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( ABSTAIN at very bottom) CSM is only a meta game with ramifications - other options when voting.

First post
Author
Jenshae Chiroptera
#201 - 2012-02-20 23:13:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
None ofthe Above wrote:

Drakes: No you! The idea of finding whatever is working in this game and beating it with a nerf bat until its works as poorly as everything else is misguided. Turning the Drake into a big Caracal is not going to make this game better.
.


This was one of the things I discussed in a thread and I started out with "nerf the Drake" however, we came around to agreeing that we need to buff the tier 1 battle cruisers so that there are no tiers.

Drake in my opinion is a bit over powered for what it is, gets more tank than a battleship, however, I thought it could do with maybe a three percent instead of a five percent resists bonus. Just knock its tank down a bit then give its damage a bit of a boost so that it goes to maybe 550 DPS average instead of 512.

Skex Relbore wrote:

Even ignoring that, I still maintain that there just aren't that many people who are interested in the process yet are unwilling to get behind some candidate or another because most of those abstaining aren't doing so in protest, they're doing so because they can't be arsed to pay attention.


I agree with you to a point. There are a lot of people that I talk to, who look at the CSM, sneer and say that they are still PR rubbish or that EVE is a game and when the CSM ruins it they will just go onto the next one. They don't want anything to do with the politics and don't care about the candidates.
A strong theme is that they seem to feel that players being involved is like the accountant standing over the mechanic while he works on the car and telling him how to do his job. We are players, not game designers.

However, the largest sentiment is "Why bother? We can't change anything with our votes." So, I am lobbying for them to at the very least have a way to show they aren't apathetic and that they believe that the CSM or the people running for it are not what they want.

Even if it is a dismal failure and only one percent of the votes went into an abstain / dismiss / ignore this years candidates / suspend for a year and a list of other options at least they would have had the chance to vote in some opposing stance, then blame can rest squarely on the players' shoulders.
"CCP you ruined the game!" - "No, we gave you the opportunity and you did not speak up."

---

As for running for CSM? EVE already takes up far too much time and I am quite weary of MMOs.
I put a lot of time and effort into Anarchy Online, I was talking to the developers on a nearly daily basis, still am with some. I ran events and I worked with the volunteers (similar to ISD) at one point they were considering me to work on their databases as an employee but the Oslo to Montreal move came up and their recruitment policies changed. I also ran two organisations that would be on about the level of EWOKs, known and moderately successful server wide.

... and quite honestly, I just don't have the enthusiasm any more. I am jaded from the years of playing MMOs and all the different ones that I have been in.

I joked about running for CSM and I think I could get in with just one line, "If you hate one of the candidates - then vote for and inflict me on them for a year." Twisted

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

None ofthe Above
#202 - 2012-02-20 23:38:17 UTC  |  Edited by: None ofthe Above
Skex Relbore wrote:

I'm just pointing out that from a practical standpoint such an option would actually have no bearing on the eventual outcome of such a contest.

For one while the representatives may be selected in something resembling a democratic manner the existence of the CSM is by the sole will of CCP. CCP declared "THE CSM SHALL BE" so even if a "none of the above" option won the majority it would simply be discarded and the next runner up selected.


Ah sure. If they decided the meaning of that ballot winning would be set aside, then it would have no bearing on the makeup of the CSM. It would just look pretty stupid.

Other ways to deal with a none of the above "win" would be to clear out the election take a good look at what you are doing, make some changes and try again.

Quote:

Even ignoring that, I still maintain that there just aren't that many people who are interested in the process yet are unwilling to get behind some candidate or another because most of those abstaining aren't doing so in protest, they're doing so because they can't be arsed to pay attention.

I know it's only natural to assume that because you think a thing that there must be some silent army out there who agree with you, but most the time that just isn't the case.


You may have me confused with the OP. I am here discussing how to frame the call for action for the OP to get what is desired if the silent army exists that agrees with her. I had another agenda with my candidacy which I don't feel I need to elaborate here as it's off topic.

My agenda here is to largely tell people to vote in the CSM election and dissuade people from abstaining as a misguided attempt to send a message.

