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Which Amarr BS for L4 mission
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Tiberius XIII
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-02-14 17:30:48 UTC
Hi all, am new to eve (and I know a fair distance from BS) but which would be better for level 4's. Navy Armageddon or Abaddon. I know Abaddon is a bugger for cap but you can substitute in cap injector where as Armageddon has more Cap. In my little knowledge I feel a navy Armageddon would be more generous to aless sp'd character

Also for level 4's does one run pulse or beam.

I do appreciate any help or support you can offer. I have a friend who has played eve for a while and says the forums are 'generally very friendly' lol.

Thanks again
Alara IonStorm
#2 - 2012-02-14 17:36:45 UTC
Tiberius XIII wrote:

Also for level 4's does one run pulse or beam.

Tech 1 use Meta 4 Beam Lasers, T2 use Mega Pulse Lasers and Scorch Ammunition.

Abbadon with a Cap Booster is quite normal but an Apoc is often good for newer players thanks to the range bonus which helps to counter NPC Tracking Disruptor's and get more DPS at range. That and its stable tank while not as strong is newbe friendly and good enough for most missions.
Liam Mirren
#3 - 2012-02-14 17:39:04 UTC
The navy Geddon only does more DPS if you use T2 sentries on it, otherwise the Abaddon works better. On low SP I'd urge you to use the apoc though; easier to fit, better cap control and the range bonus means you can get away with T1 turrets. Once you have good skills and can use T2 pulses then the Abaddon will be better, but it's never easy to use or allows for any mistakes.

Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
Mike712
Tenth Plague of Egypt
#4 - 2012-02-14 18:06:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Mike712
Baddon does indeed need allot of cap mods to run it's guns and a cap booster to run it's tank.

Geddons ROF bonus somewhat negates the cap bonus however, it also chews through scorch crystals very fast.

Baddon has the resist bonus, but the geddon gets an extra low meaning it can fit one more resist mod without sacrificing a heat sink, resulting in very similar tanks on both ships.

Geddon is somewhat limited by CPU, you may need some faction hardeners, which will bring it closer to the cost of a baddon.

Baddon can fit T1 mega beams, geddon can't as it doesn't have the grid for them, this is something to think about if you can't use T2 guns as pulse only really work well in level 4s with scorch ammo. T1 gun mega pulse Apoc is Also an option due to the range bonus.

Geddon may be a better option if you have T2 sentry drones.

Navy apoc is probably my favorite not T2/Pirate amarr BS for Lv4s, it's got a good tank due to 8 lows and it's very easy going on cap and while the DPS may seem weak at first it's easy to overlook the range bonus meaning you can use higher damage crystals more of the time.

Regards, Mike712 The BattleClinic Team
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2012-02-14 18:34:13 UTC
Id recomend navy apoc allso .... Ease of fitting for newguy combined with range bonus.
Kneebone
K-H Light Industries
#6 - 2012-02-14 22:18:26 UTC
All of the amarr BS's are good at what they do for L4 missions. Here is my take:

Abaddon - Requires the most skill points to fly. It is cap intensive and should not be considered until you get T2 Pulse weapons for Scorch. Against non EM/Thermal rats you can try to overwhelm with superior EM/Thermal damage or change to an Arty/AC fit, but you lose the damage bonus.

Geddon/Navy Geddon - cheap, but still a hard hitting ship. Can fit T2 Sentry and a light of lights. Lots of lows for a good tank and weapons mods. Navy Geddon expands on the base hull's performance wonderfully. Drones allow for more flexibility against none EM/Thermal rats.

Apoc/Napoc - Does not have the DPS potential, but has a significant range advantage for damage projection. Mega Pulse II's with Scorch will hit at all mission ranges without a problem. Also most cap friendly and has the ability to fit a full rack of projecticles for off damage rats without losing too much performance.

Of course if money isn't an issue, there is always the Nightmare...
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2012-02-15 00:42:54 UTC
Q. Which [choose race] battleship for lvl4 missions?

A1. Machariel.
A2. Rattlesnake.
A3. Tengu.

Get with the program, fly some real ships :-)

/me ducks.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.
Iris Bravemount
Golden Grinding Gears
#8 - 2012-02-15 09:35:52 UTC
Hi,

I've been running missions in Amarr BSs for a few weeks now, and while I never tried the Armageddon, I can confirm that the Apocalypse is what you will want to go for.

I tried the Abbadon once, but sold it within the day, because the lower range, and absence of AB bcs of cap issues are a real handicap, resulting in much higher mission time.

With Meta 4 Pulse guns, a t2 AB and a faction tank with 1 LAR, you'll still be cap stable with decent skills. You will never get in big trouble if you keep moving (roughly 300m/s, which avoids most of BS damage). With radio crystals you can easily snipe frigates at 60+ km (instapop) and you can dish out respectable damage with multi/gamma/xray in the 18-28 km ranges. (assuming no range enhancing mods)

Medium and Light drones will help with annoying small ships.

