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Quick ECM fix
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Galphii
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-02-08 09:26:53 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
Reducing ECM cycle time would only make them better. In the same 20 seconds with current cycle time, you get one chance per jammer. With a 10 second cycle time you would get 2 chances, that is twice as many opportunities. Now say I'm in my Falcon with a 14 jam strength trying to jam a Drake (19 sensor strength). Currently I have a 26% chance to miss. With your solution, the chance of missing a jam within the same 20 seconds with that same jammer would be 7%.

I wold gladly give up my 20sec jam cycles for this, and then go fit a single remote sensor damp w/scan res script. Or, God forbid, fly with a bro in an Arazu that has lots of damps fit. Even when you finally lock, you can't keep it or more than a few seconds. Hell, this would even make multispecs useful.

For fun, lets try the mathz. 4x multispecs jam str ~9.3, cycle time of 10 seconds. Chance to miss vs Drake per cycle is 1-(9.3/19)=51%. Stagger the jammers so one fires every 2.5 seconds over the course of the previous time of 20 seconds means 8 attempts every 20 seconds (love the new cycle time). 51%^8=.46% chance to miss. Over the course of the 10 seconds required to fire all jammers once the chance to miss would be 6.8%.

OP is now my favorite person in the whole Eve Online universe.

Except that you missed the bit where you don't get the 20 second jam time anymore; they'll work more like ecm bursts, so you'll be breaking locks but 'ceptors with sensor boosters will still be hassling you. I love how almost no-one on these forums actually reads posts. Comedy gold!

"Wow, that internet argument completely changed my fundamental belief system," said no one, ever.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#22 - 2012-02-08 10:30:53 UTC
Galphii wrote:
Soldarius wrote:
Reducing ECM cycle time would only make them better. In the same 20 seconds with current cycle time, you get one chance per jammer. With a 10 second cycle time you would get 2 chances, that is twice as many opportunities. Now say I'm in my Falcon with a 14 jam strength trying to jam a Drake (19 sensor strength). Currently I have a 26% chance to miss. With your solution, the chance of missing a jam within the same 20 seconds with that same jammer would be 7%.

I wold gladly give up my 20sec jam cycles for this, and then go fit a single remote sensor damp w/scan res script. Or, God forbid, fly with a bro in an Arazu that has lots of damps fit. Even when you finally lock, you can't keep it or more than a few seconds. Hell, this would even make multispecs useful.

For fun, lets try the mathz. 4x multispecs jam str ~9.3, cycle time of 10 seconds. Chance to miss vs Drake per cycle is 1-(9.3/19)=51%. Stagger the jammers so one fires every 2.5 seconds over the course of the previous time of 20 seconds means 8 attempts every 20 seconds (love the new cycle time). 51%^8=.46% chance to miss. Over the course of the 10 seconds required to fire all jammers once the chance to miss would be 6.8%.

OP is now my favorite person in the whole Eve Online universe.

Except that you missed the bit where you don't get the 20 second jam time anymore; they'll work more like ecm bursts, so you'll be breaking locks but 'ceptors with sensor boosters will still be hassling you. I love how almost no-one on these forums actually reads posts. Comedy gold!


wtf with forums eating my posts not once but twice in 10 minutes.

Reading comprehension is obviously not your strong point. So let me explain it so you can understand. If you decrease the cycle time on a jammer, even if it only breaks locks, a Falcon with 4 multispecs would have a 99.54% chance of breaking your locks at least once every 20 seconds; 93.21% chance every 10 seconds vs a Drake. This is why the ECM Burst module can only fire every 30 seconds, and you can only fit one of them at a time.

Say the Falcon is rainbow racial fit, which is the fleet support standard. That one 14 strength jammer would still have a 74% chance of breaking your Drake's locks on the first try. The cumulative chance on the second try would be 94%.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Galphii
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#23 - 2012-02-08 11:04:11 UTC
Math isn't my strong point so I'm not going to get into a nerd pissing-match; I'll take your word on the numbers. My numbers aren't set in stone; they're an example of how the system could work. I've modified my OP to reflect a better way of doing this change. Breaking a lock once every 20 seconds is hardly arguing my point, and as many have pointed out in this thread it's underpowered. In a 20 second time frame, the drake will lose its lock once and then can easily reacquire and fire off more missiles etc.

And yeah the forums eat posts for breakfast Sad

"Wow, that internet argument completely changed my fundamental belief system," said no one, ever.
Valei Khurelem
#24 - 2012-02-08 11:11:17 UTC
You are so going to get trolled for daring to suggest ECM doesn't work properly and I won't be able to do anything to help, sorry :( ECM needs fixing, but it's the counters that fight against gankers that need fixing the most because things like warp bubbles are just so OP.

