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A discussion on EAF or something.

Author
Something Random
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-02-08 22:54:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Something Random
Thread handed to more important concerns.

"caught on fire a little bit, just a little."

"Delinquents, check, weirdos, check, hippies, check, pillheads, check, freaks, check, potheads, check .....gangs all here!"

I love Science, it gives me a Hadron.

Wyte Ragnarok
#2 - 2012-02-08 23:12:12 UTC
Why those ships? You've taken:
Inquisitor (T1 version of Purifier (stealth bomber))
Merlin (T1 version of Hawk/Harpy (assault ships))
Maulus (T1 version of Keres (electronic attack ship))
Breacher (T1 version of Hound (another bomber)).

Notice that all the T1 speedy frigates were made interceptors, the T1 missile frigates (for the most part) made stealth bombers, and the hardiest of each races T1 frigates made into assault ships.

Are we seeing some similarities here? Good. Now go away and gather yourself a the similar frigates from each race and try again.

If all you came here for is to ask for a tech 2 inquisitor, then grab yourself a Purifier and be happy. If, alternatively, you want an interceptor that goes fast. Well, grab yourself an interceptor :| each race already has two variations.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#3 - 2012-02-09 03:46:01 UTC
how about ccp just fixes EAFs

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.

Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-02-09 03:55:33 UTC
Batelle wrote:
how about ccp just fixes EAFs



this really.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right

Wyte Ragnarok
#5 - 2012-02-09 11:34:12 UTC
Batelle wrote:
how about ccp just fixes EAFs


This is now OP. We now have a real thread. Now, getting back on topic...

Also, +1 to the fix EAF argument. Although, I hasten to add I'm not overly sure how they would. I've heard a lot about sensor damps being underwhelming on an Arazu/Lachesis (and so I assume the same goes for the Keres) and people have proposed increasing their bonus towards damps.

But how would you go around fixing EAFs? That's my question to Ships & Modules.
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-02-09 11:48:59 UTC
Wyte Ragnarok wrote:
But how would you go around fixing EAFs? That's my question to Ships & Modules.


sig reduction, bit more EHP, bit more speed, increased capacitor, perhaps reduction on build costs.

some bonuses, like the keres ones, need to be reworked, since the keres is either too expensive to be fielded as a mini-dampner platform (celestis does the same thing for a fraction of price), or using an ares as a long range tackler is cheaper and more survivable.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right

vorneus
Hub2
#7 - 2012-02-09 13:47:29 UTC
Grimpak wrote:
Wyte Ragnarok wrote:
But how would you go around fixing EAFs? That's my question to Ships & Modules.


sig reduction, bit more EHP, bit more speed, increased capacitor, perhaps reduction on build costs.

some bonuses, like the keres ones, need to be reworked, since the keres is either too expensive to be fielded as a mini-dampner platform (celestis does the same thing for a fraction of price), or using an ares as a long range tackler is cheaper and more survivable.


Indeed.

EAF's are in dire need of an overhaul. As Grimpak said, they need more survivability (whether its in the form of sig reduction, more EHP, more speed, etc.) and are far too expensive to build for how useful they are.

I'll add lacklustre grid/CPU to the list along with capacitor problems. Hell, half of them can't even perform their intended role well at range without capping out, and nobody wants to waste a mid on a micro sized booster :\

-Ed

This one time, I like, totally did some stuff.

Darrow Hill
Vodka and Vice
#8 - 2012-02-09 13:59:10 UTC
Why hasn't the new crow model been activated?

X
Ryder 3vyn
Doomheim
#9 - 2012-02-09 15:34:08 UTC
The Electronic Attack Ships should be the frigate sized equivalent of the Recon Ship class in my opinion.

You get the Ewar dedicated ones which are pretty good at combat (five drones for the Sentinel please, more DPS and some missiles for the Hyena, as well as general boosts in sig, ehp, and a reworking of some of their bonuses, etc) and then another version of them designed for cloaky / espionage, they would be less good at straight up combat, more specialized, but easier to take around solo and kill noob ratters in, and more survivable because of the cloaking ability.

