These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

The REAL reason CCP doesn't ban as many botters as you would like...
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#61 - 2012-02-07 13:57:39 UTC
Wasn't Isaac Asimov convicted of child abuse in Sri Lanka? Just saying, is all.

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#62 - 2012-02-07 19:23:11 UTC
Doubt ccp will ever do anything about bots, and if they do, the botters will just think of a way around it. Becides, aren't ccp making cash from them? Shocked

Best option is to go for the player based solution, which tends to prove much faster and more effective than anything ccp could do. By this, i mean more players actively seeking out bots and blowing them up! Lol

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#63 - 2012-02-07 19:42:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Xen Solarus wrote:
Best option is to go for the player based solution, which tends to prove much faster and more effective than anything ccp could do. By this, i mean more players actively seeking out bots and blowing them up! Lol

Yes, solve it with explosions! Being proactive is the way forward.
Mai Khumm wrote:
So now whenever a player would start the instiance the server would randomly choose one of the NPC layouts.

The only hard part was figuring everything out, and since CCP made the game themselves from scratch. Well.....there goes the hard part!

Everyone is already aware that a bunch of the original developers/coders are no longer at CCP, and the code is hard to understand at best, frequently undocumented and uncommented, because this acts like a coding minefield that causes tons of problems in implementing new code and helps lead to amazing patch-related crashings and bugs.

Every now and then something comes up as being simply impossible because of similar issues. I think POS code is mentioned every now and then.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#64 - 2012-02-08 01:30:51 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:

Every now and then something comes up as being simply impossible because of similar issues. I think POS code is mentioned every now and then.


There are some fantastic dev quotes regarding POS code.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#65 - 2012-02-08 01:50:13 UTC
I think CCP gives bots just enough attention to seem to be concerned but really isn't that interested solving the problem as there is an economic benefit for them to let the botting continue. $$$ because of the players that quit over botting < $$ from plexes and what not that results from botting. Those plexes have to get bought by someone.

As a software engineer with 45 years of experience I can say you could do a lot to make bot-ing much harder and to regularly break bots that did manage to get around stuff CCP did to make bot-ing harder.

The fact that we haven't seen any "technology" solutions introduced in Eve and that CCP continues the "direct monitor and investigate response to player reports" seems to support CCP's relative lack of concern to me.

It is a cat and mouse game so I agree a sufficiently motivated and clever mouse will avoid the cat, but this looks to be a well fed cat with other toys it finds more interesting than a lowly botting mouse (that might just be paying for some of the catnip).

Issler
Serene Repose
#66 - 2012-02-08 03:31:20 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Serene Repose wrote:
The OP is pure balderdash. If CCP wanted no botting, CCP could code for no botting. It wouldn't take an army of enforcers to monitor the server night and day. If they wanted to close the hole, they could close it. A first-year computer science student could.


I assume, then, that you're a first-year (at least) CompSci student, and are willing to instruct a group of professional programmers with nearly a decade of experience on how to do this? Even if they won't take your advice, please do enlighten us proles, for the sake of knowledge.

You so funny GI. I love you long time.

We must accommodate the idiocracy.
Dodona
The Guardian Knights
#67 - 2012-02-08 03:40:38 UTC
This is the part where I shamelessly promote my own idea on getting everyday players to combat bots.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#68 - 2012-02-08 03:53:01 UTC
Serene Repose wrote:
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Serene Repose wrote:
The OP is pure balderdash. If CCP wanted no botting, CCP could code for no botting. It wouldn't take an army of enforcers to monitor the server night and day. If they wanted to close the hole, they could close it. A first-year computer science student could.


I assume, then, that you're a first-year (at least) CompSci student, and are willing to instruct a group of professional programmers with nearly a decade of experience on how to do this? Even if they won't take your advice, please do enlighten us proles, for the sake of knowledge.

You so funny GI. I love you long time.


So either you are (or have been) a first year Comp-Sci Student and can explain how to do this, or you have no idea what capabilities a first year Comp-Sci student has and likely have no idea of the complexity of the problem you say is trivial.


Serene Repose wrote:

No...what you fail to mention is members of CCP are botting as players. They're also in cahoots with friends of theirs in other corps and alliances who bot. It's, after all, their sandbox first and foremost.


