These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Assembly Hall

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[PROPOSAL] - a review of the current suicide gank mechanics within high-sec
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
GetSirrus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2012-01-27 00:40:55 UTC
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=577

I located this somewhat historial blog, but found it interesting reading.

In the past CCP has formed a takforce (Doughnut) reviewing suicide ganking. I call for this taskforce to be formed again. There are many on-going posts on these forums which currently posit that suicide ganking is too easy. Perhaps some reassurance from CCP that the current system is "working as intended" would go a long way to address these concerns enmass.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-01-27 01:44:15 UTC
Considering the first taskforce obviously didn't do anything, I have serious doubts that a second one will. But...can't hurt...

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Lady Starfire
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-01-28 18:00:34 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Phantom
GETSIRRUS THEY STOPPED PAYING INSURANCE TO THE EVIL SUICIDE GANKERS SO THAT THEY LOSE THE VALUE OF THE SHIP!

Edit: Off topic part removed, CCP Phantom
Shazzam Vokanavom
Doomheim
#4 - 2012-02-03 17:06:58 UTC
Lady Starfire wrote:
GETSIRRUS THEY STOPPED PAYING INSURANCE TO THE EVIL SUICIDE GANKERS SO THAT THEY LOSE THE VALUE OF THE SHIP!

Edit: Off topic part removed, CCP Phantom


The isnurance loss is a pittance in terms of potential profits afforeded to this exercise, and were pre-determind not to have a n impact on the activity.

CCP also added significant new additions to improve the Suicide ganking profession at the same time. Dessie improvements and a new tier 3 BC with a large alpha platform much cheaper than BS.

Some people are now reporting the capability of earning a plex in an afternoon as a result of the new BC.

This whilst they can easily avoid conflict resulting from their criminal activity with a broken bounty system and activites such as corp hopping, dropping from war mechanics or simply using NPC corps. As such there is little retribution to the act of criminal activities.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#5 - 2012-02-03 17:55:34 UTC
devblog from 2008.08.06

CONCORD wasn't so powerful prior to that. Though personally, I think they should be ramped down to 2005 levels (or whenever it was that m0o locked down the trade lanes...)

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
King Rothgar
Deadly Solutions
#6 - 2012-02-03 18:48:59 UTC
Currently you lose the full hull value of the ship, you have about 5-10s to kill your target (less if you are an outlaw and get the navy spawn), it obliterates your sec status (assuming they don't shoot back) and they get kill rights on you. How exactly do you propose making suicide gankers suffer more without completely deleting it from the game?

TBH suicide gankers have it pretty rough atm. I suggest you stop making yourself such a juicy target since CCP can't nerf them any more than they already have without deleting that aspect of the game entirely.

[u]Fireworks and snowballs are great, but what I really want is a corpse launcher.[/u]
The Mittani
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-02-03 20:10:54 UTC
people whining about suicide ganking should get ganked more until they learn to enjoy it

~hi~
Xuzi
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2012-02-05 01:21:52 UTC
King Rothgar wrote:
Currently you lose the full hull value of the ship, you have about 5-10s to kill your target (less if you are an outlaw and get the navy spawn), it obliterates your sec status (assuming they don't shoot back) and they get kill rights on you. How exactly do you propose making suicide gankers suffer more without completely deleting it from the game?

TBH suicide gankers have it pretty rough atm. I suggest you stop making yourself such a juicy target since CCP can't nerf them any more than they already have without deleting that aspect of the game entirely.


A few things to consider however:

1) value of gank ship: with the boost given to destroyers, they have become even more efficient gank machines. Cost of these is pretty much nothing.

2) sec status: with some support, -10 sec status isn't that much of a penalty for those who understand how to do it

I'm all for ganking, but its a lot easier than you claim.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#9 - 2012-02-05 03:11:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
The Mittani wrote:
people whining about suicide ganking should get ganked more until they learn to enjoy it

They will become masochists though the power of repeated application of explosion to ship?

...

Who are we kidding, it won't end until all ships in hisec with sec status >0 are simply invulnerable like a station in a system with sov.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#10 - 2012-02-07 18:49:42 UTC
FIX THE BOUNTY SYSTEM

Give the people effected by gankers the ability to do something about it, and at the same time, create the profession of bounty hunters that ccp "claims" exists, but doesn't.

That was my favourate bit of the new website, the blatant lie that the bounty hunter profession exists. Errrm.... it doesn't! It's broken. Whats more, everyone has been screaming that its broken for YEARS! Kinda underhanded of ccp claiming otherwise just to entice people to start playing eve, i mean, who doesn't want to be a bounty hunter??

Make bounties like contracts. I set bounty contract against pirate A, assign contract to bounty hunter individual/corporation B, resulting in exploding pirate ship/pod C, giving nice big bounty payout D. Sorted!

Or think of something else, please, anything has got to be better than putting a bounty on some guys head, and them collecting it 5 minutes later with their friends help.