That's my vision of EASs. I'm sure CCP will come up with something better though... maybe P.
Wyte Ragnarok
#10 - 2012-02-09 19:56:52 UTC
That's a point! The Sentinel can't even use 5 drones! I always thought it could... It's cap recharge bonus should really be a drone bonus to be more in line with the Curse. Then ofcourse it needs its cap sorting out anyway. And sig reduction, AB + those bonus'd tracking disruptors would be entertaining against some ships :P can't really speak for any of the others to tell you the truth.

What you mentioned about potentially having a covert ops version and a more combat orientated version of the EAFs seems good. Just like their bigger cousins; the recons. I like that idea quite a lot.

Now OP, do we see how we make a thread now? Come here with something to discuss and something that has potential and people will like it. "Gief moar ships because I need to cross train moar" does not make a thread.
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#11 - 2012-02-09 20:03:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington
Darrow Hill wrote:
Why hasn't the new crow model been activated?

X


The server needs to be upgraded first, they tried introducing the new Crow model but the awesome was too much for the current hardware.

Quote:
That's a point! The Sentinel can't even use 5 drones! I always thought it could... It's cap recharge bonus should really be a drone bonus to be more in line with the Curse. Then ofcourse it needs its cap sorting out anyway. And sig reduction, AB + those bonus'd tracking disruptors would be entertaining against some ships :P can't really speak for any of the others to tell you the truth.


The Sentinel works just fine as it is...
As for the others:
Hyena - needs better web range
Keres - is pretty much fine
Kitsune - needs a bit more lock range, otherwise fine

All of them need a sig radius reduction.
Marcus Henik
Rules of Acquisition
#12 - 2012-02-10 03:17:41 UTC
More bandwidth for the sentinal, more grid/CPU in general. Or 50% reduction in required build materials. Make them cheaper.
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#13 - 2012-02-10 04:04:04 UTC
Grimpak wrote:
Wyte Ragnarok wrote:
But how would you go around fixing EAFs? That's my question to Ships & Modules.


sig reduction, bit more EHP, bit more speed, increased capacitor, perhaps reduction on build costs.

some bonuses, like the keres ones, need to be reworked, since the keres is either too expensive to be fielded as a mini-dampner platform (celestis does the same thing for a fraction of price), or using an ares as a long range tackler is cheaper and more survivable.

Keres is like twice as fast, which kinda is the whole point in choosing smaller tech2 over bigger tech1.

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.

Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#14 - 2012-02-10 14:47:44 UTC
Fon Revedhort wrote:
some bonuses, like the keres ones, need to be reworked, since the keres is either too expensive to be fielded as a mini-dampner platform (celestis does the same thing for a fraction of price), or using an ares as a long range tackler is cheaper and more survivable.



Biggest issue with Keres is that the Ares is a better tackler in every way. If you go the damp route, you're screwed by the fact that a) EAFs as a class suck, and b) Damps, as an ewar system suck.

The ships aren't good enough to merit fitting meta4 damps, which are quite expensive, and you need at least 3 if the damp route is your focus. Without the meta4 though, your frigate sized cpu and capacitor end up REALLY REALLY hurting. Also i feel you need a sig amp to take advantage of the damps. All the eafs could use bonuses to speed, ehp, dps, etc. But what the keres really needs is a role bonus for damp capacitor use.

As for the effectiveness of damps themselves, most people agree an acceptable way to buff them would be to increase the bonus on the ships that use them to 7.5% or 10% per level.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.

e eek'd
Native Freshfood
#15 - 2012-02-10 19:21:58 UTC  |  Edited by: e eek'd
Duchess Starbuckington wrote:
Darrow Hill wrote:
Why hasn't the new crow model been activated?

X


The server needs to be upgraded first, they tried introducing the new Crow model but the awesome was too much for the current hardware.