"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP."   - CCP Ytterbium
Galphii
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-02-08 11:30:59 UTC
Valei Khurelem wrote:
You are so going to get trolled for daring to suggest ECM doesn't work properly and I won't be able to do anything to help, sorry :( ECM needs fixing, but it's the counters that fight against gankers that need fixing the most because things like warp bubbles are just so OP.

I was expecting it hehe. I knew CCP were talking about the pros and cons of ecm so I thought I'd put this idea into the mix (it was actually a mate of mine who suggested it, cheers 2myst!)

"Wow, that internet argument completely changed my fundamental belief system," said no one, ever.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#26 - 2012-02-08 11:32:35 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
This is why the ECM Burst module can only fire every 30 seconds, and you can only fit one of them at a time.


There's also that minor issue that ECM burst affects everyone in your radius of effect, regardless of whether you can target them or not.

ECM cycling every 10 seconds and simply breaking one/all locks would be fine: at the very worst it would be no worse than current ECM mechanics. 10 seconds is long enough for HACs to target a Rook or Falcon and fire a salvo. If ECM only broke one lock at a time it would be nice to reduce the cycle time to a few seconds.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2012-02-09 00:10:32 UTC
No other E-War is as crippling as ECM. Other E-War mods all debilitate ships, but non of them make ships completely useless. There is nothing more boring then being in a fight and not even getting a single shot off.

At the VERY ABSOLUTE LEAST ECCM should be far more effective. I quite like the OP idea, but I prefer the idea of ECM only jamming SOME of your weapons, not all of them. This would be more inline with how the effectiveness of other E-War is graduated. This way it would take several ECMs to jam a ship completely.

ECM is too powerful and it makes gameplay very boring, and many ships lose significant strength having to compensate with ECCM which barely has an effect.

[URL="https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=82348"]UI Iteration isn't enough, we need to start from scratch[/URL]
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#28 - 2012-02-09 00:18:52 UTC
Equip ECCM or suffer.
Bubanni
Game of Drones
The Initiative.
#29 - 2012-03-22 17:23:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Bubanni
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
Equip ECCM or suffer.


ADAPT! use ECM + Sensor damp...

I like the idea of reducing duration of a jam cycle... I would even agree a compromise would be fine too, 5-10 sec cycle could be okay too

But for people fearing a loss in regards to their beloved OP ecm... bring some remote sensor dampening and you would suddenly get same result or even better

a sensor damp ship can make 1000 scan res become 180-200ish scan res... to lock a frig from 2 to 11-12 sec

(or on a hurricane trying to lock a hurricane from 3.8 sec to 21.7 sec (without microwarp on, and down to 13 sec with microwarp on)

Why should one kind of ewar be so strong by itself? I think they should be used in synergy to be "powerful"

should mention the sensor damp should be scripted for scan res dampening

Lets say that CCP did nerf ecm to only break lock for a much shorter time, but decreased the cycle time and cap usage of the module (so rolling the dice to jam more often) which would result in more jams but for basicly no time... together with sensor damps ECM would become much much more powerful than before as targets would take forever to lock new targets and would keep trying again and again

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Abeer
BeerCaps
#30 - 2012-03-22 17:51:30 UTC
i disagree that ecm would be stronger if you reduce the cycle lets say from 20sec to 15sec but you just break the lock and dont jam for 20sec.

atm you can do the same with sensor damp anyway.. if a target is jammed for 20sec tell your dampener to damp him and you make 40sec out of it. but if you take away the 20sec jam also the dampener would have harder times to get his damps on the
broken lock.

and also the jam drones ( i think all e-war drones should be removed because they are to cheap and can be brought always on the field ) would been much less effective... and tbh everyone fits ec-300.. they are so cheap and still so effective in low sec where you cannot smartbomb them. 10-15 of them really jams carriers out for a certain time of a fight.

i saw boosted guardians not getting 1 lock in a 10min fight with a strenght over 60 just by having 30 ecm drones around it.
and now you wanna tell me thats balanced. how you want to break that in low sec ?? shooting every drone, one after one ??

and how do you feel if you jammed out the whole fight ?? are you happy and still telling it was a good fight after you lost your ship while never got a lock on any target ? i doubt that hardly.. and i doubt that when you get ganked by 3 cheap ishkur in an expensive ship and they only spam ecm drones at you.. i truly would rage if that would happen to me. because without the ecm drones you would win and it would match.. if they want fit a slot with td or damps or even an ecm you would give them the win because they had a good ship setup .. but not by just stupid drones.

Cheers
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