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More Destroyers
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Mechael
Tribal Liberation Distribution and Retail
#21 - 2012-02-16 23:08:23 UTC
If you can come up with another valid anti-frig role that isn't already filled by another ship, sure. Good luck with that.

Whether or not you win the game matters not.  It's if you bought it.
L'Petit Object
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-02-16 23:34:28 UTC
Because it is impossible to catch cloakies: A destroyer that gives the ability to uncloak ships or see cloaked ships. Who hunts the hunters? Anit cov-ops. Anti-Scanning ship.
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2012-02-17 00:14:59 UTC
Errr aint it ment to be that battleships eat battlecruisers that eat cruisers that eat destroyers that eat frigates ?

Why are people asking quite wierd stuff like "destroyers that can take on cruisers" ... whats the darn point of cruisers then ?
Mechael
Tribal Liberation Distribution and Retail
#24 - 2012-02-17 05:06:48 UTC
Cedo Nulli wrote:
Errr aint it ment to be that battleships eat battlecruisers that eat cruisers that eat destroyers that eat frigates ?

Why are people asking quite wierd stuff like "destroyers that can take on cruisers" ... whats the darn point of cruisers then ?


This. A million times this.

Whether or not you win the game matters not.  It's if you bought it.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#25 - 2012-02-17 05:30:06 UTC
The Thrasher is the quintessential Destroyer. The magic sauce that makes it great is it's damage bonus. Where the Corm has 7 turret slots and the Coercer and Cat have 8 - the Thrasher essentially has 8.75. It can put out DPS that is disproportionate to the other races. Now don't get me wrong - the other destroyers are alot of fun and can fulfill their roles as frigate killers - just not as perfectly as the Thrasher.

An MSE AC Thrasher can put out 430 DPS with about 7.5k EHP. That is very competitive with the Wolf. An Arty Thrasher outshines an Arty Jaguar in terms of damage output by almost 100%. If you look at the other destroyers vs. their AF cousins none are as competitive. The cormorant is outshown in every way imaginable by the Harpy. The Catalyst has 25% more firepower then the Enyo and barely half of it's EHP.

How to level the field? Trade a turret slot for a utility slot on the Catalyst and Coercer. Trade one of the bonuses on the other three destroyers for a damage bonus.

Catalyst - tracking and damage
Coercer - Cap and damage
Corm - Optimal and damage

All would retain the role bonus. Tweaking is all the destroyer class needs.
Ray Hawkins
Guardians of the EVE Navy
#26 - 2012-02-18 04:00:08 UTC
I AM relatively new, but why not take destroyers in the direction we all already use them for?

Give them % bonus' in the hacking/salvage/mining and analyzing fields....keep em race specific, but they could be more of a freelancers ship.

It'd give newbies something else to work towards (and make money with) while they get used to their races ship specific ups and downs.

I didn't come up with this alone, their was a whole solar system discussing it earlier. I just REALLY like the idea. We're not all into combat, and I have yet to see a +5% to hacking on anything, ship-wise.
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#27 - 2012-02-18 05:26:43 UTC
Find a niche role that isn't already filled and we'll talk.

A hunter/killer for cloakies is one of the better ideas that's been knocked around. No idea how it would work though.

Overhaul Dscan!
RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2012-02-18 18:03:14 UTC
Ray Hawkins wrote:
I AM relatively new, but why not take destroyers in the direction we all already use them for?

Give them % bonus' in the hacking/salvage/mining and analyzing fields....keep em race specific, but they could be more of a freelancers ship.

It'd give newbies something else to work towards (and make money with) while they get used to their races ship specific ups and downs.

I didn't come up with this alone, their was a whole solar system discussing it earlier. I just REALLY like the idea. We're not all into combat, and I have yet to see a +5% to hacking on anything, ship-wise.



I like this idea.

Make them some middle ground utility ships types. Like Osprey or Scythe for those not wanting to get out of the destroyer hull just yet.

