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Cloaking questions
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Daracon Rage
The Executives
#1 - 2012-02-13 03:16:45 UTC
Hey guys, couldn't find any info on the search but if you're fitting a cloak on a battleship, i've heard you can't warp with it on but can the battleship still use the MWD?

Also what happens if someone already has you locked, can you cloak or is it once you're targeted, is there no way to cloak?

Cheers
Dara
Linda Shadowborn
Dark Steel Industries
#2 - 2012-02-13 03:21:06 UTC
if you cloak up you cant use any modules and any modules currently active will shut off at the end of their cycle.

and if you are already targeted then you cant activate the cloak
Daracon Rage
The Executives
#3 - 2012-02-13 03:32:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Daracon Rage
Ahhh ok cool thanks, so I take it it's not really a viable strategy for getting close undetected unless you're a covert ops or a zippy little frigate?

EDIT: also how do Strategic Cruisers fare with a cloak, does it slow them down as much as everyone else?
Jesus Rambo
Criterion.
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#4 - 2012-02-13 03:46:47 UTC
Strategic cruisers with cloaks and the covert operations subsystem operate the same way as any covert ops cloaked ship.
Squidgey
Perkone
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-02-13 16:45:07 UTC
Linda Shadowborn wrote:
if you cloak up you cant use any modules and any modules currently active will shut off at the end of their cycle.

and if you are already targeted then you cant activate the cloak

AFAIK the modules shut off immediately. At least MWD and AB seem to.

Of course I could be wrong.
Alua Oresson
Aegis Ascending
Solyaris Chtonium
#6 - 2012-02-13 16:47:25 UTC
Squidgey wrote:
Linda Shadowborn wrote:
if you cloak up you cant use any modules and any modules currently active will shut off at the end of their cycle.

and if you are already targeted then you cant activate the cloak

AFAIK the modules shut off immediately. At least MWD and AB seem to.

Of course I could be wrong.


You are wrong. They complete their cycle. Hence the MWD/Cloak or Cloak/MWD trick. Depending on who you talk to.

http://pvpwannabe.blogspot.com/
Alua Oresson
Aegis Ascending
Solyaris Chtonium
#7 - 2012-02-13 17:01:26 UTC
Daracon Rage wrote:
Hey guys, couldn't find any info on the search but if you're fitting a cloak on a battleship, i've heard you can't warp with it on


This is correct. When it is active you can not warp with it active.

Daracon Rage wrote:
but can the battleship still use the MWD?


You can activate cloak and immediately hit MWD within about a second or two in order to activate your MWD. It will run for one cycle and then shut off. Conversely you can turn on the MWD first then hit cloak anytime. It will finish its current cycle and then shut off. You can have no modules active, nor can you activate any module while cloaked (disregarding your ability to activate within about a second of activating cloak that is there in order to compensate for lag).

Daracon Rage wrote:
Also what happens if someone already has you locked, can you cloak or is it once you're targeted, is there no way to cloak?

Cheers
Dara


Once you are targeted the only way to cloak is to break their target lock on you. Some ways to do so include the use of ECM modules (burst and targeted) and remote sensor dampeners. The only other way to cloak is to kill the people that have you targeted.

http://pvpwannabe.blogspot.com/
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#8 - 2012-02-13 17:45:06 UTC
Squidgey wrote:
AFAIK the modules shut off immediately. At least MWD and AB seem to.

Of course I could be wrong.


They don't, but they do seem to. The reason is pretty simple: prototype and improved cloaks impose a velocity penalty when activated, immediately slowing your ship. The prop mods will still finish their cycles.

To the OP, if you're wanting to sneak up on a ship, you also have to remember that cloaks impose a sensor recalibration delay -- a period after decloaking in which you cannot initiate targeting. After the delay is over, you can begin targeting -- a process that is longer with a cloak fitted due to the scan resolution penalty they inflict (though this can theoretically be overcome using sensor boosters or the like).