Quote:

Consider this, only a very small minority of the player base cares enough to even bother reading the forums, of that minority only a small minority bother following the CSM elections at all. Of that tiny minority only a vanishingly small minority support your "non of the above" option.

I mean if you really want to lodge a protest vote just vote for one of the joke candidates and be done with it. Or hell just do a Richard Pryor from Brewster's Millions and run your own joke campaign. You have the name for it after all.

Oh wait you did, just missed it at first since your candidacy post is sitting on page 3, Which should give you a decent indicator on how much good such an option on the ballot would do.

You couldn't even garner the 100 votes needed to get on the ballot after the Goons were told to go support every long shot troll to put up a candidacy in order to dilute the butthurt vote. and if you can't get as many votes for you as the joke candidates like Xenuria or the racists like Fon Revedhort what makes you think there are enough people who'd be bothered to vote "none of the above" to affect anything?


Yep, quite right. I missed the first wave of goon likes entering too late as I deliberated. When I entered, I entered with a big question mark, asking if I was needed. Fon is interesting since he entered after I did, but had a compelling enough addition to the circus to still bring out the goon vote.

It turns out the goons don't want None of the Above. I find that interesting in itself, but yes not enough other people wanted it, so likely not going to happen.

I am okay with that since I've found candidates I can get behind.

I don't find it however, a compelling argument against including an actual "None of the Above" vote. Your arguments are somewhat circular in nature and don't hold water to me.

If CCP wanted to "dare to be bold", they'd include it and bet on the vote validating their position. If None of the Above ever did win, it would be a wake up call that some retooling was needed.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#203 - 2012-02-21 00:26:39 UTC
Why would CCP want to "dare to be bold," in the first place?

It's a catch phrase that sounds good, not an actual guiding tenet of their business practice.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

None ofthe Above
#204 - 2012-02-21 00:32:47 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Why would CCP want to "dare to be bold," in the first place?

It's a catch phrase that sounds good, not an actual guiding tenet of their business practice.


Surely the incomparable Lyris Nairn can come up with a better contribution to this thread than this bitter vet cynical snark?

During campaign season even?

Take it back and try again.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.

None ofthe Above
#205 - 2012-02-21 00:37:00 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
None ofthe Above wrote:

Drakes: No you! The idea of finding whatever is working in this game and beating it with a nerf bat until its works as poorly as everything else is misguided. Turning the Drake into a big Caracal is not going to make this game better.
.


This was one of the things I discussed in a thread and I started out with "nerf the Drake" however, we came around to agreeing that we need to buff the tier 1 battle cruisers so that there are no tiers.

Drake in my opinion is a bit over powered for what it is, gets more tank than a battleship, however, I thought it could do with maybe a three percent instead of a five percent resists bonus. Just knock its tank down a bit then give its damage a bit of a boost so that it goes to maybe 550 DPS average instead of 512.


Almost where I could agree with you and then you restart your nerf Drake thread, pretty much from scratch. Ugh, not going to engage.

Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:

Skex Relbore wrote:

Even ignoring that, I still maintain that there just aren't that many people who are interested in the process yet are unwilling to get behind some candidate or another because most of those abstaining aren't doing so in protest, they're doing so because they can't be arsed to pay attention.


I agree with you to a point. There are a lot of people that I talk to, who look at the CSM, sneer and say that they are still PR rubbish or that EVE is a game and when the CSM ruins it they will just go onto the next one. They don't want anything to do with the politics and don't care about the candidates.
A strong theme is that they seem to feel that players being involved is like the accountant standing over the mechanic while he works on the car and telling him how to do his job. We are players, not game designers.

However, the largest sentiment is "Why bother? We can't change anything with our votes." So, I am lobbying for them to at the very least have a way to show they aren't apathetic and that they believe that the CSM or the people running for it are not what they want.

Even if it is a dismal failure and only one percent of the votes went into an abstain / dismiss / ignore this years candidates / suspend for a year and a list of other options at least they would have had the chance to vote in some opposing stance, then blame can rest squarely on the players' shoulders.
"CCP you ruined the game!" - "No, we gave you the opportunity and you did not speak up."

