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[Proposal] Re-adjust highsec income (Missions, incursions etc)

First post
Author
Laechyd Eldgorn
Avanto
Hole Control
#21 - 2012-02-17 23:19:16 UTC
i have just one question

how does the one make any freaking money if not wh's or incursions

incursion lp has apparently inflated also normal level 4 lp stores to nearly bull value, doing level 4's in low or null seems pretty pointless, go figure. it seems botting level 4's in hi sec/null sec is still profitable though

or titan ratting.

wait there might be hidden bonus questions
Smiling Menace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2012-02-18 14:30:57 UTC
This will never work. As has been explained on a million other thread about this, you will NEVER get the risk adverse players in hi sec to play in low/null. I have no idea why you even want to force them to.

Some people are happy to mine all day. Some like building ships. Others like to dabble in the markets. A big chunk in hi sec like to run missions. More power to them. Whatever it takes for them to log in and enjoy EVE their way.

Missions are boring as sin once you've run them for the millionth time and eventually people will get bored and will want to try new things. There's no need to nerf it, just stop adding content to it so it becomes boring so quickly that anything else in low/null will seem really entertaining in comparison.

This way you don't annoy a large portion of the players (hi sec people outnumber low/null by a huge margin, don't forget this) that want to continue running missions.

I would also take issue with the people in this thread stating there's risk in low/null for ratting and plexing.

Once you are in a system, there's virtually no way in hell you can die to anything unless you are stupid and don't watch intel channels or local. I personally have sat for a day running plexes in Branch with not another soul in the system in all the time I was there. Where's the risk there? Time to nerf null judging by the OP's logic.

The only real risk is travelling through the gates but Jump Bridges reduce a lot of that. As it stands I think hi sec is actually more dangerous as there's an awful lot of neutrals around that may or may not gank/pod you for lulz. Mission runners have risks as well from griefers and ninjas.

Hi sec is safer but not totally safe as you will see if you bother to check stats on the map for kills in the last hour and 24 hours. Most of the big red blobs are in hi sec!!

TL;DR don't encourage CCP to nerf anything else. Just don't add anymore content for missions in hi sec.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#23 - 2012-02-18 16:01:27 UTC
Smiling Menace wrote:
This will never work. As has been explained on a million other thread about this, you will NEVER get the risk adverse players in hi sec to play in low/null. I have no idea why you even want to force them to.


Yet it's by far more dangerous to undock in high sec than in null sec, believe me I don't play this game seriously for a long time (1.5 year at better and few try before) but I've spent more time playing missions in high sec than any activity in null sec and you can believe when I tell you null sec is 0 risk if you learn the simple basics that are BM's and watch local.

BM's and watch local+ standings, something it's impossible in high sec, you don't even know if it's a guy in your own corp that is going to gank you (NPC corps), you never know if the smalest ship in the belt next to you is there to try to can flip you or just the warp in for the gank gang, and what about jita and all the other big trade hubs?
Those are no mans land and where you can figure easily how concord reaction/coding is a joke.

There are far hundreds more faction/officer fitted BS/Tengus rating safely in null sec than you will ever see in the greatest mission hubs in high sec all together. Then add all the carrier/super carrier/titan faction/officer fit rating dudes and cry me a river about high sec income that needs to be nerfed.

What needs to be nerfed in high sec is how easy it is for some risk averse pubbies to gank for max profit with 0 effort. And don't start talking about SS because the one trying to will look like another stupid pawn incapable to understand that in a single couple of hours if you kill 1bs rat per system and move on in null/low your SS raises at ridiculous speeds.
Gank is a valid tactic but should not be the stupid mongoloid gameplay that is today and SS farming should be a real pain for months on a daily farming basis to get back to normal.

What needs to be nerfed is how easy it is to high sec risk averse pubbies that call them selves "pirates" to keep their free risk activity whilist destroying the game for a lot of players and also kicking CCP right in the balls because those customers gone will hardly return.
Kick them from high sec, make them get instantly ganked by concord and local police if they ever undock with something else than their pod, make those risk averse pubbies really play the game and lets see then how much high sec income needs to be nerfed.
I can't wait to see those "elite pvp" pubbies come to null and have a taste of my auto canons Lol
But you know what? -they will probably leave the game, because they are risk averse and everything they like is to fap in front of their Kb full of mission faction fited BS ganked freighters at the undocks and awesome pvp stuff alike with the obvious neutral alts for jams and reps. Let them leave, hope they get their ass kicked by the door closing.

