Assembly Hall

I applaud the initiative behind any proposal which seeks to 'fix' Lowsec. Like many others, it is my belief that Lowsec should exist as a place for casual PvP.

Current mechanics make that difficult; the penalty for fighting in lowsec is the loss of security status, eventually locking the player out of Empire. A player is forced to either painfully rat their sec status up or create logistic alts to bring equipment in. These restrictions, IMO, are the problem. Eve may be a sandbox, but the engine which drives it has always been about combat.

Players should be able, without significant restriction, to find casual combat if they desire. There are many pilots located in Empire, who would enjoy casual combat in lowsec, if 1.) the security status 'punishment' was fixed, and 2.) if they feel they have a chance to get through gatecamps.


My proposal is this:

1.) Remove the security status hits for initiating combat against ships in all areas of lowsec EXCEPT for gates and stations. In other words, if you fire upon a frigate in a belt, planet, POCO, complex, or safespot, you suffer no loss of security status... at all. What CONCORD doesn't know won't hurt them.

2.) Combat wrongfully initiated upon any grid which contains sentry guns (i.e., gates and stations), will bring about sentry gun response and security status loss. Gatecamp mechanics, as they exist today, would remain unchanged.

3.) Podding anywhere in lowsec still incurs security status loss, as it does today. This allows pilots who seek the -10 Badge of Honor the ability to go 'full Pirate'.


I believe this proposal offers the most simple solution which will allow players, old and young alike, to try out casual lowsec combat without suffering penalty.

Let's face it... you stopped listening. Jack's proposal favors pirates too heavily... and you're a pirate. This is kinda like a nullsec group promoting playstyles that favor their game play while taking from others.

As a solo frigate pilot, I have not fought on a gate or station in the last four years. Perhaps your PvP happens there... mine does not. As a matter of fact, the only PvP I see at gates are gatecamps or gangs engaging gatecamps.

Negative. Security status restrictions, under my plan, would be removed unless on a station or gate. Under Jack's plan, the solo frigate pilot who goes to lowsec and engages in a belt still suffers a loss in security status.


Shall we look at some of those "good parts"?

Jack's plan puts a 'cap' on security status punishments which still occur even when two opponents meet in a belt and both choose to fight. My plan removes that; don't fight on gates or stations, you'll never suffer a SS punishment.

Jack's plan, which did not remove these SS punishments, then says "To compensate, make anyone with negative sec status a valid target while in lowsec, with no GCC or sentry repercussions." Let's be really clear on this one: If two pilots want to fight, one's going to head to a non-senty location and the other's going to follow. The only thing Jack's 'concession' does is open up more targets for roving gangs. As it stands now, I'd have to get to -5 SS to start worrying about getting my frig nailed on a gate in lowsec. Under Jack's plan, I have to worry about it much, much sooner.

Jack's items on highsec ganks and pod restrictions I have no issue with.

Jack's plan says: "Optionally, rework killrights to either remove them, or make them only usable in lowsec." What? Killrights are awarded to a ship which was destroyed and did not defend itself, right? I'd say in lowsec the most general application is, I catch your hauler, kill it, but then I have to watch my back for a bit. You want to remove this?

Items not mentioned is the new type of gatecamp Jack's proposal allows. But I've written enough about that in pages 9-10 of Jack's thread. And, given your posts, I doubt you'd listen if I took the time to restate them here.

In short, Jack's proposal starts with a damn fine premise... but becomes far too 'pro-pirate'. When it begins threatening solo play, I must disagree.

By removing sec hits from belts, planets, etc, they won't ever have to grind SS back up. You will never lose sec status if you fight in belts, planets, ect... so you don't have to worry about unwanted combat on a gate (except in the super-boosted OMS gatecamp thing... which I believe is acceptable).

Would this, in your opinion, bring in more casual PvP'ers from Empire?

You would sound more mature if you'd drop the insults. You simply come across as a rude adolescent. No one has a reading problem around here, your points are being heard (read) and understood. That a dissimilar opinion exists does not mean people are simply too 'fail' to understand your position. I have attempted to deal with you fairly and politely... are you capable of the same?

You keep trying to moderate a symptom. I believe it is best to address the cause.

You've not answered my question from the last post.

I also disagree with this proposal.

The reason is easy. If you are in gang than you will fight with a 90% chance at the gate.
Why? Because you have to pass through the gate.
Don't think that if you find a fleet with even numbers and same shiptypes ect. on a gate that if you
ask them to warp to a planet to fight that many people will say: Yes. This time is far away. We had it years ago.
You can still find it but you wont find it often.
So you have to decide if you want to fight these guys and ruin your sec status or to leave them if they don't want to.
This idea wont change low sec.

And allow killing people if they are in belts, on planets etc. you are still able to kill haulers or people who want to kill npcs.
Sorry but I cannot see a difference between belts and stargates or stations.

And yes, you can always create a fast log ship. You can do this also at the moment. Pirates use also scouts.
So if someone warps to the gate pirates may warp to the gate too and kill the guy. (concerning your post in Jacks's thread).
Of course it will be easier for people who have only one account but it will be also easier to create a trap for them.

And I don't say that I disagree just because I am a pirate. I also had to think alot about being a pirate. You have to pay attention on your wallet. You have to search for other ways to reimburse your ships and just because you want to do some small size pvp.
I think many people think about it too.