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Introducing ... Corporation Management 2.0

Author
Jack Paladin
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1 - 2012-02-09 10:55:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Paladin
Please read the following post which is the prelude to these ideas. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=735701#post735701

CCP Spitfire wrote:
I've read this thread, although not exactly because of the title. Smile Thread cleaned of offtopic posts; please keep it civil. I agree that the corporation management system could use some love (putting it mildly) and would be happy to hear your ideas and suggestions and pass them along to the dev team.


Thanks for the response.

As many have stated in this thread (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=735701#post735701), you cannot please everyone. It’s hard enough trying to keep 50 pilots happy, CCP have to deal with some 500,000 pilots to keep happy. The sooner that you can resign yourself to the fact that you cannot make everyone happy, the easier it is to do your job. Atleast this is my point of view. Whatever you do, someone well be affected negatively and will likely get their back up over it. It is a critical balance of being a good leader by making logical, informed decisions, and being a total douche by trying to dictate to your members how they should be playing the game. Dictatorship is bad mmkay.

Onto my suggestions.

Every corporation is different so once again, whatever system is implemented is not necessarily going to work for everyone …. Which is why they should have the option of choosing to use it or use their own besoke/taylor made systems. This will not work for all elements of EVE for obvious reasons, but something like corporation management, I think it could work well!
One thing I must stress is that EVE members hate having stuff forced onto them. If any of these ideas do get implemented, I would propose you have it in a modular system. A simple check box in corporation management that the CEO can control. If he wants one of these systems enabled for his corp, he has control to enable/disable it.

Let’s take a look at some of the more common systems that a corporation will most likely use/require. I will expand on each point and try to keep it short and sweet.

• Website/Forums (API Enabled Authentication)
• Killboard (Specific to PVP perhaps?)
• Ship Replacement Program (Specific to PVP perhaps?)
• Recruitment Form (often including API fields)
• Leadership Team Diagram/Chart
• Member Management
• Private Communication Channels/Mailing Lists
• Voice Comms
• Corp/Alliance only market
Jack Paladin
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2012-02-09 10:55:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Paladin
Website/Forums (API Enabled Authentication)
Almost every major corporation out there will have forums in which their members can relax and discuss things outside of EVE. Given the nature of EVE and the ever increasing meta-gaming aspect of it, corporations now have to take steps to try and prevent unwanted members registering on the board and seeing all their info. Along came the API Authentication mods for the various board systems (PHPBB / SMF / Vbulletin etc). Custom made mods that do an OK job of carrying out the necessary security checks. From my experience, a hassle to setup, a hassle to maintain and a horrible waste of time that could be spent in-game blowing up ships.

CCP have already taken the first steps into making this process a whole lot easier by given corporations their own forums on EVE-O. Access is controlled by in-game titles, exactly the way it should be. It is a good starting point and given that this feature is still in its early stages of development, I am confident it will be developed further so that corporations can modify their corp forums according to their needs, and not just a blanket template given by CCP. One critical feature I would love to see added sooner rather than later is the ability for CEO’s to add their own categories to the forums (you will probably have to limit this to say 10-15 categories per corp forum?)

For most corporations, forums on their own will be fine, but what about the others that want something a bit more than just forums? Some sites have made good use of the API system to implement certain features into their own bespoke sites such as server status, corp member tracking etc. I would love to see a solution from CCP that integrates all of the API features into you own corp portal. Think of it as a corporation portal that contains vital information about the corporation. A modular based system is most definitely the best way to go. Let the players choose what they want shown. Can also be applied at the alliance level.

Killboard
An essential part of any corporation involved in PVP. EVSCO (http://evsco.net/) already do a fantastic job in making it very easy for a corporation to setup a killboard for their corporation. I would like to see this integrated into the corporation section though, at the very least, expand on your own combat log/kill mail system to sparse the mails into the corporation window under a separate tab. Add some abilities to search the killmails, sort by date/time/system/ship etc etc. Nothing major and should be fairly easy to implement. Not looking for a replacement for the killboards already available to us, but just an expansion of the in-game combat log system from a corporation level. Can also be applied at the alliance level.

