EVE General Discussion

Unfortunatly all the other options I've seen are going to **** off 1000's of players on either side of the debate and probably cause mass ragequits. CCP could've probably smacked supers with the nerfbat really hard 4 or 5 years ago and gotten away with it because they were so rare. The "HIC" option is probably going to be the only one I see that would keep most people happy.

Valid point. But sometimes tears are necessary if you want to fix your game in the long term.

Problem: Titans **** everything.

Solution A: Retool titans.

Solution B: Introduce something new in order to **** Titans, then re-balance once the dust settles months down the line.

Tell me, which sounds more elegant to you? The problem here is not far removed from the problems which arise when you introduce a new predator to an ecosystem in order to combat a pest.

Are you reading my suggestions, or dismissing them offhand because of my alliance?

Genuinely curious, because you're being excessively hostile, while I'm trying to hold a debate here. You also obviously haven't been reading what i have to say, as the "anti subcap" focus would shift from Titans (accessible only to a handful of old alliances) to Carriers (more disposable, accessible to any alliance or even individual, flexible, and capable of both winning or losing against subcaps in an engagement).

I want balance, you seem to want to give everyone omnitools.

I'd also like to point out that your solution doesn't fix the fact that some capitals do nearly nothing, while others do everything, while mine is introducing rock-paper-scissors balance literally by definition.

Please read my posts before commenting on them.

I am, although you beeing a testie I attribute the typical Goon view to you. Which incidentally, you have said nothing to make me change my mind about.

As for your solutions, no I dont think it will work. I think it will only push titans off the sub-cap field (making your side of this debate very happy), while preserving the titan blobs in the old established alliances as the only ones who have them, and where the only effective counter to a titan blob would be a bigger titan blob.

All of which is pretty much exactly the opposite of what I want to see. I dont belive there should be artificial barriers between ship classes. I dont belive the capital game today is nearly complex enough. And I dont think countering a blob with more of the same blob is very good gameplay.

The issue here is not "the blob", it is the Titan. And I also brought up the problem of the Supercarrier's overnerf, and the Dreadnought's marginal role.

The titan is not specialized, and capable in any situation with minimal support. In numbers, it is unstoppable. They should not be used as anti-supcap ships, as they themselves are nearly immune to subcaps once a critical mass is reached. That critical mass is extremely low. The counter should be farther down the capital chain - in my suggestion, Carriers. This allows for fights where the better coordinated fleet wins, not the one with Titans.

The best solution is to just add titan size weapon. And problem solved. Clear and simple ;)

The problem with that is that it overlaps with the focused point of HIC's.

Oh the issue here is definitly about the blob as well as the titans. For years, the subcap blob ruled the north. Due to a combination of cluster limitations and the fact that titans werent nearly as numerous as they are today, the old NC managed to hold the north against several invasion attempts.

Enter the fight on lag with its server improvments, massive titan production and the banding together of "elite PVP" alliances fielding massive amounts of titans. The NC no longer had the numbers to employ nodecrashing tactics with the server improvements, and lost subcap after subcap battle in face of highly trained elite PVP fleets. Geminate fell without supers beeing fielded much at all. By the time of the siege of TVN-FM, NC resolve had been all but spent, but they tried one last massive effort. Which was countered by massive amounts of Titans. Losing Vale, the NC prepared to defend Tribute, the Goons got involved and the outcome once again went up in the air. The Tribute campaign however, saw more and more use of the Titan blob, which effectively countered the massive subcap fleets thrown into the meatgrinder. So, after 4 years, the elite PVP forces had finally found the counter to massive subcap fleets.

And here we are. Massive Titan fleets today represent the quality alternative to nullsec warfare, while the subcap blob still represent the quantity alternative. These two opposing strategies are two sides of the same problem. Now, we both ackowledge that the titan blob is OP compared to the subcap blob - and this is not how it should be. However - I think that a return to the subcap blob as the only viable strategy would remove the quality alternative to nullsec warfare, which I think should be preserved. The issue is to balance the gameplay without breaking it.

Titans are fine as is.

Origionally they were anti-ship with an AoE DD. Very few in existence is how it was supposed to be, they could never be anti-cap only so you would assume they hit everything on the field.

Then it became single target, repurposing the Titan to anti-cap ships.

Then the single target no longer shoots smaller ships

Then they lost their drones

Then they lost 20% of their hitpoints

And they still whine they are over powered because they are difficult to kill with their rifters cause it was cool since it worked for Luke Skywalker and they fail to bring cap ships of their own to counter the glass cannons fit with multiple tracking enhancers.

NEWSFLASH! You fly sub cap ships, you would win because the giant behemonths can't do **** and can't even become hangar queens since they don't dock making the ship entirely useless (Hello Mothership 2.0). But it wouldn't matter to you, because your lazy ass can't be bothered to train for a titan, your alliance can't bother to build them or make friends with people to obtain your own, you fail to even put the effort forward to try to get into cap ships because you don't liked them. Hey, the longer you don't try to topple these monsters the more they are being built...because you just can't be bothered to attack and only see yourself losing but it has to be the guy driving titan's fault.

I am against anything further being done to a titan, because alone it couldn't hit anything unless the target was webbed multiple times (to counter, get another titan FFS!). Nerf it so it can't hit smaller targets, nerf smaller ships to hit only things in their weight class then to balance it out (since you can't shoot vulnerable 2m thermal vents and its just a giant object with a huge buffer, then one would assume by game mechanics your 250mm auto cannon rounds and 425mm railguns are bouncing off armor plates the size of an american football field while Tachyon lasers are just warming them).

Balance other ships (Dreads!) to take out cap ships, just because you stop and half ass it to fly smaller ships since larger ships take so long to fly doesn't mean you get the advantage to screw over other pilots with more SP that dedicated to fly caps since you choose to half ass your training time for those smaller ships so you take smaller losses.