That way, people getting ganked can stop moaning cause they've no interest in PVP, and gankers can get all exicted about more PVP coming their way. Best of all, bounty hunters become a viable profession! Everyone wins!

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  
GetSirrus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2012-02-08 00:29:26 UTC
I have asked that there be a review. Please point out exactly where I have a directed specific action to restrict the action of suicide ganking in high-sec?

The Mittani wrote:
people whining about suicide ganking should get ganked more until they learn to enjoy it


Then I thought about this. Perhaps there is some truth here. (color me pariah) Players perception needs to be aligned to game.

I had an idea for a tutorial which should be done by new players. In which they lose ship and pod by an ambush. Then the remainer of the tutorial explains about the games tools of d-scan, local chat intel, map and statisics. (and any other tools which really should be ingrained knowledge within the first 10hrs of play).

Get new player over the shock immediately. The current series of tutoral merely foster carebear attitude by their design.

And see? We haven't nerfed current mechanics at all. But this is not the place for this suggestion. It should be raised when there is a forum of review - then all players can have feedback about improvement. Which is no different from what is currently happening with Incursions.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#12 - 2012-02-08 00:40:05 UTC
Xen Solarus wrote:
FIX THE BOUNTY SYSTEM

Give the people effected by gankers the ability to do something about it, and at the same time, create the profession of bounty hunters that ccp "claims" exists, but doesn't.

That was my favourate bit of the new website, the blatant lie that the bounty hunter profession exists. Errrm.... it doesn't! It's broken. Whats more, everyone has been screaming that its broken for YEARS! Kinda underhanded of ccp claiming otherwise just to entice people to start playing eve, i mean, who doesn't want to be a bounty hunter??

Make bounties like contracts. I set bounty contract against pirate A, assign contract to bounty hunter individual/corporation B, resulting in exploding pirate ship/pod C, giving nice big bounty payout D. Sorted!

Or think of something else, please, anything has got to be better than putting a bounty on some guys head, and them collecting it 5 minutes later with their friends help.

That way, people getting ganked can stop moaning cause they've no interest in PVP, and gankers can get all exicted about more PVP coming their way. Best of all, bounty hunters become a viable profession! Everyone wins!


And even better, the gankers start ganking each other for bounties, lol P
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#13 - 2012-02-08 04:18:47 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
GetSirrus wrote:
I have asked that there be a review. Please point out exactly where I have a directed specific action to restrict the action of suicide ganking in high-sec?


To be fair... anytime someone says that suicide ganking "needs review" they are generally aiming to nerf it or make it harder in some fashion. In the future, you might want to consider including a goal or reason for "bringing into review."

GetSirrus wrote:
I had an idea for a tutorial which should be done by new players. In which they lose ship and pod by an ambush. Then the remainer of the tutorial explains about the games tools of d-scan, local chat intel, map and statisics. (and any other tools which really should be ingrained knowledge within the first 10hrs of play).

Get new player over the shock immediately. The current series of tutoral merely foster carebear attitude by their design.


There was an idea similar to this that was floated in the F&I forum awhile ago. Basically it would be a mission (and purely optional at that) that would be available only to accounts that are less than 1 month old (to prevent abuse). This mission would essentially ask the newbie to get into a CHEAP frigate (or be provided one) and go out to a randomized system out in null-sec (not too far out into it though)... nothing more. Just get to point A, doesn't matter how you get back.
The reward would be something that only a true newbie would covet (I'm thinking a Tier 3 cruiser or something) but not necessarily need.

How did you Veterans start?
Davader
Space Cleaners
The Gorgon Empire
#14 - 2012-02-08 14:54:11 UTC
GetSirrus wrote:
suicide ganking is too easy. .


Really? Is it too easy? I think, it's not. Removing the insurance by last big patch was a good act of balancing, why do more? There are many ways not to waste expensive stuff carrying from Jita to your carebearing location. If you fly afk on tankless ship - don't be offended, please.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#15 - 2012-02-08 15:14:25 UTC
In more than a year of carebearing, I was never ganked in highsec. Why?

Because I flew properly-tanked ships and didn't autopilot.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2012-02-08 15:29:35 UTC
I think fixing the bounty system properly is the answer for this thread.

THIS thread addresses this issue quite nicely.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#17 - 2012-02-08 18:41:02 UTC
Just add value to killrights. Allow the players to set the concord/NPC navy/docking rights response if that ganker is ever unfortunate enough to jump into the same system as the victim. Allow the players to set this reoccurring response for the duration of a standard killright. Or increase the duration of killrights.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Deus Teragrammaton
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2012-02-08 19:56:52 UTC
Suicide Ganking does not need review

The only times I've EVER lost a ship to suicide gankers is because I wasn't paying attention

There are already in-game mechanics for the prevention of this, it's called not being AFK, warping to 0, and tanking your ship if it has slow align time

Does not need review, learn to play the game.