Ship Replacement Program
Again, another essential part of any corporation involved in PVP. Some alliances do this at the alliance level, although I can’t even imagine trying to do this for some 2000-3000 pilots. Leading on from the idea above about killboards. Incorporate an SRP tab into the corp management that is linked to the combat log area of your character sheet. Similar sorta layout with the jump clones window. Add buttons next to your losses to ‘Apply for Replacement’. Once clicked, the request is sent to the corp, the SRP officer reviews it and can ‘Approve/Deny’ as they see fit. All SRP requests are managed from within the corp management window. This will help streamline the SRP system for corporations making it a whole lot easier to offer this valuable service to your PVPers. Can also be applied at the alliance level.

Recruitment Form (often including API fields)
The current method of joining a corp is very outdated given how much more involved the recruitment process has become. All that the current system does is tell a CEO/Director when a member applies. For the much smaller ‘fun’ corps this is probably adequate. For the more serious corps you need something with a bit more detail. Example of my recruitment form (http://www.eve-solst.net/index.php?action=form;n=1). I expect these sort of questions are asked a lot by other corporations wanting to recruit serious players. We all want to make sure we know what we are getting from a member. I suggest implementing an internal recruitment form that collects more information about a pilot making good use of the character sheet. Incorporate information from the skillsheet into the corp app. Obviously nothing that could be considered a breach of privacy, just basic info such as sec status, corp history, skillpoints etc. Basic but useful information that every recruiter will need to know. I was thinking maybe allow the corp to customise the recruitment form with say, 10-15 custom fields of their choice. Can also be applied at the alliance level.

Leadership Team Diagram/Chart
Simple, self-explanatory and easy to implement. Carry out a query on the corp and post the results in a tab under the corporation window (with a bit of formatting) . This will show the current leadership team of the corporation without having to post it in corp bulletins, mails, forums etc etc. Can also be applied at the alliance level.
Jack Paladin
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2012-02-09 10:55:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Paladin
Private Communication Channels/Mailing Lists
Everyone will have their own private channels and mailing lists. From an individual perspective, the current system works. From a corporation perspective, it needs a little more work. E.g. You have a custom mailing list setup for corporation/alliance only contracts. You then need get everyone to try and join it. I propose to implement a mailing list management system that allows directors/ceos to control the mailing lists for the corporation. When a member joined, they are automatically joined to the relevant mailing lists based on their current title. Same can be applied to channels also? Automate the process to make it less stressful for those running the show! Can also be applied at the alliance level.

Voice Comms
Same story, different area. More access over the current voice system. Custom Channels, Access based on titles/roles. Think TS/Mumble layout, except using EVE-Voice. Perhaps a lower priority than the other suggestions as many will want access to voice outside of the game. Guess that is where EVE Gate comes in then?

Corp/Alliance only market
This, would be, EPIC. Has been suggested many times before. Only way to do this at the moment is through contracts and I believe you are limited to 51 contracts per toon? Creating contracts is long and tedious, especially if you are providing supplies to you entire alliance. You can set contracts for corp/alliance only, so why not do it for the market also?
Jack Paladin
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2012-02-09 10:55:58 UTC
Reserved
Herold Oldtimer
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-02-09 12:04:54 UTC
This is awesome. Optional or not, a lot of these ideas would make running corps/alliances a whole lot easier. The only thing I have to say about this would be for the corp/alliance makert. While it would indeed be epic, I have a feeling that making something like that work would mean to make a whole new system from the groundup. And I fear that can take a lond time.

But maybe that can be taken as an iniative to make the marked more flexible too, with the new neocom it leaves something to be desired.

+1 for you sir
Jack Paladin
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6 - 2012-02-09 12:08:52 UTC
Herold Oldtimer wrote:
This is awesome. Optional or not, a lot of these ideas would make running corps/alliances a whole lot easier. The only thing I have to say about this would be for the corp/alliance makert. While it would indeed be epic, I have a feeling that making something like that work would mean to make a whole new system from the groundup. And I fear that can take a lond time.

But maybe that can be taken as an iniative to make the marked more flexible too, with the new neocom it leaves something to be desired.

+1 for you sir


Thankyou for those kind words.

