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Facilities needed for P3 production.

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Amar Azaph
Doomheim
#1 - 2011-09-20 16:47:35 UTC
I have oxide being produced at a gas planet and coolant being produced at another gas planet.
I want to make Condensates, so have I got this right ?
Set up a launchpad, command center and an advanced production gas facility at another gas planet. I then import the oxide and coolant from my other gas planets, route both from the launch pad to the advanced facility and then route the end product back to the launch pad?
Sound about right?

For my part I know nothing with any certainty, but the sight of the stars makes me dream.
Joshua Vaughn Lampen
Archer Investments Initiative
#2 - 2011-09-20 17:42:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Joshua Vaughn Lampen
Amar Azaph wrote:
I have oxide being produced at a gas planet and coolant being produced at another gas planet.
I want to make Condensates, so have I got this right ?
Set up a launchpad, command center and an advanced production gas facility at another gas planet. I then import the oxide and coolant from my other gas planets, route both from the launch pad to the advanced facility and then route the end product back to the launch pad?
Sound about right?


Yes you have the right idea. However make sure you work out the math to determine whether that is the most profitable PI method. A P3 product is not always more valuable than its P2 inputs.

Using Jita Prices:

-> (Oxide Buy Price + Coolant Buy Price) x 10 = X.XX ISK
-> (4511.23 + 7163.37) x 10 = 116746 ISK

You'll make 116746 ISK from selling the P2 units directly to the market.

If you further manufacture them into Condensates:

10 P2 Units of Coolant and Oxides = 3 P3 Units of Condensates

-> Current Jita Buy Price Per Unit of Condensates = 37,500.00 ISK
-> 37,500 x 3 = 112500 ISK

Realistically you're going to lose money exporting the P2 products, importing them to the P3 production planet and then exporting the finished products.

It's really not worth the extra work to manufacture condensates unless you really need them for a specific purpose.

Obviously you can make more money if you sell the condensates via a sell order on the market though:

-> Current Jita Buy Price Per Unit of Condensates = 41,963.00 ISK
-> 41,963.00 x 3 = 125889 ISK

However you need to factor in all the customs charges, broker, market, and transportation costs into all this and determine whether its worthwhile for you to do it.
Amar Azaph
Doomheim
#3 - 2011-09-20 18:30:37 UTC
Cheers for that, I'll stick to the P2 stuff I think.

For my part I know nothing with any certainty, but the sight of the stars makes me dream.
CCP Zymurgist
C C P
C C P Alliance
#4 - 2011-09-20 18:35:19 UTC
One option you have is if you have enough CPU on your first planet you could create a factory there to save time having to manually fly materials from one planet to another. Although sometimes it is more efficient to move between planets, If you do decide to keep it localized keep in mind that it isn't always a good idea to route directly from a factory or extractor to a factory, best to use a buffer like a storage unit or even the launchpad.

Also, if you haven't learned how to make a spreadsheet now is the best time to start! Just look at all that math in Joshua's post! PI has taught me more about spreadsheets than any other part of EVE.

Zymurgist Community Representative CCP NA, EVE Online Contact Us at http://support.eveonline.com/pages/petitions/createpetition.aspx
Joshua Vaughn Lampen
Archer Investments Initiative
#5 - 2011-09-20 19:07:04 UTC
CCP Zymurgist wrote:
One option you have is if you have enough CPU on your first planet you could create a factory there to save time having to manually fly materials from one planet to another. Although sometimes it is more efficient to move between planets, If you do decide to keep it localized keep in mind that it isn't always a good idea to route directly from a factory or extractor to a factory, best to use a buffer like a storage unit or even the launchpad.

Also, if you haven't learned how to make a spreadsheet now is the best time to start! Just look at all that math in Joshua's post! PI has taught me more about spreadsheets than any other part of EVE.


Zymurgist makes a good point. To be efficient in PI you have to use every single unit of CPU and Powergrid that your command center is currently producing. Setting up planets really is a learn-by-doing activity, but make sure you look at CCP's videos on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKnObxB9XCs

Planetary Interaction is what got me interested in EVE and developing highly efficient production chains takes a reasonable amount of math and thought. And like Zymurgist said if you don't know how to make a spreadsheet you should start now. I have several running/in development at any given time depending on what I'm doing and while they take several hours to develop at times(my PI spreadsheet took about 15 hours to complete) but it makes everything you do far more profitable. After I finished making my spreadsheet I figured out how to boost my profits by 800%!
Loki Sei
#6 - 2011-09-20 19:52:07 UTC
I also started PI looking to always make the "highest" level product possible, until I also put pin to paper and found that a lot of PI products don't sell for crap, and many P3 level products contain a lot of "cheap" PI stuff.

Assuming you are extracting, the best thing to do is simply look at your planets, see what resources are abundant and what they sell for. Then extract what sells for the most.

Example. If you have a two planets and planet 1 has X that sells for 400 per unit as a P1, but the best spot is not able to keep 6 factories running, but planet 2 has Y that sells for 300 per unit and easily keeps 9 factories running, it is better to make Y.