I'll ask again:

Do you have any evidence to back up your outlandish claim that CCP employees run (or have knowledge of specific) active botting operations?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Valentyn3
Deep Core Mining Inc.
#69 - 2012-02-08 06:08:23 UTC
Bots and bot related activities are the Reptoid Shadow Goverments of the MMO world.

I don't always use hax. But when I do, it's because I'm an NPC.. http://i.imgur.com/PUZou.jpg
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#70 - 2012-02-08 07:35:43 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Serene Repose wrote:
The OP is pure balderdash. If CCP wanted no botting, CCP could code for no botting. It wouldn't take an army of enforcers to monitor the server night and day. If they wanted to close the hole, they could close it. A first-year computer science student could.

No...what you fail to mention is members of CCP are botting as players. They're also in cahoots with friends of theirs in other corps and alliances who bot. It's, after all, their sandbox first and foremost.

The rest of us? They just want our money so they can keep the servers up and running...since all botters pay in PLEX.

It's not rocket science.


Tell that to Blizzard. They spent buckets of money and manpower on Warden and... surprise... the botters got around it.

If you had any evidence to back up your outlandish claims about CCP employees running (or knowing of) botting operations, I'm sure you'd have posted it, but just in case;

Do you have any evidence to back up your outlandish claim that CCP employees run (or have knowledge of) active botting operations?
Wow. As if a Red Alliance aligned entity has any ground upon which to stand when it comes to botting discussions. Your space is filled with tengu and machariel bots that consistently produce 5k+ NPC kills per system, daily.

Revel in the ISK that you are making [for now] and stop pretending to own the high-ground in this thread.

+++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark “Seleene” Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith.
Ganagati
Perkone
Caldari State
#71 - 2012-02-08 07:56:43 UTC
Getting rid of local is definitely a great way to help botters. Since bots are pretty quick about what they do, having them watch d-scan would be a quick and easy fix and would allow them to have ample warning... and that's assuming it isn't a memory reading bot. Then it has the advantage. :)

Without local, many players might overlook sectors and move on because they get tired of scanning in every... single... sector. That would give bots that extra peace of mind they need to keep at it.

Remove local- support botting! :)

.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#72 - 2012-02-08 08:06:32 UTC
Hakaru Ishiwara wrote:
]Wow. As if a Red Alliance aligned entity has any ground upon which to stand when it comes to botting discussions. Your space is filled with tengu and machariel bots that consistently produce 5k+ NPC kills per system, daily.

Revel in the ISK that you are making [for now] and stop pretending to own the high-ground in this thread.


Yeah, I've played this game before ad nauseaum, but,

What evidence do you have to back up your claims?

Furthermore:
A thread where another EvE-O regular and I tried to get someone making similar claims to back them with evidence for ~20 pages and he tried to weasel his way around the fact that he had none.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#73 - 2012-02-08 14:11:55 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Hakaru Ishiwara wrote:
]Wow. As if a Red Alliance aligned entity has any ground upon which to stand when it comes to botting discussions. Your space is filled with tengu and machariel bots that consistently produce 5k+ NPC kills per system, daily.

Revel in the ISK that you are making [for now] and stop pretending to own the high-ground in this thread.


Yeah, I've played this game before ad nauseaum, but,

What evidence do you have to back up your claims?

Furthermore:
A thread where another EvE-O regular and I tried to get someone making similar claims to back them with evidence for ~20 pages and he tried to weasel his way around the fact that he had none.
Not going to fall into that trap. Trolling 9/10.

CCP, as owner of the EVE IP and service systems, has all of the data available it needs to observe, document and take action on large-scale botting networks and yet they persist across vast regions of space and over the course of many years. It is CCP's choice whether or not they take action. From my perspective, it is clear what choice they have made: let the bot managers rule supreme.

+++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark “Seleene” Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#74 - 2012-02-09 01:18:49 UTC
Hakaru Ishiwara wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Hakaru Ishiwara wrote:
]Wow. As if a Red Alliance aligned entity has any ground upon which to stand when it comes to botting discussions. Your space is filled with tengu and machariel bots that consistently produce 5k+ NPC kills per system, daily.

