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Megathron... WHY is it bad?

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EVE Stig
Doomheim
#1 - 2011-09-19 03:32:55 UTC  |  Edited by: EVE Stig
I lurk a lot here, I keep seeing people asking for CCP to fix Hybrids and/or fix the Megathron.

Why on both?

Im new, I dont see whats wrong.

"Some say that he is actually dead, but the Grim Reaper is too afraid to tell him." "Some say he is the 3rd member of Daft Punk and he did the vocals of "Technologic" song. All we know is,he's called EVE Stig"!
EVE Stig
Doomheim
#2 - 2011-09-19 03:54:19 UTC
anyone have an answer or is this just one of those "vocal minority" things I see thrown around alot?

"Some say that he is actually dead, but the Grim Reaper is too afraid to tell him." "Some say he is the 3rd member of Daft Punk and he did the vocals of "Technologic" song. All we know is,he's called EVE Stig"!
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2011-09-19 04:01:01 UTC
1) Blasters as a platform are obsolete, they're close range weapons that can actually suffer negative tracking when you get INSIDE their optimal, and since their optimal is SO close to the target, this happens quite frequently

2) Gallent boats in general need to get right up close to a target to put anything close to their maximum damamge, Webs and Scrams give any other race ship the ability to hang outside of Blaster optimal on nearly all ships and keep the damage to a minimum

3) Gallent boats CAN be shield tanked, but their optimal setting is as an armor tanker, this compounds the problem of damage application since its hard to get the ship in range since its a fat slow cow. By the time your Mega is applying damage to the target its generally getting raped by any other tier 2 BS

4) Agility, see above, the gallent ships in general lack it, where as the Adrestia (probably mis spelled, but it was a reward for the alliance tourney year before last) doesn't suffer that problem, it should be the general working model for Gallent agility, its not.

5) Rails, while able to reach ridiculously far, aren't really used, because anything out that far can just be warped in on, meaning that any other weapons system is more ideal because it will yield higher DPS.


I mean, thats just the 5 right off the top of my head. There is literally a laundry list of things that need improvement for Gallent/Hybrids in general to make them as appealing as the other 3 weapons systems (lasers/projectiles/missiles)

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
#4 - 2011-09-19 05:05:46 UTC
Rails - good range but low damage, people lasers and arts to better damage.


Blasters - crappy fall off, and optimal is within bumping range.


To get within range you need to fly up with them but as an armor tanking ship your acceleration is super slow and so is agility. Also mwd nerf cap and blasters require a ton of cap to use.

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#5 - 2011-09-19 05:10:47 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
1) Blasters as a platform are obsolete, they're close range weapons that can actually suffer negative tracking when you get INSIDE their optimal, and since their optimal is SO close to the target, this happens quite frequently

2) Gallent boats in general need to get right up close to a target to put anything close to their maximum damamge, Webs and Scrams give any other race ship the ability to hang outside of Blaster optimal on nearly all ships and keep the damage to a minimum

3) Gallent boats CAN be shield tanked, but their optimal setting is as an armor tanker, this compounds the problem of damage application since its hard to get the ship in range since its a fat slow cow. By the time your Mega is applying damage to the target its generally getting raped by any other tier 2 BS

4) Agility, see above, the gallent ships in general lack it, where as the Adrestia (probably mis spelled, but it was a reward for the alliance tourney year before last) doesn't suffer that problem, it should be the general working model for Gallent agility, its not.

5) Rails, while able to reach ridiculously far, aren't really used, because anything out that far can just be warped in on, meaning that any other weapons system is more ideal because it will yield higher DPS.


I mean, thats just the 5 right off the top of my head. There is literally a laundry list of things that need improvement for Gallent/Hybrids in general to make them as appealing as the other 3 weapons systems (lasers/projectiles/missiles)


This would be all correct, if Grath just remembered to mention that in high- and lowsec, and on smaller ship platforms, blasters are stupidly powerful due to their innate high damage combined with scrambler/web.

The problem for Gallente comes at bigger ship sizes or in null.

Rails, on the other hand, is (bar the rail-frigates and few PvE-platforms) almost always bad. So CCP currently need to find a way to boost rails, while blasters.. well. Either you claim blasters are fail, and thus you probably look at nullsec/blob mechanics, or you see how damn powerful they are, but then you have ignored nullsec instead.

I guess the best 'fix' to hybrids would be to leave blasters as they are, while boosting rails and their operational ranges to make it a viable weapon for nullsec- and bs-combat. At that point noone could really complain about hybrids.

TL;DR/short version: Megathron and blasters are situationally really powerful, or situationally really bad. Rails are almost always fail.

