Ships & Modules

say i have a ship that has a radar sensor strength of 181 versus a falcon with the below setup
[Falcon, tech2]
Medium Remote Armor Repair System II
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Covert Cynosural Field Generator I
Cynosural Field Generator I
10MN MicroWarpdrive II
ECM - Ion Field Projector II
2x ECM - Multispectral Jammer II
ECM - Phase Inverter II
ECM - Spatial Destabilizer II
ECM - White Noise Generator II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
2x Signal Distortion Amplifier II
2x Medium Particle Dispersion Augmentor I
2x Warrior II

if the falcon puts all ecm modules on me, what's the percentage he won't jam me for 3 cycles (one minute)?
And can someone show me what the Bernoulli formula would look like for such a case?

hmmm...yeah thx, i was trying to get eveHQ to show ecm calculations. problem is, eft doesn't show overloaded stats and the projected effects aren't boosted by rigs, skills, modules of the jamming ship...are they?

Piece of **** forums ate my post, so you're not getting a nice and detailed explanation. Blame CCP for their inability to properly rip off an open-source forum after a year of "effort."

For your falcon versus something with 181 sensor strength, chance of all jammers to fail F = (((1 - (9.74687 / 181))^2) * ((1 - (4.87344 / 181))^3)) * (1 - (14.62031 / 181))^3 = 0.758194196^3 = 0.435854332

A generic formula would be something like:

F = (((1 - (M / S))^m) * ((1 - (O / S))^o)) * (1 - (R / S)^r)^n
Where F is chance for all jammers to fail, S is target sensor strength, M is multispectral jammer strength, m is number of multispectral jammers (ditto for O and R), and n is number of 20-second cycles.

Edit: There are only three types of jammers in practice -- multispectral, off-racial, and racial. That's because all racial jammers have identical off-racial and racial strengths, so you can merge them for calculations.

Are you a maths teacher or something.

Nerf ECM.

i love this formula because i can use it as a template, assuming standard null-sec pvp fit for falcons is 2 multispec and 1 of each faction ecm, plus a microwarpdrive. And thank you for making the values for lvl5 skills and for the fitting i described regarding rigs and modules. All i have to do now is play around with the "181" number without figuring out the tiddlywinks of the math.

F = (((1 - (9.74687 / S))^2) * ((1 - (4.87344 / S))^3)) * (1 - (14.62031 / S))^3

i was thinking of a curse with 4 conjunctive ECCM. I'm not sure if my opponents regularly overheat their ecms. is overheating a huge part of pvp? being a cheapskate carebear overheating seems expensive and risky during brainless mission running so it's a hard habit to break.

MinorFreak, Falcon fitttings tend to vary quite a bit. Most fit a heavier tank, but it really depends on the situation. You're assuming a Falcon that focuses almost entirely on jamming, which is a worst-case scenario, and so isn't a bad assumption to make.

In general, I wouldn't suggest fitting four ECCM modules on a Curse, or on any other ship. If you're facing that much ECM pressure, you need backup, not more sensor strength.

I don't know if ECM piloats overheat their jammers. I regularly overheat remote reppers when flying a Logistics ship, but that's because no amount of nanite repair paste I can conceivably use during an engagement will cost more than a properly fitted fleet ship.


Law student. But as was said, it's very basic math. These forums do not have a good way of writing mathematical formulas, sadly, so it looks needlessly complicated. The decimals don't help much, either. But most calculations in EVE are fairly simple, come to think of it.

It's fairly basic probability. I'll try to explain in a bit more detail if anyone is interested, although a good high-school math textbook should cover the subject in much more detail. The odds of two or more events occurring together is the product of the odds of each of those events occurring independently. For example, three events 1, 2, and 3 can occur with a probability of A, B and C, respectively; the probability of all three events occurring is A * B * C. If A = B = C, we can write the probability of all three occurring as A^3 instead.

The formula I wrote does the same thing. Multiplying the odds of each jammer failing gives us the odds of all of them failing. Just since there are multiple jammers with identical success/failure odds, it makes more sense to use exponents.

Recon 5 Falcon pilot here. 4 ECCMs are way too much. This will get you killed due to no tank at all. The Falcon gets about a 14 ECM strength with racials. If he is rainbow fit, he will likely only have 1 Amarr jammer. This is the typical configuration.

All recons have a very high natural sensor strength. Curse has 28. Just one ECCM will boost you to 56, meaning he will have a very good chance 1-(14/56)=75% of missing his jam attempt. Even the added possibility of his 3-4 additional off racials will not add a significant possibility of getting jammed.

The most likely event sequence is that the sabre will uncloak and pop bubble. He then begins to try locking you. Falcon will uncloak, wait out it's sensor recalibration delay (minimum of 5 seconds) and then try locking you. So you should have a good 10 seconds before you even get locked.

Use this time to lock targets, deploy your drones, and activate ECCM. Get moving a bit to reduce incoming damage. Now comes the hard part, ignore the Falcon and kill the Sabre. DIC is not just keeping you pinned, he has the majority of the dps. Killing him will free you to either gtfo or go for the Falcon as well.

If you are not jammed,.neut the crap out of the sabre and assign drones. Your buffer should be enough to handle him. Once the sabre is gone, the Falcon should screw off on his own. If he doesn't, MWD directly at him and ruin his day.

If the Falcon jams you first time, having your drones out and on aggressive will enable them to auto-aggress the first ship in range that red-boxes you. If the Falcon is out of your drone control range (very likely unless he is stupid), they will go after the Sabre as soon as he fires/points you. Be patient and don't panic. If you popped medium drones, he'll go down fast.

Once the Sabre is gone and his bubble dies, you are pretty much in control. You can try to close with the Falcon and engage with drones, or loot and gtfo. Falcon pilot would be a complete idiot if he sticks around. But you never know.

If you can get into neut range of the Falcon, by all means do it. He may panic and just freeze up. It only takes a trickle of cap to do a minimum range warp or activate a single jammer. So time your neuts to keep him capped out. This is also important because he may be smartbomb fit. With only drones to deal damage, neuting is very important to keep them from getting wiped out.

You forgot the "human fail factor" in this formula.......

very nice link.

you should use hammer IIs and if you go shield id used 2 eccm max on a curse or a low backup + 1 overheated eccm not more than that.
reason you should use hammers is cause you will cap the saber out right away and he will be moving in perfect speed for hammers to track him uless like said in your link he sits still.
also if you fit 4 eccm, you armor tank the curse? cause if not the saber will kill you before your drones finish him off.

so id say hammers 1 overheated eccm and a back up array. RF point and go mess that falcon up as well =p

Okay. let me start of by saying this. sabe gets a snigle mwd pulse on you after that the scram and the mwd shut off (as soon as you get a lock) you med drones shred him in about 40sec. then you either mwd out of the bubble and warp to a safe.
or you go after the faclon. could also just wait out the aggro timer and jump.

if you have 1 overheated eccm and a back up array and they have 1-2 falcon 1-2 saber you should **** em all.

so id use a nano curse with a mwd but w/e armor will work just as well and if you go armor why not use a 1600plate pilgrim?


forgot to add you are super over doing that eccm thing your dps is drones so you only need to get one lock. in which you cap him dry and put your drones on him. when you get that lock the falcon missed his jamms so you have like 20 sec which is more than 2 neut cycles by that time he is in low shield and has no cap. even if the falcon does get a lucky jamm on you the saber will die shortly after.

DO IT silly carebear i belive in you!