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Hulkageddon has started. Actually more than "an" Hulkageddon.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#1 - 2012-02-15 08:42:05 UTC
The official Hulkageddon manager has disappeared since a while.

Despite that, Goonswarm have formed a team dedicated to continued exhumers mass destruction that more than replaces Hulkageddon.

In fact, while the original Hulkageddon was something for the "wanna be average Joe ganker" and its balance and prizes were adequate to that, Goonswarm have basically endless funding, quite the grip over a lot of content of the game (some markets, vast 0.0 areas...) and therefore can afford a true, never ending carpet bombing strategy (without discerning between bots and not bots).


How do you feel about this?

Good for the game, because it removes many bots?

Bad because non bots are killed and podded as well?

Good or bad because it sort of pushes ice mining more to 0.0? (if the carpet bombing keeps being as thorough as is now)?

Good because more ships will be made?

Bad because nobody in hi sec can defend from an endless funds huge alliance?

This "different Hulkageddon" poses several philosophical and game design questions.

If they perma-keep the carpet bomb runs (I hope so!), basically this will remove hi sec ice mining for good.
I see it as one of those "exploits" that must be repeated till large playerbase enough quits and the developers wake up off their slumber. (not really exploit in the "illegal" sense of the term, they are fully entitled to this).
Hi sec dwellers are too helpless and fragmented to ever form an effective "counter" and they are against a mammoth, not the usual "average Joe" tears fuelled suicide gankers. Also there's no real defense against an organization that can just bring N + 1 ships whatever buffs / tank you fit (and Macks are not known for their survivability at all).

What tools does EvE give to counter / fight against this potentially (they have not confirmed or denied!) strong and continued initiative?

I rewrite the hypothetical terms in short:

1) Unlimited funding for the operation.
2) Unlimited duration.
3) Unlimited and thorough belts carpet bombing. You can see the same players killed multiple times a day, there's no "recoup the losses by mining more" factor. First time it happens and if Goons are smart they will keep this pressure for months.

Long term consequences of the above on the playerbase (in general)?
0.0 consequences / monopoly? (yes I am baiting you 0.0 haters!)
Choices left to the hi sec miners since whatever they do, they will die?

I find all of this quite intellectually amusing (am I slowing goonizing myself?)

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Valei Khurelem
#2 - 2012-02-15 08:43:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Valei Khurelem
It's a shame they don't do anything about the bots that will inevitably be grinding away on the other side of 0.0 space, but I can see GoonSwarm don't like fighting against the odds anymore, anything that kills the advantage bots have over normal players is a good thing but it's obvious that the Goons are just in it for the profit.

I'm not a 0.0 hater :P I just think this whole game is fubar, some areas more than others.

This basically reminds me of how the UK had a one day strike which was the most useless thing ever because the government actually made money from that and people didn't have to deal with all the usual b.s. public sector workers caused them, in the end this will go on for awhile and then everyone will forget it happened.

"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP."   - CCP Ytterbium
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#3 - 2012-02-15 08:57:22 UTC
Just dont travel to bat country.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
None ofthe Above
#4 - 2012-02-15 08:57:50 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
...

I find all of this quite intellectually amusing (am I slowing goonizing myself?)


Yes.

Yes you are.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
Mara Tessidar
Perkone
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-02-15 09:06:16 UTC
rodyas wrote:
Just dont travel to bat country.


I wasted like a fifth of my total possible sec status just podding some miner who didn't even have implants in.

Totally worth it.
Parthonax
#6 - 2012-02-15 09:06:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Parthonax
Valei Khurelem wrote:
It's a shame they don't do anything about the bots that will inevitably be grinding away on the other side of 0.0 space, but I can see GoonSwarm don't like fighting against the odds anymore, anything that kills the advantage bots have over normal players is a good thing but it's obvious that the Goons are just in it for the profit.

I'm not a 0.0 hater :P I just think this whole game is fubar, some areas more than others.

This basically reminds me of how the UK had a one day strike which was the most useless thing ever because the government actually made money from that and people didn't have to deal with all the usual b.s. public sector workers caused them, in the end this will go on for awhile and then everyone will forget it happened.