Quote:
That's a point! The Sentinel can't even use 5 drones! I always thought it could... It's cap recharge bonus should really be a drone bonus to be more in line with the Curse. Then ofcourse it needs its cap sorting out anyway. And sig reduction, AB + those bonus'd tracking disruptors would be entertaining against some ships :P can't really speak for any of the others to tell you the truth.


The Sentinel works just fine as it is...
As for the others:
Hyena - needs better web range
Keres - is pretty much fine
Kitsune - needs a bit more lock range, otherwise fine

All of them need a sig radius reduction.


The sentinel need its neut range cut
Hyena is fine as a mini rapier
Keres needs a new module bonus, or scan res bonus
kitsune yea moar range more agility
Something Random
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2012-02-10 21:42:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Something Random
.

"caught on fire a little bit, just a little."

"Delinquents, check, weirdos, check, hippies, check, pillheads, check, freaks, check, potheads, check .....gangs all here!"

I love Science, it gives me a Hadron.

mxzf
Shovel Bros
#17 - 2012-02-11 02:18:04 UTC
Something Random wrote:
i want


Never a valid reason for a proposal. /thread
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-02-11 02:33:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Grimpak
Fon Revedhort wrote:
Grimpak wrote:
Wyte Ragnarok wrote:
But how would you go around fixing EAFs? That's my question to Ships & Modules.


sig reduction, bit more EHP, bit more speed, increased capacitor, perhaps reduction on build costs.

some bonuses, like the keres ones, need to be reworked, since the keres is either too expensive to be fielded as a mini-dampner platform (celestis does the same thing for a fraction of price), or using an ares as a long range tackler is cheaper and more survivable.

Keres is like twice as fast, which kinda is the whole point in choosing smaller tech2 over bigger tech1.




actually no. Keres is 200m/sec faster than the maulus, and the ares is 1km/sec faster than the keres. and that's only with a mwd fitted, and no other kind of speed mods.
There's currently an overlap in roles when it comes to the keres. The ares has half the bonus, but is a hell lot cheaper, has a smaller sig rad., and can do circles around your keres all day long. Keres struggles to do it's role since it has to decide between better cap stability or tank, specially when the ares can dedicate a good amount of the lowslots to speed, making it twice as fast as the keres, which, btw, has nearly half as much as the ares' EHP, nevermind the fact that the celestis, the next biggest thing, has nearly 4 times the keres' EHP (and costs like 6x less)

and when you throw damps into the equation, considering price-performance ratios, the maulus does exactly the same thing as the keres with the added bonus of actually being able to shoot back.



oh and another silly thing: maulus has more CPU than the keres, however it has 2 less medslots.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right

Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#19 - 2012-02-11 02:54:20 UTC
Batelle wrote:

As for the effectiveness of damps themselves, most people agree an acceptable way to buff them would be to increase the bonus on the ships that use them to 7.5% or 10% per level.

Most people have no clue then. I remember pretty well how a single RSD on Arazu had a strength of -75%. That was insane and we don't want to see that again.

I for one don't get the idea of rendering an opposing ship totally useless. What's the fun in it?

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.

Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2012-02-11 03:04:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Grimpak
Fon Revedhort wrote:
Batelle wrote:

As for the effectiveness of damps themselves, most people agree an acceptable way to buff them would be to increase the bonus on the ships that use them to 7.5% or 10% per level.

Most people have no clue then. I remember pretty well how a single RSD on Arazu had a strength of -75%. That was insane and we don't want to see that again.

I for one don't get the idea of rendering an opposing ship totally useless. What's the fun in it?


what?

it was actually quite fine on the damp boats. the main problem damps had was the fact that everybody, their cat and their mother had one or two fitted. So CCP nerfed damps, but totally forgot that there were ships out there that had damp bonuses and didn't touched on them (unlike what they did when they nerfed jammer STR, but boosted the ECM str bonus on ECM boats to compensate).


also, changing the bonus to 7.5% won't bring the damps of old since they were triple-nerfed back then: nerfed in strenght, effectiveness (scripts) and got their rigs nerfed too.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right

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