Lets not get hung up on our modern convention of what a destroyer is. Its better to think of it just as a hull size type.

Some Utility and Mining versions would be cool. Better versions of the Frigate mining ships would be nice. A hull with a Hacking bonus and role bonus like that sound like fun.

Not all ships need to be PvP Beasts.

Its just about adding so variety to the hull type. We have crazy amounts of frig, cruiser, BC and BS hulls.

**Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence" **
Darthewok
Perkone
Caldari State
#29 - 2012-02-18 18:19:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Darthewok
Give them mining bonus and ability to cloak only while mining. The Covert Ops miner role is unfilled in EVE.
A black ops BS can covert ops cyno in a vicious team of cloaked destroyers to mine out a Veldspar asteroid belt in 15 hours.

CAVEAT RICHARDUS VOLVERE - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0
Skorpynekomimi
#30 - 2012-02-18 20:12:08 UTC
L'Petit Object wrote:
Because it is impossible to catch cloakies: A destroyer that gives the ability to uncloak ships or see cloaked ships. Who hunts the hunters? Anit cov-ops. Anti-Scanning ship.


I'd like to see this too. AFK cloaking is a known issue. Cloaking is, right now, extremely hard to counter.

So, why not make a use for destroyers as finding them? High alpha to take the buggers out, plenty of high slots for guns and cloaks and probe launchers, and space for tackle AND tank. They could be like modern-day attack subs.

Economic PVP
Herbatrix
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2012-02-18 20:57:56 UTC
So what would be the best way to handle anti-cloak? I was thinking some sort of hi-slot that decloaks stuff in a 2.5km (arbitrary value) radius around the destroyer. It could use up a decent amount of cap (equivalent to an MWD or something) so having to cap balance it would be part of the fit.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#32 - 2012-02-18 21:06:31 UTC
Herbatrix wrote:
So what would be the best way to handle anti-cloak? I was thinking some sort of hi-slot that decloaks stuff in a 2.5km (arbitrary value) radius around the destroyer. It could use up a decent amount of cap (equivalent to an MWD or something) so having to cap balance it would be part of the fit.


A cloaked ship within 2500m of anything decloaks.
Herbatrix
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2012-02-18 21:39:07 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:

A cloaked ship within 2500m of anything decloaks.


As you can tell I only recently started playing EVE again Roll

But as I said, arbitrary value, it's the mechanism that I was talking about. Either that, or ability to drop 'decloak' spheres, though that might be a bit unbalanced.
Ares Renton
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#34 - 2012-02-19 00:05:50 UTC
mxzf wrote:
Herbatrix wrote:
Why not?


Because there is no need for them in the game. Because the game is already balanced without them. Because it's more development work with no real purpose.


"Why not?" Isn't a reason, it's a complete lack of reason. It can also be written "I don't have any reason at all, but I still want what I want and that's all I care about" without the meaning changing at all.


The more toys the better. It`s supposed to be a sandbox game, but why do I have just 1 choice of shovel and bucket!
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#35 - 2012-02-19 03:30:42 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
The Thrasher is the quintessential Destroyer. The magic sauce that makes it great is it's damage bonus. Where the Corm has 7 turret slots and the Coercer and Cat have 8 - the Thrasher essentially has 8.75. It can put out DPS that is disproportionate to the other races. Now don't get me wrong - the other destroyers are alot of fun and can fulfill their roles as frigate killers - just not as perfectly as the Thrasher.


The base version being already the very best, the T2 version is just the dictor of choice. Flycatcher is not bad but nothing in T2 versions destroyers can equalize Sabre performances.

Trasher has far too much dps with autos, far too much alpha
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#36 - 2012-02-19 06:21:19 UTC
I've said it before and I'll say it again.

We need navy destroyers.

Give them all just a little buff.

Examples:
Extra speed for -min
Extra drones for - gallente
Resist bonus- caldari
Laser buff- amarr

Something along those lines.