You can also fit 2 Missile launchers for Angel rats, which will resist most of your laser's damage. Even with subpar missile skills (3-4 in everything) your Nova missiles will seriously hurt angel ships. I also use trauma missiles on Guristas/EoM, but that's a matter of taste I guess, no substential gain in DPS compared to a full range of laser guns.

"I will not hesitate when the test of Faith finds me, for only the strongest conviction will open the gates of paradise. My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity." - Paladin's Creed
Elistea
BLUE Regiment.
#9 - 2012-02-15 10:37:07 UTC
Definitely Navy Apoc. It has HUGE cap + weapon cap bonus + very nice powergrid. U can easyly fit full rack of weapons, 2 reppers, good resistances and still be cap stable.
Both geddon and Abaddon have a bit more dmg but sustain of Navy Apoc beats that.

Definitely best choice till u will able to fly Paladin.
Darthewok
Perkone
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-02-15 10:54:34 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:

Abbadon with a Cap Booster is quite normal but an Apoc is often good for newer players thanks to the range bonus which helps to counter NPC Tracking Disruptor's and get more DPS at range. That and its stable tank while not as strong is newbe friendly and good enough for most missions.


This is accurate.
Apoc is the easiest to get a mix of range, damage and tank on.

Though, to give the best advice, for missions cross train either to Ravens or Dominixes.
Because they can switch types of ammo to do different types of damage depending on the NPCs.
Amarr BS' lack of switchable damage types is a real handicap given that even in Amarr Space, numerous missions are against NPC types resistant to EM/Therm.
It is no fun to do well in one mission versus Blood Raiders/Sansha, then have a tough time the next mission against Gurista/Angels.

CAVEAT RICHARDUS VOLVERE - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0
Liam Mirren
#11 - 2012-02-15 12:06:52 UTC
Darthewok wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:

Abbadon with a Cap Booster is quite normal but an Apoc is often good for newer players thanks to the range bonus which helps to counter NPC Tracking Disruptor's and get more DPS at range. That and its stable tank while not as strong is newbe friendly and good enough for most missions.


This is accurate.
Apoc is the easiest to get a mix of range, damage and tank on.

Though, to give the best advice, for missions cross train either to Ravens or Dominixes.
Because they can switch types of ammo to do different types of damage depending on the NPCs.
Amarr BS' lack of switchable damage types is a real handicap given that even in Amarr Space, numerous missions are against NPC types resistant to EM/Therm.
It is no fun to do well in one mission versus Blood Raiders/Sansha, then have a tough time the next mission against Gurista/Angels.


Ravens and domi do mediocre dps compared to proper Amarr laser powerhouses, while I agree to the "em/thermal is limited" then at least point people in the RIGHT direction: Machariel/Vargur.

Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
Cyzlaki
BRAWLS DEEP
HYPE-TRAIN
#12 - 2012-02-15 12:08:50 UTC
Apoc.
Daphny Naarma
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2012-02-15 12:12:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Daphny Naarma
Ill give another perspective of it - not trying to convince anyone, just an additonal perspective - I do not have perfect skills in BS/Large turrets on my Amarr mission char and went with society's mantra "go with the Apoc, it's easier to fit etc...".

So I got one. After a few days I got an Abaddon and it works a lot better - for me. I do have most Vs in 'core' skills though (cap/grid etc) and I have no problem with cap on the Abaddon. I use meta4 pulse and a TE (T2) in the lows, together with three HS (T2), two mission spec resist (T2) and a faction LAR.

When needed, one HS is switched either for an EANM (T2) or an armor of correct res, but as you learn the missions, DPS becomes a better and better 'tank' and I mostly run with the earlier setup (1xTE, 3xHS, 2xSpec res, 1xLAR).

Using microwave, I can pop frigates at 60km (hits about half of the times, the Apoc guy above must be able to get them even a little bit further out?) and reliantly at 50km and range doesn't feel like a big concern. Note that this isn't something I "happened to end up with" - I have a set of meta4 beams as well and am 'mentally' closer to a 'beamguy' and used that for a long while - I simply noticed the pulses do the work faster with my playstyle.

That being said... there is no point for me trying to convince someone that Abaddon would be better than an Apoc, for a 'lower' skilled player, because in most cases, it probably isn't. I can, however, say that if you have good core skills (cap/fitting etc), the Abaddon is NOT that hard to play, as some make it sound like. I have 0 cap problems (mostly using AB), even with the said setup. That char has 9.8-10 with a couple of corps now from mission running so it's not about EFT warrioring either.

Good luck wathever you choose!
Darthewok
Perkone
Caldari State
#14 - 2012-02-15 13:01:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Darthewok
Liam Mirren wrote:
[quote=Darthewok]Ravens and domi do mediocre dps compared to proper Amarr laser powerhouses, while I agree to the "em/thermal is limited" then at least point people in the RIGHT direction: Machariel/Vargur.


OK. If you want to take the long term view (long long months of training time and hundreds of million ISK), the pimpiest ships are Machariel/Vargur. Really high SP (two-race BS/Marauder skills) and price barrier, but really badass.