Tend to agree with this , bots in nullsec are a bigger problem than the icemining bots in highsec , we all know the size of the icemining bots in highsec and it is a problem but a problem that is visible to everyone and relative easy to solve
Ratting bots in null sec we all hear about but most of us have no clue how big it really is ,
we only know it is huge enough to fuel a thriving RMT market. there have been several posts over the last few weeks about a certain russian alliance leader admitting that botting earns him more than a RL job
, only a small window on what is really happening out there, but enough to fear the worse

I don't think that a annual hulkaggedon is gamebreaking , it keeps people sharp or give them a opportunity to explore other sides of the game for a few weeks , i only disaprove over the fact that it never seems to stop these days
so this is permanence
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#7 - 2012-02-15 09:10:24 UTC
I like bot country though.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#8 - 2012-02-15 09:39:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Parthonax wrote:


I don't think that a annual hulkaggedon is gamebreaking , it keeps people sharp or give them a opportunity to explore other sides of the game for a few weeks , i only disaprove over the fact that it never seems to stop these days


The novel idea is this, this could be a never ending and completely all encompassing and all time zones, 23/7 Hulkageddon.

I am exploring known ice belts, they are all empty even in The Forge!

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#9 - 2012-02-15 09:57:05 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Greetings from BAT Country.

I would like to take this time to provide some information upon this matter. As has been hinted at we have laid claim upon caldari space which shall now be refered to as BAT Country.

Now as you can see, our war on frost giants goes well however we do expect some bottom feeders who are not bots to get caught up in this. Should any wish to, they can request a form to to fill in and convince our gatekeeper that they are not bots flying ice chariots for the frost giants. Our internet wizards will also be providing a hell purge protection form soon which people can sign up to for a nominal fee (yet to be determind) per miner. Should you wish, you can contact myself right now and I will see about putting you onto a list of the forgiven so that you may continue to suckle upon the ice flows of space in peace.
Sasha Azala
Doomheim
#10 - 2012-02-15 10:11:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Sasha Azala
@ op

It's actually quite tragic how the community has changed over the years stirred up by people like yourself.

How bad is botting in this game does anyone really know, I doubt that.

I do know that the majority that suspect botting would not even know a bot if they saw one.

The paranoia about bots has grown over the years to a point that it's just a witch-hunt these days, being a witch-hunt it does not matter if someone's botting or not as long as they're mining.


A never ending Hulkageddon would more than likely damage the game more than bots do.


As for forcing people into 0.0, it won't happen, all you will do is force the non-botters that mine and like a quieter life out of the game. Is that what you want to do?


And no, I don't mine these days, not because of Hulkageddon I had already given up with it before the first Hulkageddon had even started. Used to get asked if I was a bot or not, sometimes I'd answer sometimes not as you get fed up with people asking. Someone mining in this game can look a bit like a bot because of the nature of mining in this game.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#11 - 2012-02-15 10:53:32 UTC
Sasha Azala wrote:
@ op

It's actually quite tragic how the community has changed over the years stirred up by people like yourself.



You don't get it, do you?

You'll never make mining viable nor fun if not by making it impossible until the devs do something drastic.

MMOs work by priorities set by both the developers and users, if you want to change something that blatantly sucks, you destroy it until it's changed. Only Goons can be used for that, because they can do that.

Otherwise, in the next 10 years you'll still sit there bored to tears, getting a pittance, while everything else gets improved, and upgraded around you.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Lady Vella
Doomheim
#12 - 2012-02-15 10:57:39 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
The official Hulkageddon manager has disappeared since a while.

Despite that, Goonswarm have formed a team dedicated to continued exhumers mass destruction that more than replaces Hulkageddon.

In fact, while the original Hulkageddon was something for the "wanna be average Joe ganker" and its balance and prizes were adequate to that, Goonswarm have basically endless funding, quite the grip over a lot of content of the game (some markets, vast 0.0 areas...) and therefore can afford a true, never ending carpet bombing strategy (without discerning between bots and not bots).


How do you feel about this?

Good for the game, because it removes many bots?

Bad because non bots are killed and podded as well?

Good or bad because it sort of pushes ice mining more to 0.0? (if the carpet bombing keeps being as thorough as is now)?

Good because more ships will be made?

Bad because nobody in hi sec can defend from an endless funds huge alliance?

This "different Hulkageddon" poses several philosophical and game design questions.

If they perma-keep the carpet bomb runs (I hope so!), basically this will remove hi sec ice mining for good.
I see it as one of those "exploits" that must be repeated till large playerbase enough quits and the developers wake up off their slumber. (not really exploit in the "illegal" sense of the term, they are fully entitled to this).
Hi sec dwellers are too helpless and fragmented to ever form an effective "counter" and they are against a mammoth, not the usual "average Joe" tears fuelled suicide gankers. Also there's no real defense against an organization that can just bring N + 1 ships whatever buffs / tank you fit (and Macks are not known for their survivability at all).

What tools does EvE give to counter / fight against this potentially (they have not confirmed or denied!) strong and continued initiative?

