logo as an arm tattoo? Back tattoos? Where are our hats?

Personally I believe there should both be economic & physical pvp in-stations. Let us use the DUST 514 weapons in stations.
Of course WIS is so far reaching, that almost anything is possible. Maybe inspiration from Planetside and Tribes should be taken into account as well as DUST 514. The mass effect series too I reckon.

In terms of pvp would we finally be able to shoot our enemies jump clones/clones ala planetside? Can we camp players in their cabins? Of course players should still be able to do a lot more things in the quarters. Maybe various entrances to different parts of the stations so camping is less easy. Can you hack into a players trading interface and damage their finances? Sabotage their ships while they are docked by implanting a virus?

I personally think players should police their own. Poison a players quafe ultra to damage them when they swallow? Don't like being defeated in mindclash, just pull out a pistol to shoot your opponent in the head unless they have a firearm inhibitor around.
I also like the way in some games you can push npcs out of the way. You should be able to do that to players.


Corp/Alliance tatoo's... I like that. Smile

Including NPC types.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#236 - 2012-02-26 06:29:36 UTC
Sylthi wrote:
So..... basically..... we are supposed to wait ANOTHER 5-7 YEARS (or rather an undisclosed indeterminate amount of time) for..... what? Another single room?

Yeah, not on my sub money you don't.

But, check, heard you loud and clear: "Wait like the good little sheep you are and pay us more for less."

Same old CCP.

Out.



1: We aren't paying any more.

2: We haven't gotten any less, quite the contrary.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#237 - 2012-02-26 06:58:54 UTC
I would like some minigames. And corporation office with heads of the most notable enemies of the corporation mounted on the wall.

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.

Gyges Skyeye
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#238 - 2012-02-26 11:49:30 UTC
Please create a public test server, separate from Singularity, with flying in space disabled. Use this to show your rapid prototyping to the players to garner feedback without having as many technical and apologetic-for-bugs hurdles to overcome in doing so.

Quote:
We will then create playable gameplay prototypes of gameplay features and try them out within the team, and within the company.


I just want to say 'Beware the Ides of March'. This logic of internal debut is kind of what got CCP's avatar program to this point, one backburner team remaining, in the first place. The longer you have this project in internal mode, the greater the divergence of player expectations and probable product will be. Simply put, the best way to figure out if we the players will find your ideas to be meaningful experiences is to place them in an accessible place for interested players to access.

To illustrate it with humor, until you flat out go shopping with us the players to buy our christmas presents, you CCP will continue to be the Aunt who thinks that handknit sweater is just so lovely! We will shuffle our feet and say 'Aww shucks, thanks Auntie.' Just like we did for the sweater last year. The unsubscriptions will show the real story.

So yeah, set up a public walking server and come shopping with us. Without that, there's going to be a lot wasted effort in shopping for presents.
Tjo Sephagen
Perkone
Caldari State
#239 - 2012-02-26 15:35:00 UTC
Say, while we're at it, can we fix all the bugs with the character creator?

Let's shoot for the background loading 100% of the time.

Oh, and my face. Let's get the quality up to the point where we can load my face 100% of the time.

Oh, wait and lights! It would be great if the lighting loaded 100% of the time too.

So to recap: the character creator should 1) load the character, 2) load the lighting, and 3) load the background.

Then I think it's safe to work on other stuff.
Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din
Commonwealth Vanguard
#240 - 2012-02-26 15:37:46 UTC
I want to own a bar and I dont want to pay for it in Aurum either. It isnt much to ask really :)

But seriously, yeah bars and clubs, with technology and guards that totally disallow weapons from being carried but you can get into a good solid punch up should you want to. No lasting damage just a few knocked out people and so on. Non lethal combat is more likley to be acceptable even though killing would clearly be more fun.

maybe make it optional in any particular player owned environment wether weapons are confiscated during your visit, so some places could be very dangerous to go, mayb ehave hireable bouncers who break up fights so no one gets badly hurt, lots of options, but we need to hav eplaces to go when you are camped in and dont want to just spin your ship...

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.