---

As for running for CSM? EVE already takes up far too much time and I am quite weary of MMOs.
I put a lot of time and effort into Anarchy Online, I was talking to the developers on a nearly daily basis, still am with some. I ran events and I worked with the volunteers (similar to ISD) at one point they were considering me to work on their databases as an employee but the Oslo to Montreal move came up and their recruitment policies changed. I also ran two organisations that would be on about the level of EWOKs, known and moderately successful server wide.

... and quite honestly, I just don't have the enthusiasm any more. I am jaded from the years of playing MMOs and all the different ones that I have been in.

I joked about running for CSM and I think I could get in with just one line, "If you hate one of the candidates - then vote for and inflict me on them for a year." Twisted


Oh so you actually are burned out and apathetic. My mistake, I thought you passionately looking to find a way to make a difference.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#206 - 2012-02-21 01:15:58 UTC
None ofthe Above wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Why would CCP want to "dare to be bold," in the first place?

It's a catch phrase that sounds good, not an actual guiding tenet of their business practice.


Surely the incomparable Lyris Nairn can come up with a better contribution to this thread than this bitter vet cynical snark?

During campaign season even?

Take it back and try again.

There's nothing bitter about calling a spade a spade.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#207 - 2012-02-21 01:16:31 UTC
"Elegant" is just an inelegant word meaning "simple".

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Jenshae Chiroptera
#208 - 2012-02-21 23:39:41 UTC
None ofthe Above wrote:

Oh so you actually are burned out and apathetic. My mistake, I thought you passionately looking to find a way to make a difference.


I am as this highlight points out

Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:

Even if it is a dismal failure and only one percent of the votes went into an abstain / dismiss / ignore this years candidates / suspend for a year and a list of other options at least they would have had the chance to vote in some opposing stance, then blame can rest squarely on the players' shoulders.
"CCP you ruined the game!" - "No, we gave you the opportunity and you did not speak up."


Trying to create the opportunity for others to be heard and make a difference. Little steps Smile

Replies are going to be short from today, for awhile - I was in hospital and typing is now difficult.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

JitaJolie
Paradox Technologies
#209 - 2012-02-21 23:52:17 UTC
I would consider using one of my accounts to cast a no confidence vote on a particular candidate. perhaps it is not furthering democracy but rather saying "I don't care who you pick, just not 'this' guy"
None ofthe Above
#210 - 2012-02-21 23:54:25 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
None ofthe Above wrote:

Oh so you actually are burned out and apathetic. My mistake, I thought you passionately looking to find a way to make a difference.


I am as this highlight points out

Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:

Even if it is a dismal failure and only one percent of the votes went into an abstain / dismiss / ignore this years candidates / suspend for a year and a list of other options at least they would have had the chance to vote in some opposing stance, then blame can rest squarely on the players' shoulders.
"CCP you ruined the game!" - "No, we gave you the opportunity and you did not speak up."


Trying to create the opportunity for others to be heard and make a difference. Little steps Smile

Replies are going to be short from today, for awhile - I was in hospital and typing is now difficult.


Sorry to hear about the hospital trip, hope you get better soon.

As for the topic of this thread, I maintain that your proposal hinders anyone who follows it to be heard. Anyone following it is literally not "speaking up".

I would encourage anyone who is unhappy with the existence and/or form of the CSM to vote for Tiger Would

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=66277

At this point, its the only real protest vote worth considering, and not voting sends no message. It gets lost in the sea of apathy that is the general rule of the EVE playerbase.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.

Jenshae Chiroptera
#211 - 2012-02-22 00:00:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
None ofthe Above wrote:

I would encourage anyone who is unhappy with the existence and/or form of the CSM to vote for Tiger Would
.


My post is voting as for your suggestion I see it as fuelling a broken system.

Thoughts / suspicions, "Tiger is a trick and when he is in CSM nothing holds him to his promises."