Revel in the ISK that you are making [for now] and stop pretending to own the high-ground in this thread.


Yeah, I've played this game before ad nauseaum, but,

What evidence do you have to back up your claims?

Furthermore:
A thread where another EvE-O regular and I tried to get someone making similar claims to back them with evidence for ~20 pages and he tried to weasel his way around the fact that he had none.
Not going to fall into that trap. Trolling 9/10.

CCP, as owner of the EVE IP and service systems, has all of the data available it needs to observe, document and take action on large-scale botting networks and yet they persist across vast regions of space and over the course of many years. It is CCP's choice whether or not they take action. From my perspective, it is clear what choice they have made: let the bot managers rule supreme.


What experience or evidence do you have to back up those claims?

For instance, do you know how to discern between a bot and a farmer with certainty given limited data (not everything can be logged because of server and data storage issues)?

Do you have evidence to prove that those RA aligned systems you mention are generating those 5k kills illegitimately?

It's not a troll nor is it a trap when I simply ask why you have come to a certain conclusion.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Cyndrogen
The Greatest Corp in the Universe
#75 - 2012-02-09 01:54:00 UTC
I'm in ALLIANCE A

I want to wage war and eliminate ALLIANCE B

I report and ban several false "BOTS" and abuse my police power....

That would never happen? Riiiight, just like cops in real life never PLANT evidence.


Please.


The solution is to make Mining and other game mechanics that allow easy macro creation to be remade so you CAN"T mine without human intelligence.

For one I would REMOVE all belts from overview and make them SCANNABLE only via probes. The better your skills the better chance you have of getting GOOD ore.

This would also take out ALL noobs out of the mining profession and force them to run missions in the beginning until they can cross train for mining barges and help stabilize the market. Only legitimate miners should be allowed to mine ore via HIGHSEC contracts.

Make it less profitable for individuals to mine to encourage team play. This would help to keep a cluster of miners together making them better gank targets as well as earn more isk and reward team play.

Every day in every way I improve my skills and get better.
Ascendic
Polaris Syndicate
#76 - 2012-02-09 06:05:46 UTC
Widemouth Deepthroat wrote:
You can just google for bots and look at their websites, manuals etc to see that you're wrong. All the popular bots use local chat to detect hostiles. In fact I couldn't even find one that uses another method of detecing hostiles.


Are you admitting to intentionally searching for a bot?

BAN THIS MAN!
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#77 - 2012-02-09 06:08:43 UTC
cyndrogen wrote:



The solution is to make Mining and other game mechanics that allow easy macro creation to be remade so you CAN"T mine without human intelligence.


There is literally no way to program something that does this unless it involves finding a analytical solution to an arbitrarily difficult mathematical problem such as a differential equation.

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Ancy Denaries
Frontier Venture
#78 - 2012-02-09 18:23:04 UTC
Hakaru Ishiwara wrote:
TBH, I believe that CCP pays bot hunting lip service and turns the other way regarding the truly large botting operations in null-sec. The amount of botting subscriptions, whether they are funded with RL cash fees or purchased PLEX, allows Hilmar and his executive cronies those really nice rims on their leased Land Rovers. Plus, those investors need feeding every so often...

Ooh look, someone didn't take their medication this morning. Quickly, put on this tinfoil hat! Then they can't get to you!

"Shoot at anything that moves. If it doesn't move, shoot it anyway, it might move later."

"Do not be too positive. The light at the end of the tunnel could be a train." - Franz Kafka
Prince Kobol
#79 - 2012-02-09 18:42:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
First off.. CCP have already killed of one bot although the name escapes me.

However it was a fairly simple OCR Bot.

Whilst CCP can not eliminate bots, they can make life a lot harder for them if they wished.

At the moment you can create 100% untraceable accounts, the client is about as secure as a sieve and it is far too easy to sell characters for rl money.

If CCP made an effort to secure the client and make it so you can not create untraceable accounts then this will go some way in making life a lot more difficult for botters and RMT merchants.


.............................................


The bot that was killed was roid ripper :)
Zowie Powers
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2012-02-09 20:46:11 UTC
I make it a personal policy to trust and believe any thread that has "REAL" or "TRUTH" in the title, in capital letters.

ATX: The best of the rest.