Hmm, yes I can see your point, but they have recently added in the filtering system for the market orders, so perhaps not so hard to adapt the existing market system to introduce a corp only market? I guess only CCP knows such things! :)
Carmizan
Lords of Maelstrom
#7 - 2012-02-09 12:33:59 UTC
Having run a corp in my time i agree that these measures would make a corp easier to run.

Having seen Herold's comments on the market I was wondering have you thought about rather a market for corp/alliance why not have a discount system added to the present market were and preset percentage discount would be paid by a member.

These discounts would be set by either the CEO or director and any order placed on the market the seller could tick the option for these discounts, this option can also be set as always on or off by the CEO or Directors when the discounts are set.

This could be an easy control like the only used in Customer offices and could even go as far as blues, but that could be a stage too far.
Jack Paladin
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#8 - 2012-02-09 12:42:56 UTC
Carmizan wrote:
Having run a corp in my time i agree that these measures would make a corp easier to run.

Having seen Herold's comments on the market I was wondering have you thought about rather a market for corp/alliance why not have a discount system added to the present market were and preset percentage discount would be paid by a member.

These discounts would be set by either the CEO or director and any order placed on the market the seller could tick the option for these discounts, this option can also be set as always on or off by the CEO or Directors when the discounts are set.

This could be an easy control like the only used in Customer offices and could even go as far as blues, but that could be a stage too far.


Not a bad idea except you may not want your supplies being bought out by the enemy. Economic warfare often leads to all corp/alliance supplies being kept on contracts as to prevent hostiles from buying out all your supplies or inflating the prices. It could work on a certain level, but I expect most 0.0 alliances won't have a use for it.

Another alternative is to perhaps rework the current corporation/alliance contracts system to make it easier to use? By easier I mean less steps, less clicks.
Carmizan
Lords of Maelstrom
#9 - 2012-02-09 12:59:25 UTC
Jack Paladin wrote:
Carmizan wrote:
Having run a corp in my time i agree that these measures would make a corp easier to run.

Having seen Herold's comments on the market I was wondering have you thought about rather a market for corp/alliance why not have a discount system added to the present market were and preset percentage discount would be paid by a member.

These discounts would be set by either the CEO or director and any order placed on the market the seller could tick the option for these discounts, this option can also be set as always on or off by the CEO or Directors when the discounts are set.

This could be an easy control like the only used in Customer offices and could even go as far as blues, but that could be a stage too far.


Not a bad idea except you may not want your supplies being bought out by the enemy. Economic warfare often leads to all corp/alliance supplies being kept on contracts as to prevent hostiles from buying out all your supplies or inflating the prices. It could work on a certain level, but I expect most 0.0 alliances won't have a use for it.

Another alternative is to perhaps rework the current corporation/alliance contracts system to make it easier to use? By easier I mean less steps, less clicks.


Agree on not wanting to supply your enemies but on the flip side to that in 0.0 could lead to the tactic of braking the enemy's bank balance by over inflating the prices in the market while keeping the price low for your own side. A ploy done now in some systems using the market and contract system.

But i do agree the contract system is too long winded for set corp orders.
Jack Paladin
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#10 - 2012-02-09 13:12:53 UTC
Carmizan wrote:

Agree on not wanting to supply your enemies but on the flip side to that in 0.0 could lead to the tactic of braking the enemy's bank balance by over inflating the prices in the market while keeping the price low for your own side. A ploy done now in some systems using the market and contract system.

But i do agree the contract system is too long winded for set corp orders.


That is a good point. The corp/market idea is a nice prospect but, it might have quite a big impact on 0.0 economic warfare ... both positive and negative. Perhaps we look further into streamlining the current contracts system? I think it will likely be easier to implement also.
Herold Oldtimer
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-02-09 13:23:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Herold Oldtimer
Hm, might not be so dificult after all no.

When you make a sell order you can check on a box if it should be for everyone or current corp/alliance only, and then add a corp/alliance filter in the filter option. Yes, could work Smile

something like this

Edit: you two advanced too fast for me. This is for market not contract
Jack Paladin
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#12 - 2012-02-09 13:26:10 UTC
Herold Oldtimer wrote:
Hm, might not be so dificult after all no.