Quote:
Missions are boring as sin once you've run them for the millionth time and eventually people will get bored and will want to try new things. There's no need to nerf it, just stop adding content to it so it becomes boring so quickly that anything else in low/null will seem really entertaining in comparison.


Missions are boring in your personal opinion, by the way they're so boring as you say that the richest players in eve did a lot of those gazillions isk they swim in all day long by selling Omega implants they got with LP's, and guess what? -those are null sec pirate missions, awesome, it's really boring 1B the implant actually in Jita heh?

It's the oposite that must be done, lvl5 in null/low no one does them, bring them to high sec, crush the lp's market, people will eventually get bored and start using a lot more faction ships/fit for pvp, isn't that nice?
Actually who wins something with LP's?
Incursion runners (that are the sames all the time in high sec and the sames in null sec), they get gazillions of LP's they transform later in whatever empire lp's and so on, plus see their wallet blink like you could only dream of.
The issue is that incursions are not for the common player, you need to have a lot of spare time and play with the same dudes a lot, try to join an high sec incursion just like that and see what happens, if you're not all 5's with the pubbie vindicator's fit he wishes and same for whatever ship you can always sit ther and wait, it's wow on steroids but worst.

Quote:
Time to nerf null judging by the OP's logic.


Exactly but not no matter how. Just nerf tech moon and all moon minerals to the ground and bring those to all players instead of some in the alliance. Alliance and Corporations wealth should come from the number of rich players in and willing to put their isk on the table to control/keep something, not from afk/passive/whatever stuff any idiot with an Iteron quafe plus can suck up just by installing a pos in 10minutes and threat everyone because he can drop hundred titans/sc's

Some are already working on POCOS taxes and increasing the taxes to their own alliance mates at 15% (saw this lately in goon space, seems their alliance mates are getting 15% butt hugs, and some other regions in other alliances at 5%)
CCP nerf this, if it's not NPC POCOS then tax should not be possible to raise above 10% by alliances, and I'm quite sure that even at 10% tax rate the monthly income per POCO starts at least at 1billion profit.

What needs to be nerfed is how easy it is for some megacorp or alliance to sit there and get gazillions of isk out of no where with rents, taxes, PI taxes, bounty tax, moon goo and a lot of more funky stuff.

Actually high sec and null sec mechanics are so flawded by "players driven content", but mostly ability to exploit basic rules, that CCP will not have the choice at some point but to make high sec totaly safe and increase significantly wars in null sec.
Dipluz
Notorious Legion
SCRUBS.
#24 - 2012-02-18 16:09:22 UTC
The reason why highsec can be dangerous is that you do missions all at the same place, its a reason why CCP removed the quality level, is beacuse a lot of missioners in highsec is stacked in 1 system, highsec isnt risk free. you will still get concord unless your stupid and play the bait of the griefers. When I did missions in highsec I was smart to not take their bait, even though this is some time ago.

If more people moved to nullsec it wouldnt be so risk free. That is the reason I want more people to come to 0.0, that is why I made this proposal. And Jump-bridges is not as safe as it used to be, just run around and camp the stargets between the JB systems, which me and my corp has done for a year in drone russian space. and this has fruited around 1700 kills in about 9months time.

http://notorious.killmail.org/?a=cc_detail&ctr_id=12060



Rico Minali
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2012-02-18 16:54:13 UTC
Agreed in principle, basically the flow should go like this:

Lowest income - highest safety - Hisec
Lowsec is VERY dangerous, income should be substantially higher than hisec in every aspect
Nullsec is VERY dangerous but can be made safer by utilising huge amounts of isk and man hours to do so so should have the highest income
Wormhole space should be roughly in line with Nullsec in income as the dangers and so on are similar in elevel but different in nature.

You should never be able to make the most isk in the safest environment, which currently you can. And dont be a **** and tell me how hisec is dangerous, its only dangerous if you are stupid.

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.