What does all that mean? In practical terms, the main offensive uses of cloaks come from ships with bonuses to cloaking: stealth bombers, force recons, and properly equipped T3s. Other uses include hiding logistics ships until combat has started. However, for most ships a cloak is a defensive/utility module to help them operate in hostile space, not to aid in actual combat.
Alua Oresson
Aegis Ascending
Solyaris Chtonium
#9 - 2012-02-13 18:43:02 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Squidgey wrote:
AFAIK the modules shut off immediately. At least MWD and AB seem to.

Of course I could be wrong.


They don't, but they do seem to. The reason is pretty simple: prototype and improved cloaks impose a velocity penalty when activated, immediately slowing your ship. The prop mods will still finish their cycles.

To the OP, if you're wanting to sneak up on a ship, you also have to remember that cloaks impose a sensor recalibration delay -- a period after decloaking in which you cannot initiate targeting. After the delay is over, you can begin targeting -- a process that is longer with a cloak fitted due to the scan resolution penalty they inflict (though this can theoretically be overcome using sensor boosters or the like).

What does all that mean? In practical terms, the main offensive uses of cloaks come from ships with bonuses to cloaking: stealth bombers, force recons, and properly equipped T3s. Other uses include hiding logistics ships until combat has started. However, for most ships a cloak is a defensive/utility module to help them operate in hostile space, not to aid in actual combat.


All correct. I would add that the re-calibration delay does not affect the use of modules that don't utilize targeting. Warp Disruption Field Generators, Interdiction Probe Launchers, Smartbombs, and FOF missiles are some of the mods. All except the FOF missiles have various uses that are assisted by being able to cloak.

http://pvpwannabe.blogspot.com/
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-02-13 21:04:45 UTC
2 questions:

* Do they have to have a target lock on you, or simply be "targeting" you - ie if they are trying to get a target lock, can I cloak before they achieve it?

* [quote] After the delay is over, you can begin targeting -- a process that is longer with a cloak fitted due to the scan resolution penalty they inflict (though this can theoretically be overcome using sensor boosters or the like).[/quote}
If you offline the cloak, does the sensor res penalty go away?
Ie. could I de-cloak and offline my cloak, and get a faster lock? I assume the sensor re-calibration timer doesn't go away, but if the scan res penalty goes away, it might help. Of course, it also means you can't hide nearly as fast after the attack.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#11 - 2012-02-13 21:39:35 UTC
Verity Sovereign wrote:
* Do they have to have a target lock on you, or simply be "targeting" you - ie if they are trying to get a target lock, can I cloak before they achieve it?


Yes, but if they're serious about getting you, they will lock very fast.

Verity Sovereign wrote:
If you offline the cloak, does the sensor res penalty go away?
Ie. could I de-cloak and offline my cloak, and get a faster lock? I assume the sensor re-calibration timer doesn't go away, but if the scan res penalty goes away, it might help. Of course, it also means you can't hide nearly as fast after the attack.


No, actually. This is one of the rare (only?) instances where fitting the module, not onlining it, gives the penalty.
Anya Ohaya
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-02-14 09:40:36 UTC
Alua Oresson wrote:

You are wrong. They complete their cycle. Hence the MWD/Cloak or Cloak/MWD trick. Depending on who you talk to.


Both work, if you do it quickly. But if you cloak first, and wait too long, you will not be able to activate the MWD. I don't know what the delay is, but it is not long. Many people prefer to hit cloak first, I guess because it reduces your chances of being locked (and you get locked fast with a MWD active).

Not all ships can do the cloak+MWD trick. Some ships (deep space transports fit for max cargo) accelerate very slowly, and will not make it to warp speed before the cloak forces the MWD to deactivate. (From my testing - perhaps with better skills and/or implants it could work). On the other hand the fact that you blink in an out of the overview might be enough to confuse some people. Cloak+MWD works well on cruisers, battlecruisers, and probably most battleships. I doubt any capital ships could pull it off (even if there were any scenarios where you could use it).

Regardless of how you do it, it is next to useless in PVP because of the targeting delay. Once you de-cloak it usually takes so long to target anything, your prey can just warp away.