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on CCP Dern's demise: A gentle suggestion to CCP
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Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#1 - 2012-02-16 04:54:47 UTC
Pirate alliance The Bastards recently got a kill of great note in the pirate community (Thread on it here)

API Verified kill here.

What dropped upon destroying that Cockroach was a dev-only ship called an Enigma that requires the skill of Jove Frigate V to fly.

CCP reportedly took the Enigma back and gave the pirates 2 PLEX. That seems like a really raw deal to me... not very sandboxy.

I would like to make a gentle suggestion for CCP to issue those two pirates ONE Gold Magnate to split between them, as they would have had to split a single Enigma had they been allowed to keep it. I mean, that's probably the most amazing and fortuitous act of piracy I've ever heard of happening in EvE. Not since m0o pirates killed the Gold Magnate has anything come close. I don't have a horse in this race... I don't even know those guys. I just think they earned it and that's all I have to say.

If you agree with me, say so here.

If not, let this thread die. Thanks. Pirate

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#2 - 2012-02-16 04:56:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Akirei Scytale
There have been a dozen threads on this before, and honestly, be thankful their reward was PLEXs and not a ban, as would be the case in quite a few games.

It was just a gank.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#3 - 2012-02-16 04:57:42 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
There have been a dozen threads on this before, and honestly, be thankful their reward was PLEXs and not a ban, as would be the case in quite a few games.

Really? You think they could have gotten banned? What's the charge? Isn't any target of opportunity fair game?

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Azriel Geist
Pure Victory
#4 - 2012-02-16 04:59:26 UTC
Gogela wrote:
Pirate alliance The Bastards recently got a kill of great note in the pirate community (Thread on it here)

API Verified kill here.

What dropped upon destroying that Cockroach was a dev-only ship called an Enigma that requires the skill of Jove Frigate V to fly.

CCP reportedly took the Enigma back and gave the pirates 2 PLEX. That seems like a really raw deal to me... not very sandboxy.

I would like to make a gentle suggestion for CCP to issue those two pirates ONE Gold Magnate to split between them, as they would have had to split a single Enigma had they been allowed to keep it. I mean, that's probably the most amazing and fortuitous act of piracy I've ever heard of happening in EvE. Not since m0o pirates killed the Gold Magnate has anything come close. I don't have a horse in this race... I don't even know those guys. I just think they earned it and that's all I have to say.

If you agree with me, say so here.

If not, let this thread die. Thanks. Pirate


I fail to see what actual skill was employed here. Wasn't this just dumb luck?

Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#5 - 2012-02-16 05:01:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Gogela
Luck is a skill when you are a pirate. Big smile

edit:
In fact... in my humble experience luck has everything to do with being a pirate. I have sat on gates literally for hours hoping to get lucky and have something amazing come through. Most of the time nothing does. It's still worth it. I've stalked wormhole corps for weeks hoping for a convoy... got lucky a few times. It's not the isk/hr... it's the hunt... and the hope... that you will get lucky. I think luck/gambling is a fundamental part of the pirate experience. That is what I mean by "luck is a skill when you are a pirate". When you think about what a pirate actually does... it's not "elite PvP"... it's piracy. So no Azriel Geist, you are not explicitly wrong... but piracy is 5% skill, 10% trickery, planning, and preparation, 10% guts, and 75% luck. That's just my experience.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#6 - 2012-02-16 05:06:45 UTC
Hmmmm.... yeah, I could go for that. :)

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
St Mio
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2012-02-16 06:42:31 UTC
They should change the Cockroach's item description to mention them for posterity's sake :D
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#8 - 2012-02-16 07:11:53 UTC
Gogela wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
There have been a dozen threads on this before, and honestly, be thankful their reward was PLEXs and not a ban, as would be the case in quite a few games.

Really? You think they could have gotten banned? What's the charge? Isn't any target of opportunity fair game?


The 7 Biggest D1ck Moves in the History of Online Gaming (you'll have to "modify" the url a bit as the "dirty word filter" scrubs it as well)

Read this article and pay special attention to #5 and #3. In other games, DEVs and GMs get a bit "touchy" when you defy their expectations and/or humiliate them... and they will often respond by taking away "their ball" or "kick you out of the arena" entirely.

In this case... a DEV probably forgot to cloak himself up while he was doing something "important." It just simply should not have happened.

How did you Veterans start?
Valei Khurelem
#9 - 2012-02-16 07:59:06 UTC
devs need to learn to fly better, how did they get ganked by those idiots?

"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP."   - CCP Ytterbium
Mnengli Noiliffe
Doomheim
#10 - 2012-02-16 08:10:52 UTC
i'd rather they removed 2 PLEX and ban them for a week as a preemptive measure against interfering with bug hunting.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#11 - 2012-02-16 08:12:05 UTC
You want sandbox here you go.

Dev logs on special event character a jovian and equips an eldlion.

Developer hunts down enigma and destroys it an any accompanying allies of ship carrying said ship.

This would mark the second time a jovian ship has utterly destroyed a player.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#12 - 2012-02-16 18:39:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Gogela
ShahFluffers wrote:
Gogela wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
There have been a dozen threads on this before, and honestly, be thankful their reward was PLEXs and not a ban, as would be the case in quite a few games.