TrollFace TrololMcFluf
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2012-02-18 19:21:50 UTC
you think nullsec is VERY dangerous lol pathetic highsec carebears dont have a clue
Vaurion Infara
Doomheim
#27 - 2012-02-18 20:05:53 UTC
Here's the essential problem I see, and it's easily observable. Prices on everything has been going through the roof, and it's because of isk inflation. As it stands, with incursions, FW missions, plexing, etc. there is too much isk being poured onto the market with no actual products being added, for the most part. Prices go up, and mining becomes less attractive because people see how much money you can make on incursions and the like. Mining just doesn't compete anymore as a way to make isk, so less items are being built, making prices go up again.

this is it

Lithely Jaine
Perkone
Caldari State
#28 - 2012-02-19 06:36:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Lithely Jaine
Vaurion Infara wrote:
Here's the essential problem I see, and it's easily observable. Prices on everything has been going through the roof, and it's because of isk inflation. As it stands, with incursions, FW missions, plexing, etc. there is too much isk being poured onto the market with no actual products being added, for the most part. Prices go up, and mining becomes less attractive because people see how much money you can make on incursions and the like. Mining just doesn't compete anymore as a way to make isk, so less items are being built, making prices go up again.


No.
You forgot the key part of Where is most of the Minerals are coming from.

Hint. it's not High sec :P
CCP Spitfire
C C P
C C P Alliance
#29 - 2012-02-19 08:21:40 UTC
Offtopic posts removed.

CCP Spitfire | Marketing & Sales Team @ccp_spitfire

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#30 - 2012-02-19 11:13:09 UTC
Considering your "7 Year Old Veteran" posts are not very insightful or indeed reminiscent of anything like your supposed seven year experience, I'm just going to go ahead and file your proposal in the bin, thanks.

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log

Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
#31 - 2012-02-19 18:00:12 UTC
They should modify all payouts regardless of location with output from an algorithm containing "residents", "visitors" and "deaths" (read: base it on actual risk rather than theoretical risk).

But of course, that would mean lowsec gets the best income as it has the most risk with null a distant second so doubtful that such a thing makes it by the null censors Smile
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#32 - 2012-02-19 19:38:06 UTC
I'd like to propose a different way of looking at hi-sec incomes: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=26049

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
#33 - 2012-02-19 21:23:08 UTC
Dipluz wrote:
same old stuff!


I fail to understand why so many miss the point.

In the balance between risk and reward perhaps it is not the reward that needs balancing but the risk. Things stay in high sec because so many players are risk averse. CCP has tried many times (at the whims of folks like the OP) to adjust this but far too often they miss the mark.

You could move all level 4 missions, ice, datacore production and the like to low sec or 0.0 and it would have a far less profound affect than adjusting risk.

Case in point?

T3 interdiction nullification and sensor amplification modules. The rewards did not change yet far more people were (are) willing to risk sneaking into lower security since there was the perceived chance they might survive more than a few seconds.

Just a few ideas. Make NPC pirates more likely to attack new people that enter a complex or deadspace. Allow modules that can burst confuse probes allowing for a speedy get away. Create tanky industrials and exhumers that can actually defend themselves or at least survive the most trivial attacks.

Changing rewards will not affect behavior (other than cancelled subscriptions). Instead, adjust mechanics that make it more possible to evade and survive in lawless space in a PVE ship. No matter how much you adjust rewards a large number of people will find it more profitable to simply do more volume of the activity that is safer than less volume of an activity they perceive guarantees loss.



My 2 isks

Be careful what you think, for your thoughts become your words. Be careful what you say, for your words become your actions. Be careful what you do, for your actions become your character. And character is everything. - author unknown

Tekashi Kovacs
Golfclap Inc
#34 - 2012-02-19 22:36:50 UTC
Decreasing an hi-sec rewards will NEVER EVER bring more people to low-sec/0.0. Get over it and stop being jealous OP.
Dipluz
Notorious Legion
SCRUBS.
#35 - 2012-02-19 22:40:09 UTC
Tekashi Kovacs wrote:
Decreasing an hi-sec rewards will NEVER EVER bring more people to low-sec/0.0. Get over it and stop being jealous OP.


jealous ? ehm that I will never be of highsec of anything in life.
Mechael
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2012-02-20 08:25:14 UTC
Just get level 4's out of highsec altogether. What on earth are all of the pirate battleships that are hostile to all of the factions AND concord doing in a 1.0 security system, anyway?

+1 to the OP, because it's better than leaving this problem alone.

Whether or not you win the game matters not.  It's if you bought it.

Mechael
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2012-02-20 08:27:36 UTC
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
They should modify all payouts regardless of location with output from an algorithm containing "residents", "visitors" and "deaths" (read: base it on actual risk rather than theoretical risk).