The only reason i know to convert P1 to P2 and P3 when there is no real profit, is mass reduction. By taking P1 materials to P3 it is much easier to haul and could present an overall saving to your operation. How will you know that. Oh yeah, make a spreadsheet.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2011-09-20 20:17:26 UTC
Loki Sei wrote:


The only reason i know to convert P1 to P2 and P3 when there is no real profit, is mass reduction. By taking P1 materials to P3 it is much easier to haul and could present an overall saving to your operation. How will you know that. Oh yeah, make a spreadsheet.


This can be critical, especially if you do PI in WH space, as hauling to market can quickly eat up a lot of time.
Wa'roun
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2011-09-20 20:31:19 UTC
I want to like PI but the advanced math / analytical thinking keeps me from doing much with it.
I am no good with Excel despite completing basic courses in it. I have an aversion to anything beyond basic algebra.

I don't think we should have to be required to use a spreadsheet in a game otherwise, for me, it ceases to be a game and becomes work.

If you can point me to a good, public spreadsheet where I can plug in numbers then maybe I will give it a try.
Joshua Vaughn Lampen
Archer Investments Initiative
#9 - 2011-09-20 21:23:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Joshua Vaughn Lampen
Wa'roun wrote:
I want to like PI but the advanced math / analytical thinking keeps me from doing much with it.
I am no good with Excel despite completing basic courses in it. I have an aversion to anything beyond basic algebra.

I don't think we should have to be required to use a spreadsheet in a game otherwise, for me, it ceases to be a game and becomes work.

If you can point me to a good, public spreadsheet where I can plug in numbers then maybe I will give it a try.


Honestly setting one up doesn't require much mathematical or excel formula knowledge. If you've taken basic courses on it you'll know what to do. PI is amazing passive income and its like everything else in EVE. If you want to excel you need to understand how it's mechanics work. Alternatively if you'd like to purchase my PI spreadsheet I'd more than happily sell it to you. 500 mil and it's yours. PM in game or reply here if you want to work something out or want some specifics on the profitability of PI if you had my sheet. Bear

P.S. The public spreadsheets are completely unreliable. I tried using 2-3 that I came across and it just doesn't work as well as your own version that can be reliably updated.
Amar Azaph
Doomheim
#10 - 2011-09-20 21:39:13 UTC
Forgot to ask, If i move my T2 products to final assembly, does it matter what type of planet it is?
Or does it have to be a certain type? Camera drones for example, can you set up the advanced facility on nay planet then drop the T2 products in for final assembly?

I'm looking at condensates and camera drones, getting kind of in to this whole PI thing, who knows ? I might become the Donald Trump of this stuff Lol

For my part I know nothing with any certainty, but the sight of the stars makes me dream.
Joshua Vaughn Lampen
Archer Investments Initiative
#11 - 2011-09-20 21:49:26 UTC
Amar Azaph wrote:
Forgot to ask, If i move my T2 products to final assembly, does it matter what type of planet it is?
Or does it have to be a certain type? Camera drones for example, can you set up the advanced facility on nay planet then drop the T2 products in for final assembly?

I'm looking at condensates and camera drones, getting kind of in to this whole PI thing, who knows ? I might become the Donald Trump of this stuff Lol


Basic Industry and Advanced Industry Facilities can be constructed on any type of planet so if you're making P3 its best to just drop it on a planet that's close to the others.

And just so you know. P4's can only be produced on Barren and Temperate planets with High-Tech Production Facilities.
Dalloway Jones
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2011-09-21 07:05:32 UTC
Your best bet if you are going to make any type of factory planet to make higher level products is to go with a barren planet because they are generally the smallest (temperate are OK too). Both barren and temperate also have the bonus of being able to build high tech production facilities if you decide you want to build T4 goods.

Gas planets are obnoxiously big and it costs a prohibitive amount of grid to route anything. The only thing I would build on gas planets is Oxidizing Compounds because Reactive Gas is only available on gas planets. For everything else available on gas planets you would probably be better off getting it from another planet type.
Amar Azaph
Doomheim
#13 - 2011-09-21 15:05:16 UTC
I have everything set up now. I have a barren command center in the station. I'll bring it out and set it up when the products are ready. I'll be doing this- move 2x t2 products to a barren planet- set up the barren command center- set up an advanced facility- set up barren launch pad- import t2 products- route both from launchpad to facility -storage-launchpad.
(Hopefully works P )

For my part I know nothing with any certainty, but the sight of the stars makes me dream.
Anishoara
Federal Institute Service
#14 - 2011-09-21 19:21:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Anishoara
I haven't read the whole thread but, if you are using a planet to only produce without extracting anything, try to choose a small radius planet, if possible the smallest (avoid Gas planet for example wich are generaly enormous).

Links and routes are taking lot of ressources from your command center. Using small planet will reduce the links and routes distance and will save your PG and CPU.