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

None ofthe Above
#212 - 2012-02-22 02:58:45 UTC  |  Edited by: None ofthe Above
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
None ofthe Above wrote:

I would encourage anyone who is unhappy with the existence and/or form of the CSM to vote for Tiger Would
.


My post is voting as for your suggestion I see it as fuelling a broken system.

Thoughts / suspicions, "Tiger is a trick and when he is in CSM nothing holds him to his promises."


It doesn't really matter on some levels what Tiger does or does not do. Could he be worse than what happens when you don't vote? Possibly, but no real indication of that.

More importantly: The message would already have been sent, which is what you where trying to accomplish anyway, yes?

In the end, its your choice, even if you make one I can't really comprehend. Just wanted to make the argument.

Hope you recover from whatever is ailing you quickly.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.

None ofthe Above
#213 - 2012-02-22 03:03:34 UTC
Oh and for the record...

... I support the inclusion of Abstain, a binding None of the Above, and Request to Disband options.

But while they are not there, I encourage everyone to vote their favorite candidate (Hans, FTW) or Tiger Would as a protest vote.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.

Jenshae Chiroptera
#214 - 2012-02-22 12:22:37 UTC
None ofthe Above wrote:
Oh and for the record...
... I support the inclusion of Abstain, a binding None of the Above, and Request to Disband options.
.


Added suspend to OP bullet points.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Jenshae Chiroptera
#215 - 2012-02-22 23:53:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Have I won? Shocked

Almost half a day without any Kittens playing with this thread. Big smile

Give the wildest conspiracy reasons why they are suddenly keeping quiet! Bear

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Alavaria Fera
Imperial Shipment
#216 - 2012-02-23 00:14:03 UTC
Got bored? Busy being blown up?

Ooh, I got one. Don't give a damn anymore. Sort of like a forums-based version of apathy.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Jenshae Chiroptera
#217 - 2012-02-23 00:37:27 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Got bored? Busy being blown up?

Ooh, I got one. Don't give a damn anymore. Sort of like a forums-based version of apathy.


Those are too obvious. I said, "wild conspiracies" P

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Jenshae Chiroptera
#218 - 2012-02-24 15:40:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
What a surprise, at a glance, Test Alliance x2 , Noir, Volition Cult, AAA, Goons x2, Pandemic x2, xxDeath, Razor, Darkside - another year to look forward to with null sec dominance of CSM. Roll

*sigh.* I get so tired of being CassandraUgh

Quote:

... grant her the gift of prophecy. ...
... placed a curse on her so that no one would ever believe her predictions. She is a figure both of the epic tradition and of tragedy, where her combination of deep understanding and powerlessness exemplify the ironic condition of humankind ...


At least, when people slowly start waking up and crying all over the place, I can use this to rub their faces in it. Twisted

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

None ofthe Above
#219 - 2012-02-24 15:46:16 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
What a surprise, at a glance, Test Alliance x2 , Noir, Volition Cult, AAA, Goons x2, Pandemic x2, xxDeath, Razor, Darkside - another year to look forward to with null sec dominance of CSM. Roll

*sigh.* I get so tired of being CassandraUgh

Quote:

... grant her the gift of prophecy. ...
... placed a curse on her so that no one would ever believe her predictions. She is a figure both of the epic tradition and of tragedy, where her combination of deep understanding and powerlessness exemplify the ironic condition of humankind ...


At least, when people slowly start waking up and crying all over the place, I can use this to rub their faces in it. Twisted


Is that the goal?

Cause, sorry to say, a CSM that doesn't represent you is a self-fulfilling prophecy when you are preaching abstention.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.

Jenshae Chiroptera
#220 - 2012-02-24 16:10:04 UTC
None ofthe Above wrote:

Is that the goal?

Cause, sorry to say, a CSM that doesn't represent you is a self-fulfilling prophecy when you are preaching abstention.


CSM removal and compromise with "These people do not represent me."

GMs would be more impartial, especially since they usually apply for a public relations and not a gaming job. They could play in Jove space to get the hang of the game and understand which ideas are good to put forward from the forums., while greeting new players.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.