But of course, that would mean lowsec gets the best income as it has the most risk with null a distant second so doubtful that such a thing makes it by the null censors Smile


This would be great, and is an idea that can be expanded on.

Whether or not you win the game matters not.  It's if you bought it.

Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#38 - 2012-02-22 12:26:07 UTC
Andski wrote:
Tanya Powers wrote:
Dipluz wrote:
boring rabble by null sec random pawn


I'll agree with you the day where null sec will be free o absolutely all the null sec rating bots (hundreds and even thousands of those but seems ccp can't do a crap about it)

Because a single rating bot in null sec in his drake is completely intouchable, and does for about 700M to over 1B a day. Where's your risk when you know CCP can't do a **** about it and that your perfect bot docks/kiss the poss if some neutral appears?
C'mon intelligent guy I'm sure you have an answer al made for this.

Now there are hundreds of those in Tengus and carriers, what is your proposal about this?

So your ols rabble about high sec income not only is flawded but it's once again to previlege those already crawling on billions of isk, the same ones buying characters on toons bazaar very often, most of those have lots of alts since it's easy to pay their sub right?

Idiot ideas are idiot.


it's as if you've totally glossed over l4 bots, because of course nobody bots in highsec



Who cares of your rabble? - besides bot users or individuals who never step on high sec because they don't need, no one on his right mind will not change this fact simple fact that yes there are probably a lot of bots in high sec but there's not where they are for the most and where they are the most profitable.

Hello drones regions? -ho boy with mineral prices right now those dudes are doing gazillions of isk per month, they don't need tech crap

Rats (BS) with bounty starting at 650K up to 1.2M in belts, sanctums, heavens, forsakens, faction spawns etc you can kill those indefinitely as long as you have ammo in your cargo and never stop to loot because will make you loose isk/h.
All you need is a safe spot BM or POS whenever nutral/red shown up, who can assure it's a bot or not?

Now tell us all about high sec bots and how you, so smart, identify those to state that high sec is all about bots and more than in null sec. What about start cleaning your own homelands and alliance/corps before rabble about high sec?
Every one in null knows your null sec alliances politics, you're not cops and it's not your job to help CCP clean bots, you even threat to purge those individuals or corps who might have reported bots. Bravo big guy.

I hunt in every alliance systems enough to safely say the only way to make far more isk in high sec than rating in null is to do incursions but even then, compare what it can be, null sec incursions are hundred times more profitable and those are done almost 24h/7 just like in high sec (I know a few doing it to pay themselves the titan or the SC and the guy with enough spare time in his day can double/triple high sec billions incursions income easily.

Propaganda, myths, is all you can do about high sec because you're either the greatest idiot on earth and can't see what happens in high sec or you're just another of those who comes back playing after a few years and think he's back in stone age... wake up dude.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#39 - 2012-02-23 03:24:47 UTC
Battle On wrote:
i think the only thing they need to adjust is the mining sector.
these days mining isnt that safe at it was. there are too many gankers these days and you can easily pop a hulk with boosts and an orca supporting it with just 2 or maybe 3 low sp destroyers. so the risk has gone up but the reward hasnt. therefor i think there needs to be something new for miners. also you can only mine for 6mill/hour with a decent hulk. this is just way too low.
Incursions and missions shouldnt get any asjustments simply because they are already good. at the moment you can make around 40-60mil/hour doing lvl 4 missions + salvaging them. this is easily doable without any high risks.
incursion require communication skills, a group of people and still has a high risk of losing your ship. also you need to have a good ship + good skills to run them good enough to be able to contest other fleets. therefor the reward is higher and is at a steady 70-120mill
Exploration in highsec still has a high reward but requires the skills to scan sites.

so really if you compare it all, the only thing that needs to be adjust is the mining sector. the rest is balanced


You completely missed the point the OP was making. I don't really care so much about the highsec miners. To me, mining in highsec completely defeats the purpose of mining in the first place.

As for missions... I've been running them on & off for the past year-ish taking a break from 0.0 & such... Even I agree that the ammount of isk I'm earning in highsec with little risk is too high. I won't even start on Incursions...

OP, I agree with you completely.

+1

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Last Lefts
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2012-02-23 14:34:04 UTC
Nullsec is boring.

Quit complaining about overbuffed highsec payouts and make nullsec worth playing in.

Then look at whether highsec payouts are too high.
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