When you make a sell order you can check on a box if it should be for everyone or current corp/alliance only, and then add a corp/alliance filter in the filter option. Yes, could work Smile

something like this


Exactly what I was thinking!
Fire Stone
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-02-10 01:16:37 UTC
I just want to be able to have all members build using corp slots to locked down corp bpo and only be able to deliver their slots, not every slot for everyone for the entire corporation.

On a side note would be a bonus to go back to the bugged hangers that you could build from having read only access. That was a great security measure.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#14 - 2012-02-10 01:51:05 UTC
There are some of those that I do agree with that sound like good ideas. However, I believe you have some stuff on there that shouldn't necessarily be CCP's responsibility, instead it should be the corp's responsibility. Namely: Website/forums, killboard, replacement program, and voice comms. (though I do think that having a very small corp forum on this site will be great for smaller corps who don't need much forum space)

Here's why I don't think CCP should be working on those things: because the players can do them. Yes, it might be slightly more work for us (and I'm speaking as the main programmer and IT guy among my circle of friends in Eve), but I would vastly prefer to do the work myself instead of making CCP spend developer time on it. We shouldn't be taking dev time away from serious matters to work on convenience things that we can do ourselves, that's why the APIs are there in the first place, so we can do whatever we want with them.
Serge Bastana
GWA Corp
#15 - 2012-02-10 03:05:35 UTC
The ability to assign access to each corp hangar and facility on an individual basis instead of the HQ/Based at/Other system that we have now which is far from ideal would be a great boost and allow for much more specific selection of access rights for each member.

The corp market and ship replacement would be such a boon too.

WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place...

Jack Paladin
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#16 - 2012-02-10 11:10:07 UTC
Keep the ideas coming, alot of good feedback!
Serge Bastana
GWA Corp
#17 - 2012-02-10 11:32:08 UTC
The access to pos labs should maybe be decoupled from corp hangar access rights too, I recently had to do a fair bit of juggling around with the roles and corp hangar access to allow a fairly new member of the corp to be able to install a research job in a pos lab as the only way to be able to do that is have Hangar Access (Other). This meant having to change HQs so that BPO's were protected from being taken due to the rather clumsy roles management. I could have locked the blueprints down but that's a real PITA, so a little more flexibility with all access rights and roles would help any size corp protect assets without preventing those who wish to make themselves useful from being able to use lab resources.

WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place...

Serge Bastana
GWA Corp
#18 - 2012-02-11 11:54:40 UTC
And a bump for a good thread

WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place...

Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-02-11 14:56:07 UTC
Very good ideas here, I got thrown into director position in my first couple of weeks playing Eve. Needless to say I spent more time learning the corporation management system than I did learning game mechanics. They need to be simplified and streamlined to be more user friendly.

MMOs come and go, but Eve remains.  -Garresh-

Jack Paladin
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#20 - 2012-02-12 11:35:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Paladin
Gerrick Palivorn wrote:
Very good ideas here, I got thrown into director position in my first couple of weeks playing Eve. Needless to say I spent more time learning the corporation management system than I did learning game mechanics. They need to be simplified and streamlined to be more user friendly.


There have been some suggestions here for industry also. Being an 'all in' pilot I too have experienced the gripes of trying to run industry operations and having to deal with permissions/writes etc. It can be a huge pain!

Just recently I had a pilot join his corp to my alliance so he could use my labs. Unfortunately, he can only use the labs for researching his BPO's. He cannot use the copy slots. Why can't he use all available resources? Perhaps have a dedicated hangar for alliances in POS's that are set to allow alliance usage. Or perhaps create a new POS module (Alliance Hangar Array) that the CEO/Director of the corp can anchor in the POS and then use that to store all his resources/bp's etc.

Which brings me onto my third gripe.

LINK THE CORPORATE HANGAR ARRAY TO LABS.

Has been mentioned before, never got a real answer. We can link silo's to reactors etc, surely its not that difficult to do the same for the CHA? If a lab/array is linked to the CHA in the POS it will override the local storage on said lab/array. All materials and resources are taken direct from the hangars in the CHA.

Please keep this thread alive, post your thoughts and LIKE it!
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