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#6 - 2011-09-19 05:16:23 UTC
I don't think there is much wrong with them.
Weren't they used a lot before when there were lots of snipe bs fleets in null?
I think they look great too.
SilentSkills
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2011-09-19 05:17:04 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:

5) Rails, while able to reach ridiculously far, aren't really used, because anything out that far can just be warped in on, meaning that any other weapons system is more ideal because it will yield higher DPS.


I mean, thats just the 5 right off the top of my head. There is literally a laundry list of things that need improvement for Gallent/Hybrids in general to make them as appealing as the other 3 weapons systems (lasers/projectiles/missiles)


Actually rails aren't bad mid range platforms (40-60 km range or more at a cost) the main problem with using rails is the insane fitting requirements even with maxed fitting skills, which usually ends up eliminating any prospect of tank passive/active and/or speed mods.

I've flown megas before, they are great for solo ganking, but aren't really that great for fleets/small gangs because as mentioned before, lack range, tracking, speed, etc.

The tier 3 BS is ok for soloing, but virtually useless on medium to big fleets, but I guess it could be worse, Rokh comes to mind.


The main issues with gallente ships are the operating range and its very limited fitting options (low CPU, and PG in some cases) , I've flown several races' Cruisers/BCs and BSes and Gallente is the only race which does not allow for:
1- the use of the biggest (in some cases ions also create fitting issues) caliber guns and have some sort of tank and/or speed mod
2- a complete t2 loadout on some of the standard fits without gimping something (megathron with Hneut and Neutrons)
3- the use of t2 Neutron blasters any size + t2 active tank

I could go on and on in depth because I've flown mostly gallente since I started playing, and only recently (last year or so) I "discovered" the hurricane, artillery/autos and pulse lasers. Needless to say I no longer fly any Gallente BC after that.
Levarris Hawk
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2011-09-19 05:18:54 UTC
Megatron is the leader of the decepticons, dont let his cool whispy jazz voice fool you. He is very evil.

I love it when typos attack.
EVE Stig
Doomheim
#9 - 2011-09-19 16:21:18 UTC
AlleyKat wrote:


http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=206791

Cut and paste the above to see my very first ever post that asks the same question you have asked - 2005


Yeah, sorry Im not searching the forums from 2005 to as k a question
An youre saying the answers from 6 years ago are relevant to the game now? There have been no changes?

"Some say that he is actually dead, but the Grim Reaper is too afraid to tell him." "Some say he is the 3rd member of Daft Punk and he did the vocals of "Technologic" song. All we know is,he's called EVE Stig"!
Aloe Cloveris
The Greater Goon
#10 - 2011-09-19 16:56:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Aloe Cloveris
Just Another Toon wrote:
I think we are missing something here that hasnt been mentioned!

DRONES...

Gallente are drone specialists, Megathrons can fit damn hard hitting T2 Heavy Drones, or more med drones etc. This is where you get that extra big dps for range.

So you have the rails for a bit longer distance (they not supposed to be hard hitting, artys are), You have the huge DPS of close range for blasters and then have the drones for in between, also you get nice bonuses for drones too,

Yes blasters may have rubbish tracking and needs to be fixed, but you have missed out the fundamental thing about gallente and thats drones!!


Amarr has turret hulls with bandwidth comparable to their Gallentean counterparts in most hull classes. Those drones might 'only' do 67% of the damage of a Gallente drone hull that's trained to V, but they have the overwhelming advantage of being able to fit a full rack of Scorch'd pulses that are doing just shy of blaster dps supplementing that 'weak' drone damage ... all while the Gallentean hull lumbers across grid bleeding into structure while it closes into that ****** Electron Blaster range (you're resigned to Electrons - mayyyybe Ions - if you want anything sort of resembling a hint of a shadow of a tank because Blasters and especially Railguns have whatthefuck PG requirements compared to, say, their projectile counterparts).

idk lol v0v

e: But, and. Unlike drones which are abandoned in an emergency warp-out or are killed off one-by-one (or smartbombed out of existence) the only way for any other race to lose all of its dps is to intentionally jettison all of its ammo. Drones aren't OP. They're a liability.
SilentSkills
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2011-09-19 20:18:22 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:


Blaster really do track awesomely well, until you get TOO close, then something funky happens in the math and they start tracking retardedly bad.

At 500m you can score wrecking hits, at 480 you'll constantly miss type of thing.


welcome to Calculus I, In chapter 1 we cover limits which explains why you can't hit a thing at 480 and score wrecking hits at 500. Drop date is October 31 with partial refund Blink
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#12 - 2011-09-19 23:11:22 UTC
EVE Stig wrote:
yeah, sorry Im not searching the forums from 2005 to ask a question
An your'e saying the answers from 6 years ago are relevant to the game now? There have been no changes?


