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Incursions VS Lvl 5 missions

Author
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#21 - 2012-02-17 23:54:49 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
if a lot of players get their way, then there won't be lvl 5's or incursions in high sec.

No one has ever seriously suggested that, that I've seen, other than you. Incursions just need tweaking, removing them is stupid.

L'Acuto wrote:
An alternative to modifying the spawn rate is to make the Sansha Incursion sites exploration sites so that they have to be scanned down - that will slow down the "professionals". The sites can be at those long ranges and make deep space scan probes useful.

I like that idea, although not about them being at large distances from celestials. Deep safes and all.

Joe Risalo wrote:
yes, lvl 5's can be solo'ed. However, they require pretty pimped out ships in order to do so, and it only works for specific ships. Doubt you could do it in a pimped out raven.
Incursions are mostly limited to well skilled, well paid, well fitted, well knowledged players. Lots of other high sec players get left out.

Well, a pimped raven would get laughed at in incursions too. This still seems to boil down to you not having the ships or skills to get into incursions, so you want level 5s moved to high sec.

Joe Risalo wrote:
I see tons of ship fittings being posted on incursion chats that are pure t2. In most cases it's a matter of how well suited the pilot, his skills, and if his fit is built as a fleet ship and not a solo ship. So having a pimped out fit faction battleship isn't gonna help you if you're not well skilled with it or built for a fleet, and while lvl 5's can be done in those same types of fits, there are also a lot more players out there that would get much more fleet pve playtime in with lvl 5 missions. While i'm fully capable of building a damn good fit to be able to solo lvl 5's, I'd much prefer to build a good fleet with my corp and go run them together, where as I don't even know if I could get into an incursion.

Wait, "Incursions are mostly limited to well skilled, well paid, well fitted, well knowledged players". You're following that statement with "I see tons of ship fittings being posted on incursion chats that are pure t2"? Seriously?

And your argument for level 5s is now that you don't need to have a fleet fit? I thought your idea was that these wouldn't be done solo?

You also claim you could build a ship that could solo lvl5s, but your unsure if you could even get into an incursion? And you're claiming that soloing lvl5s wouldn't be normal, that it would be done by fleets in smaller corps? Seriously?!

Joe Risalo wrote:
There are many players in Eve that are purely high sec players. When it comes to complexes and mining, we know that the good stuff is in null, but we're satisfied with what we have. However, not many high sec mission grinders would agree that lvl 4's are a high enough content level to satify us completely. So having that option to fly lvl 5's would be nice expecially if you consider that most of us can't get into an incursion. Now, if we were to remove incursions from high sec like a large portion of the population wants, then putting lvl 5's in high sec would soften the blow.
Oh, and you're much more likely to make "mad isk" fleeting for incursions than you are soloing lvl 5's. The payout may be pretty damn good, but it's still not as good.

Ok, I'm going to spell this out: very few players want incursions moved out of high sec. Even if some of us did, CCP wouldn't do it.

Basically, you can't/don't want to run incursions, so you want level 5s. Join a good low sec corp then, or take over a low sec system. Monkey circus are pretty good, they control a low sec system with a lvl5 agent and farm them all the time.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

Amaroq Dricaldari
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2012-02-20 03:17:35 UTC
Serge Bastana wrote:
Leave level 5s where they are and just reduce the rewards for incursions.
That would also work.

But I still like the idea of returning Level V missions to High-Sec (but only in 0.6 and 0.5, and the agents for them should be rare, and only in each faction's primary corporation). Low-Sec and Null Sec Level V missions won't be effected (hopefully).

This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

Maenth
The Thirteen Provinces
#23 - 2012-02-23 05:19:58 UTC
I want to do incursions in the relative safety of hisec.... but, Incursions shouldn't be happening in hisec, because CONCORD/empire navies should be able to stomp them, or at least fight them off.... also it makes more sense for Sansha; why attack random strong systems when there are plenty of weak systems ripe for the taking?

If L5 missions have too much reward for risk... why not just reduce that reward a bit and let hisec folks enjoy their missions?

Drones. Drones are a means to an end. An end to the ruthless Caldari 'progress' machines. An end to the barbaric 'redemption' proposed by the Amarr. What they see as chaos shall be my perfect order, merely beyond their comprehension.

Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#24 - 2012-02-23 06:25:09 UTC
Maenth wrote:
I want to do incursions in the relative safety of hisec.... but, Incursions shouldn't be happening in hisec, because CONCORD/empire navies should be able to stomp them, or at least fight them off.... also it makes more sense for Sansha; why attack random strong systems when there are plenty of weak systems ripe for the taking?

If L5 missions have too much reward for risk... why not just reduce that reward a bit and let hisec folks enjoy their missions?


That's my thought.. Same missions, less payout and less bounty..Nor rediculously less though...They still gotta be worth flying...
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#25 - 2012-02-23 06:50:41 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
Maenth wrote:
I want to do incursions in the relative safety of hisec.... but, Incursions shouldn't be happening in hisec, because CONCORD/empire navies should be able to stomp them, or at least fight them off.... also it makes more sense for Sansha; why attack random strong systems when there are plenty of weak systems ripe for the taking?