CAVEAT RICHARDUS VOLVERE - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0
Gotrek Gurnisson
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2012-02-17 13:13:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Gotrek Gurnisson
I started out in an Geddon, moved through the Apoc and got into an Abbadon just as I finished training my cap skills got to the right level to fly it safely. As others have pointed out T1 pulses dont reach out a great distance, which can result in you needing to spend time chasing ships around with an AB to get them into range - which can slow missions up considerably.

Im due to step up to T2 weapons in the next few weeks, but here is my opinion based on T1 fits:

1) The Geddon is primarily a Pulse laser boat that struggles to fit the larger beams due to limited PG, but can just about fit dual-beams without gimping its tank too badly. Can do horrendous dps close in but I got fed up of having to chase enemies around in space for the medium range and long range missions - as some rats like to orbit at 40-50km.

2) The Apoc is an all-round flexible ship, with sufficient PG and CPU to fit almost any combination of weapons, tank or dps mods. Fairly easy to set up a decent dual-rep setup without affecting DPS. Does great in the longer ranged missions where you can use the range of beams effectively, but the lack of a damage bonus in closer range missions is quite noticeable.

3) Abaddon - difficult to fit, and reliant on having either a cap booster, or a decent set of basic support skills. However once you get into it and get a decent stable fit working then you probably wont want to swap back to the other ships until you are ready for either a Navy Apoc or Paladin / faction ship.

My mission fit for quite a while has been the following:

[Abaddon, Mission Fit]
8 x Modulated Megabeam + Imperial Navy Ammo
4 x Cap Recharger II
1 x LAR II
2 x Armor Hardener Resist Type 1
2 x Armor Hardener Resist Type 2
1 x Heat Sink II
3 x CCC I rigs
5 x Infiltrator II
5 x Acolyte II

DPS is sufficient for almost all L4 missions, with a half decent cap stable tank for semi-afk running.

I have recently started playing around with cap unstable fits that do more dps, either reliant on pulsing the tank, or using cap boosters as I am ultimately planning to learn shield tanking to aim for a Nightmare - but to date the extra heat sink didnt really increase my dps by all that much, and missions only usually take a few minutes to run with the cap stable fit listed above - but with the knowledge of a rock solid tank and little danger of losing the ship.

One important thing to note: Its almost impossible to fit a full rack of T2 Megabeams or Tachyons to the Abaddon without badly gimping its tank, as it runs out of power grid. However you can fit a full rack of T2 pulses fairly easily that will happily hit out to 45km+10km falloff using Scorch crystals. I still like the extra range of beams however so will be aiming at either Navy Apoc or Paladin as the next step up for mission running when I finally get T2 beams.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#16 - 2012-02-17 16:39:38 UTC
Tiberius XIII wrote:
Hi all, am new to eve (and I know a fair distance from BS) but which would be better for level 4's. Navy Armageddon or Abaddon. I know Abaddon is a bugger for cap but you can substitute in cap injector where as Armageddon has more Cap. In my little knowledge I feel a navy Armageddon would be more generous to aless sp'd character

Also for level 4's does one run pulse or beam.

I do appreciate any help or support you can offer. I have a friend who has played eve for a while and says the forums are 'generally very friendly' lol.

Thanks again



Once you have the ISK, train Caldari BS 4 and buy a Nightmare. It's radically superior to any other laser boat for missions.

And it looks cooler.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
drinking12many
Nine Inch Ninja Corp
#17 - 2012-02-17 17:19:01 UTC
I run something pretty close to this most of the time with my alt... it works quite well. Twisted. Sure it uses cap boosters but most the time I dont even need them. Granted I have most of my skills pretty high up.



[Apocalypse Navy Issue, Apocalypse Navy Issue: Lvl 4 ]
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Large Armor Repairer

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
100MN Analog Booster Rockets
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L

Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I


Acolyte II x5
Warrior II x5
Hammerhead II x5
Saul Shardani
People of the Saiya
Silent Company
#18 - 2012-02-18 02:40:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Saul Shardani
Malcanis wrote:
Tiberius XIII wrote:
Hi all, am new to eve (and I know a fair distance from BS) but which would be better for level 4's. Navy Armageddon or Abaddon. I know Abaddon is a bugger for cap but you can substitute in cap injector where as Armageddon has more Cap. In my little knowledge I feel a navy Armageddon would be more generous to aless sp'd character

Also for level 4's does one run pulse or beam.

I do appreciate any help or support you can offer. I have a friend who has played eve for a while and says the forums are 'generally very friendly' lol.

Thanks again



Once you have the ISK, train Caldari BS 4 and buy a Nightmare. It's radically superior to any other laser boat for missions.

And it looks cooler.

whoa whoa whoa here guy. A Nightmare looks cooler than a Abaddon or Navy Geddon? Maybe its just my Amarr Fanboi-ness coming out, but I can think of several ships that look cooler than a Nightmare.