Really? You think they could have gotten banned? What's the charge? Isn't any target of opportunity fair game?


The 7 Biggest D1ck Moves in the History of Online Gaming (you'll have to "modify" the url a bit as the "dirty word filter" scrubs it as well)

Read this article and pay special attention to #5 and #3. In other games, DEVs and GMs get a bit "touchy" when you defy their expectations and/or humiliate them... and they will often respond by taking away "their ball" or "kick you out of the arena" entirely.

In this case... a DEV probably forgot to cloak himself up while he was doing something "important." It just simply should not have happened.

Ahhh... I see now. You aren't alluding to a EULA caveat I'm unaware of... you just don't thin that some of those d*** moves were in fact some of EvE's finest moments! I respectfully disagree... those are great acts of a55hattery, and great moments in eve.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#13 - 2012-02-16 18:43:14 UTC
Mnengli Noiliffe wrote:
i'd rather they removed 2 PLEX and ban them for a week as a preemptive measure against interfering with bug hunting.


To be fair, they were the ones doing the bug hunting.
JC Anderson
RED ROSE THORN
#14 - 2012-02-16 18:58:05 UTC
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#15 - 2012-02-16 19:06:30 UTC
Gogela wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
There have been a dozen threads on this before, and honestly, be thankful their reward was PLEXs and not a ban, as would be the case in quite a few games.

Really? You think they could have gotten banned? What's the charge? Isn't any target of opportunity fair game?




Actually, it's one of the very first things in the Terms of Service:

You may not abuse, harass or threaten another player or authorized representative of CCP, including customer service personnel and volunteers. This includes, but is not limited to: petitioning with false information in an attempt to gain from it or have someone else suffer from it; sending excessive e-mails, EVE-mails or petitions; obstructing CCP Employees from doing their jobs; refusal to follow the instructions of a CCP Employee;



although, as an aside, I think this line (it's the very last thing to be listed):


or implying favoritism by a CCP Employee.



Is absolute bullshit



They were very lucky they were not banned and I am in the process of writing an email to CCP's Internal Affairs department.

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#16 - 2012-02-16 19:09:35 UTC
Bumblefck wrote:



They were very lucky they were not banned and I am in the process of writing an email to CCP's Internal Affairs department.


Oh please, this is far from the first time CCP has been blown up.
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#17 - 2012-02-16 19:12:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Bumblefck
It's not the fact that they were blown up.


E: Well ok, partly it is, and in particular the manner in which it was handled

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#18 - 2012-02-16 19:15:26 UTC
Bumblefck wrote:
It's not the fact that they were blown up.


kinda is.

Do you have any idea how often CCP veritas got shot at while he was working on TiDi?
Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#19 - 2012-02-16 19:21:47 UTC
Nova Fox wrote:
You want sandbox here you go.

Dev logs on special event character a jovian and equips an eldlion.

Developer hunts down enigma and destroys it an any accompanying allies of ship carrying said ship.

This would mark the second time a jovian ship has utterly destroyed a player.


Supported.....want the video too...

I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#20 - 2012-02-16 19:23:26 UTC
Bumblefck wrote:
Actually, it's one of the very first things in the Terms of Service:
You may not abuse, harass or threaten another player or authorized representative of CCP, including customer service personnel and volunteers. This includes, but is not limited to: petitioning with false information in an attempt to gain from it or have someone else suffer from it; sending excessive e-mails, EVE-mails or petitions; obstructing CCP Employees from doing their jobs; refusal to follow the instructions of a CCP Employee;

although, as an aside, I think this line (it's the very last thing to be listed):
or implying favoritism by a CCP Employee.
Is absolute bullshit
They were very lucky they were not banned and I am in the process of writing an email to CCP's Internal Affairs department.

No. You are straight up wrong there. Nothing in there pertains in any way to what happened.

Quote:
You may not abuse, harass or threaten another player or authorized representative of CCP, including customer service personnel and volunteers.

Consider a scenario of a player getting ganked. By your rationale, if what happened to CCP Dern qualifies as "abuse, harassment, or threatening, than everyone who engages in any PvP is equally guilty. What this line is talking about is OUT of game. In-game we harass eachother all the time. Think about the precedent that would be set if this were not the case. Almost any actions in game would be bannable.
Quote:
This includes, but is not limited to: petitioning with false information in an attempt to gain from it or have someone else suffer from it; sending excessive e-mails, EVE-mails or petitions;

Not relevant at all in this context.
Quote:
obstructing CCP Employees from doing their jobs; refusal to follow the instructions of a CCP Employee;

This is the ONLY part where a banning could have been justified. You do not have enough information to say if this was the case. If CCP Dern had instructed them to stop and they did not, than MAYBE they would be banned. I don't think that instruction was likely given though. I think CCP Dern just screwed up. That's not preventing a CCP employee from doing their job, that blowing up a ship with an inattentive pilot.

Bumblefck, if I ever commit a REAL crime and end up in front of the judge, I hope someone like you is the prosecutor.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
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