I rewrite the hypothetical terms in short:

1) Unlimited funding for the operation.
2) Unlimited duration.
3) Unlimited and thorough belts carpet bombing. You can see the same players killed multiple times a day, there's no "recoup the losses by mining more" factor. First time it happens and if Goons are smart they will keep this pressure for months.

Long term consequences of the above on the playerbase (in general)?
0.0 consequences / monopoly? (yes I am baiting you 0.0 haters!)
Choices left to the hi sec miners since whatever they do, they will die?

I find all of this quite intellectually amusing (am I slowing goonizing myself?)



They do nothing but run less than 5-10 jumps of jita/amarr - stay away from there n ur fine, our old corp is a massive mining corp n they lost nothing. Goons as fucktards
Sasha Azala
Doomheim
#13 - 2012-02-15 10:57:42 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Sasha Azala wrote:
@ op

It's actually quite tragic how the community has changed over the years stirred up by people like yourself.



You don't get it, do you?

You'll never make mining viable nor fun if not by making it impossible until the devs do something drastic.

MMOs work by priorities set by both the developers and users, if you want to change something that blatantly sucks, you destroy it until it's changed. Only Goons can be used for that, because they can do that.

Otherwise, in the next 10 years you'll still sit there bored to tears, getting a pittance, while everything else gets improved, and upgraded around you.



Do you mine?
Tore Vest
#14 - 2012-02-15 11:09:15 UTC
Hm.... where did I store my battlehulk..... Bear

No troll.
RogueAnt
Antares Shipyards
#15 - 2012-02-15 11:28:37 UTC  |  Edited by: RogueAnt
Khan Farshatok
Macabre Votum
Northern Coalition.
#16 - 2012-02-15 11:35:25 UTC
first as the initiator and main "organizer" of what is going on, let me be blunt. this is in no way shape or form any sort of hulkaggedon. this is quite simply me being bored and my corp joining in for the lol's. as for us not being in it for the tears, you really dont know goons :D

if for some reason though you heppened to be popped, podded and laughed at during our little run of tear gathering, then please feel free to fill out our "im not a bot" reimbursement form. because we really only wanted to kill da bots. :D

love, horses and ponies
khan
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#17 - 2012-02-15 11:37:59 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
You don't get it, do you?

You'll never make mining viable nor fun if not by making it impossible until the devs do something drastic.


You don't get it, do you?

The only people who want mining to be more fun are people who have never done it.

Making mining more viable or fun is not going to stop bored Goons suicide ganking anything that moves or doesn't move, as the case may be.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Sasha Azala
Doomheim
#18 - 2012-02-15 11:47:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Sasha Azala
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Sasha Azala wrote:
@ op

It's actually quite tragic how the community has changed over the years stirred up by people like yourself.



You don't get it, do you?

You'll never make mining viable nor fun if not by making it impossible until the devs do something drastic.

MMOs work by priorities set by both the developers and users, if you want to change something that blatantly sucks, you destroy it until it's changed. Only Goons can be used for that, because they can do that.

Otherwise, in the next 10 years you'll still sit there bored to tears, getting a pittance, while everything else gets improved, and upgraded around you.



Do you mine?







As you've not answered that yes or no question, I'll assume you don't.

You can't call for change if you don't even participate in that activity (health and safety does apply here) what gives you the right to ask for changes under that condition? You could argue but it might be more exciting and you would then mine, but the reality is it's never likely to be as exciting as combat can be. So the chances are you would not do it even if there were changes to it.


Also consider there are a lot of miners who might like it the way it is, albeit they would not mind a larger income from it.


If people want change to mining, making a noise and stamping your feet about it not the right way to go about it. Unfortunately this day and age with limited resource in RL some people have learned that you can get things done quicker by making a louder noise than someone else, but that is similar to a parent giving into their children so as to have a quieter life.

If people really want to change mining then they should petition it through their representatives (CSMs), as long as the CSMs act professionally and have a good working knowledge of the game then CCP will more than likely listen to them at least.


Would be interesting to know how many miners like it the way it is compared with those that would make it more interactive, but any attempt at trying to gain that information is likely to not truly represent the true figures, but might give an idea.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#19 - 2012-02-15 11:48:34 UTC
Hulkaggeddon is completely irrelevant.


  • Some newbies that have just gotten into their first Hulks will quit sooner than later.
  • The veterans are in Covetors, friend's worm holes or taking a missions break
  • The bots make so much ISK in all the time that they are not being ganked that they just absorb this little cost.


The only thing it does is make a bit of a fuss, give the Goons the attention that they are desperate for and present some (g/w)ankers with an occasion to get in a circle and stroke their e-peens.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#20 - 2012-02-15 11:49:33 UTC
Remember about it when you will be voitng four "your" CSM candidate

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
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