Just make the buffs tiny and balanced.

Won't replace cruisers because faction destroyer will probly cost more.

Easy to program since it uses existing hulls.
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#37 - 2012-02-20 07:41:29 UTC
RougeOperator wrote:
Ray Hawkins wrote:
I AM relatively new, but why not take destroyers in the direction we all already use them for?

Give them % bonus' in the hacking/salvage/mining and analyzing fields....keep em race specific, but they could be more of a freelancers ship.

It'd give newbies something else to work towards (and make money with) while they get used to their races ship specific ups and downs.

I didn't come up with this alone, their was a whole solar system discussing it earlier. I just REALLY like the idea. We're not all into combat, and I have yet to see a +5% to hacking on anything, ship-wise.



I like this idea.

Make them some middle ground utility ships types. Like Osprey or Scythe for those not wanting to get out of the destroyer hull just yet.

Lets not get hung up on our modern convention of what a destroyer is. Its better to think of it just as a hull size type.

Some Utility and Mining versions would be cool. Better versions of the Frigate mining ships would be nice. A hull with a Hacking bonus and role bonus like that sound like fun.

Not all ships need to be PvP Beasts.

Its just about adding so variety to the hull type. We have crazy amounts of frig, cruiser, BC and BS hulls.



Although non combat deserves some attention, it should not be with destroyers. It should be some thing for industrial and ORE, instead of a destroyer feat.
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2012-02-20 10:38:34 UTC
I would simply give players a choice of weapon type for their destroyers, or gank vs tank.

For T1's
Gall use blasters and drones, the current destroyer uses blasters, give us a drone version (25m3 bandwidth, 5% to drone damage per level?)

Caldari use rails and Missiles, the current one uses rails, give us a missile version

Minmater us... projectiles, some missiles... As with the mini combat cruisers, you get a ganker or a speed tanker (rupture vs stabber) how about a fast destroyer with a tracking bonus: 5% to max velocity per level, 7.5 to tracking per level?

Amarr use: mainly lasers, an oddball missile frig and a drone cruiser: meh, here I'd go with gank vs tank: a 5%armor resist per level in place of the laser damage bonus (but as with many amarr ships, I think the 10% cap use bonus needs to be looked at).

Roles? meh the same one, but allowing more flexibility in skill paths. A newb training for a vexor could find the "new" gallente destroyer more suited to his/her skill path.
Same goes for a caldari pilot going for a caracal/Drake/Raven
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#39 - 2012-02-20 11:00:57 UTC
Verity Sovereign wrote:
I would simply give players a choice of weapon type for their destroyers, or gank vs tank.

For T1's
Caldari use rails and Missiles, the current one uses rails, give us a missile version

Same goes for a caldari pilot going for a caracal/Drake/Raven



Although I´m a huge fan of missiles, the moment a 7 launcher hardpoint destroyer shows up, you make the already hardly used caracal compleet useless, and quite some frigates as well.

As said before, fix cruisers and see if there is a niece left for a destroyer. Already the Caracal is this ship you fly untill you´ve got the money and skills for a Drake, that is about a month.
Ceptia Cyna
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2012-02-20 12:27:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Ceptia Cyna
RougeOperator wrote:
I wouldnt mind haveing more destroyer hull type ships.

They Dont have to have combat bonuses only or they could be focused roles like neuts or webs or Drones.


A gallente drone destroyer that can put out 5 light drones. or 2 med and 3 light.

A Caldari destroyer with light missile bonuses. Not rockets mind you but light missiles. So people might actually use them pvp.

A minnie one with no weapon bonus just a bonus to Shield boosting or something lame since the Minnieone is already good.

A Amarr one with a bonuse to Neuts or something.

There are lots of interesting things that could be done with the class of ships. That give you more options and make them interesting.

And not all of them have to be good. Just having options is nice sometimes.



WTB Missiles Destroyer! :D

/pets the poor Caracal
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