If L5 missions have too much reward for risk... why not just reduce that reward a bit and let hisec folks enjoy their missions?


That's my thought.. Same missions, less payout and less bounty..Nor rediculously less though...They still gotta be worth flying...

I think the issue with that is that nerfing the payouts and LP to the point where it won't be abused by solo players and bots renders them completely pointless for the small corp fleets you want to encourage.

I also can't stress enough that so called "end game" material doesn't really belong in high sec, if you want to make large amounts of ISK it should be done in low or null. Low sec and null are risk free enough as it is, keep pimping high sec and this game is just going to become a 3d farmville client.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-02-23 16:35:56 UTC
What I find to be the issue with end game style content only being available in low and null sec is that it is exploited in ways it can't be exploited in high sec. For instance, in low sec the only people that can get at the missions are the people controlling the system and their friends. Most of these alliances are quite powerful, so attempting to take them out of the systems would be quite difficult only to have the system ripped out from under you by another alliance taking advantage of your weakened state. In having lvl5s only in low, you're basically turning it into a precious resource instead of treating it for what it is. Pve game content that everyone should be able to enjoy
Maenth
The Thirteen Provinces
#27 - 2012-02-24 02:42:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Maenth
"Low sec and null are risk free enough as it is"

I wish I could agree with that, but ... maybe I just have bad luck, but every time I've gone to a lowsec system for more then just passing-through, there's been pirates waiting to pounce on me and sometimes even shot me as I approached the station.... which also brings up the question of, why are they allowed in the station WHILE IT'S SHOOTING AT THEM?! ... but that's another topic

Anyway, that's why I'd like L5 missions in hisec space. I don't think they should be solo-able at all, but I don't like that I'll have to worry about player pirates/pirate corps while we're already having to worry about the mission.... me and my friends total 5-7 ships when we get together and we feel almost-confident in our ability to do a L5 mission... but I don't know what we'll do if we're also attacked by more than a couple of pirate ships while we're out there.

Drones. Drones are a means to an end. An end to the ruthless Caldari 'progress' machines. An end to the barbaric 'redemption' proposed by the Amarr. What they see as chaos shall be my perfect order, merely beyond their comprehension.

King Rothgar
Deadly Solutions
#28 - 2012-02-24 03:21:05 UTC
7/10, lot of bites.

[u]Fireworks and snowballs are great, but what I really want is a corpse launcher.[/u]

Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#29 - 2012-02-24 04:17:40 UTC
Maenth wrote:
"Low sec and null are risk free enough as it is"

I wish I could agree with that, but ... maybe I just have bad luck, but every time I've gone to a lowsec system for more then just passing-through, there's been pirates waiting to pounce on me and sometimes even shot me as I approached the station.... which also brings up the question of, why are they allowed in the station WHILE IT'S SHOOTING AT THEM?! ... but that's another topic

Anyway, that's why I'd like L5 missions in hisec space. I don't think they should be solo-able at all, but I don't like that I'll have to worry about player pirates/pirate corps while we're already having to worry about the mission.... me and my friends total 5-7 ships when we get together and we feel almost-confident in our ability to do a L5 mission... but I don't know what we'll do if we're also attacked by more than a couple of pirate ships while we're out there.


Apparently it's pretty easy to tank station and gate guns, that's why gate camps always just stay their.

AS far as the rest, I agree with you.

king rothgar wrote:



7/10, lot of bites.


huh?
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#30 - 2012-02-24 07:50:48 UTC
Maenth wrote:
"Low sec and null are risk free enough as it is"

I wish I could agree with that, but ... maybe I just have bad luck, but every time I've gone to a lowsec system for more then just passing-through, there's been pirates waiting to pounce on me and sometimes even shot me as I approached the station.... which also brings up the question of, why are they allowed in the station WHILE IT'S SHOOTING AT THEM?! ... but that's another topic

Anyway, that's why I'd like L5 missions in hisec space. I don't think they should be solo-able at all, but I don't like that I'll have to worry about player pirates/pirate corps while we're already having to worry about the mission.... me and my friends total 5-7 ships when we get together and we feel almost-confident in our ability to do a L5 mission... but I don't know what we'll do if we're also attacked by more than a couple of pirate ships while we're out there.

I think the main problem is that you aren't changing your behavior for low sec, general rules are to move around in a covert ops ship, always scout bigger ships in, don't run missions etc. in busy systems and if you do, look out for combat scanners.

Stations, you're going to need an insta-warp if you're trying to get out of heavily camped stations, but really it's better to just not dock at them. Even if you dock there once you'll get out eventually, just remember not to go back.

Anyway, between covert ops T3s, T2 haulers, jump freighters and the rest it's pretty easy to operate out of low sec. You just need to think about it a bit more, you and your 5-7 friends shouldn't be worrying about getting attacked by pirates, you should just be avoiding them. Find a quiet system, get black frog to jump your large ships in or scout them in if it's not far, then get there yourselves in covert ops ships/shuttles and hey presto, you're done.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

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