Lord no, don't get me wrong.

It's very relevant because the comments in that thread illustrate what the strengths of Gallente were - which CCP have ruined, probably forever.

I've laid the gauntlet many times and I'll continue to do so: I've asked CCP to join me on the test server and demonstrate a Blaster setup with a Megathron that can get into range of another ship, or rather, that can dictate range on another ship and deal damage.

My mailbox remains empty.

AK

This space for rent.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#13 - 2011-09-19 23:58:16 UTC
Aiwha wrote:
(warpins are not an issue, you cannot warp onto a neutral vessel)


yes you can. that's what scanning is for. and any decent gang should have at least one scan-capable ship.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#14 - 2011-09-20 00:56:45 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
1) Blasters as a platform are obsolete, they're close range weapons that can actually suffer negative tracking when you get INSIDE their optimal, and since their optimal is SO close to the target, this happens quite frequently

2) Gallent boats in general need to get right up close to a target to put anything close to their maximum damamge, Webs and Scrams give any other race ship the ability to hang outside of Blaster optimal on nearly all ships and keep the damage to a minimum

3) Gallent boats CAN be shield tanked, but their optimal setting is as an armor tanker, this compounds the problem of damage application since its hard to get the ship in range since its a fat slow cow. By the time your Mega is applying damage to the target its generally getting raped by any other tier 2 BS

4) Agility, see above, the gallent ships in general lack it, where as the Adrestia (probably mis spelled, but it was a reward for the alliance tourney year before last) doesn't suffer that problem, it should be the general working model for Gallent agility, its not.

5) Rails, while able to reach ridiculously far, aren't really used, because anything out that far can just be warped in on, meaning that any other weapons system is more ideal because it will yield higher DPS.


I mean, thats just the 5 right off the top of my head. There is literally a laundry list of things that need improvement for Gallent/Hybrids in general to make them as appealing as the other 3 weapons systems (lasers/projectiles/missiles)



Gallente ships are based on the Spanish Armada principles.

Didn't work out well for Spain.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Hicksimus
Torgue
#15 - 2011-09-20 12:43:39 UTC
The megathron is the very best solo pvp T1 battleship in EvE.

People that believe it is broken don't understand how to use it.


Tons of EHP, spare space for a neut, web, couple mag stabs, ogre II's, 1100dps without implants.....

Recruitment Officer: What type of a pilot are you? Me: I've been described as a Ray Charles with Parkinsons and a drinking problem.
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#16 - 2011-09-20 12:53:29 UTC
Hicksimus wrote:
The megathron is the very best solo pvp T1 battleship in EvE.

People that believe it is broken don't understand how to use it.


Tons of EHP, spare space for a neut, web, couple mag stabs, ogre II's, 1100dps without implants.....


lol

If only...

This space for rent.
Demon Azrakel
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2011-09-20 17:57:18 UTC
Hicksimus wrote:
The megathron is the very best solo pvp T1 battleship in EvE.

People that believe it is broken don't understand how to use it.


Tons of EHP, spare space for a neut, web, couple mag stabs, ogre II's, 1100dps without implants.....


Now get in web range...I hope you are not trying to go against just about any other bs, because most will kite you or do a ton of dps on your way in while you tickle their shields (Geddon-I am looking at you).
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#18 - 2011-09-20 18:30:28 UTC
Hicksimus wrote:
The megathron is the very best solo pvp T1 battleship in EvE.

People that believe it is broken don't understand how to use it.


Tons of EHP, spare space for a neut, web, couple mag stabs, ogre II's, 1100dps without implants.....


this is only true if your opponent has the mental capacity of a brick and lets you get within scram / web range. also, the concept of a "solo pvp battleship" is just a wee bit silly, dontcha think?
Annie Anomie
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2011-09-20 18:46:03 UTC
Because it is not an abaddon.
Demon Azrakel
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2011-09-20 20:02:06 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Hicksimus wrote:
The megathron is the very best solo pvp T1 battleship in EvE.

People that believe it is broken don't understand how to use it.


Tons of EHP, spare space for a neut, web, couple mag stabs, ogre II's, 1100dps without implants.....


this is only true if your opponent has the mental capacity of a brick and lets you get within scram / web range. also, the concept of a "solo pvp battleship" is just a wee bit silly, dontcha think?


I side with you, but *Garmon* (without booster alts, lets say)...
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