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This is why CCP should nerf the Tengu.

Author
Apollo Eros
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2012-02-06 10:07:45 UTC
Justin Cody wrote:
Kingzolo wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn_c2Q2W09U

Too OP really.


Ok I've watched most of that video and I can tell you many reasons that in this case it isn't OP.

1) he is using what appears to be either a friend who is giving command bonuses to point range and speed, deadspace equipment, or a combination thereof.

A t2 point on a tengu does not normally give you 42km or more point range or beyond 20KM web range.

2) he is for the most part not taking sentry gun fire, rather engaging those who are SoS or silly enough to engage a 100mn AB fit tengu.

3) he is managing his cap very well and even a single curse will not keep him neuted out completely if he manages his injections well enough.

4) despite hi getting very close to people many times...no one hits him with a webbifier, so either he scanned em ahead of time (most likely) or it is staged. I supposed he could also be targeting morons.

5) good video of epic solo pvp



He does use a booster.

[Triple OG LVL 5 Space Wizard]

Roime
Shiva Furnace
#22 - 2012-02-06 10:10:41 UTC
Just nerf the missile damage very slightly at those extreme ranges and it will be fine.

.

Dztrgovac
#23 - 2012-02-06 11:02:22 UTC
So, he is using:

gist 100mn AB (didn't see which type)
standard blue pill,
quafe zero,
true sansha web,
likely faction point,
nearly max skilled T3 booster alt
etc...

Now before you say that investing 3Bn and having two accounts should award you with unstoppable solopwnmobile (because having booster alt is SOLO)... please say could any other ship combination for same ammounnt if isk wreak as much havoc. Two facption pimped pirate BSes, any non Tengu T3 with a T3 booster, any other ship with a T3 booster.

100mn T3s return the "glorious" days of full scale nano faggotry where everyone was "I invested 3 bil in this, I deserve to pwn everything".


Oh and this is nice proof about "validity" of claims that Caldari are bad for PVP. Lets see, Tengu is best for all kinds of PVE, and 100Mn AB one is most useful for fleet flights (some people have way too much isk) and solopwn.
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2012-02-06 11:28:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Mfume Apocal
Dztrgovac wrote:
Lets see, Tengu is best for all kinds of PVE, and 100Mn AB one is most useful for fleet flights (some people have way too much isk) and solopwn.


Tengu isn't particularly good for Incursions. And 100MN ABs are incredibly bad for fleets, the Tengu fleets you see have 10MN ABs.
Kingzolo
Kadavr Black Guard
#25 - 2012-02-06 12:24:19 UTC
I dont think they nerf shuold break the tengu to much, i would rarther that there where some greater penalties to the 100MN fit. Like even worse agility and acceleration.
L0rdF1end
Gang Bang You're Dead
Wrecktical Supremacy.
#26 - 2012-02-06 13:53:11 UTC
Targets in the video look dumb. He actually comes within 10km of the targets on a few rare occassions and should of been webbed and scrammed.

But this is what it's like in Eve, sometimes you fight dumb opponents, then the next fight you get ganked by about 10 people.

You shouldn't take a ship being OP just from a youtube video of someones best fights.

Oh, and here's his 2.4 bil Tengu fit.
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=14997972
Dztrgovac
#27 - 2012-02-06 15:50:59 UTC
When he's going on 3kms with insane inertia that oversized AB gives him he will take forever to slow down with any number of webs on him; certainly long enough to get out of web range.
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#28 - 2012-02-06 17:10:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Mutnin
If you guys notice, he was webbed many times but he was smart enough to take out the ships webbing him. Still it was a lot of fail from his targets which allows a good pilot to do crazy things in a Pmped out ship.

Also if you notice at end of video they used T2 fit Tengus and almost died horribly at the start of the fight where they then managed to pull out due to the targets not finishing the job when having the opportunity.

Despite this... CCP should nerf Tengus, Drakes & Caracal.. because PVE ships shouldn't be able to PVP..
Kingzolo
Kadavr Black Guard
#29 - 2012-02-06 17:41:11 UTC
Also... This Tengu is actually engaging multiple targets 5+ in more occasions.. Try to imangine if there was a fleet of 4-5 tengus - Would be massacre.

Again, they should nerf that 100mn somehow, when put on cruisers/BC, becayse this is madness. 5k m/s and suerb accel/agility is just dumb. Only counter shuold be the Bhallgorn with min. complex webs, becuase all other web ships will just die secs after webbing.

100mn on cruiser class ships:
-100% agility penalty
-100% Acceleration penalty. (maybe even more)


With theese penaties rapiers and others with webs might have a chance of slowing it enough for others to catch up.
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#30 - 2012-02-06 17:46:04 UTC
Kingzolo wrote:
Also... This Tengu is actually engaging multiple targets 5+ in more occasions.. Try to imangine if there was a fleet of 4-5 tengus - Would be massacre.

Again, they should nerf that 100mn somehow, when put on cruisers/BC, becayse this is madness. 5k m/s and suerb accel/agility is just dumb. Only counter shuold be the Bhallgorn with min. complex webs, becuase all other web ships will just die secs after webbing.

100mn on cruiser class ships:
-100% agility penalty
-100% Acceleration penalty. (maybe even more)


With theese penaties rapiers and others with webs might have a chance of slowing it enough for others to catch up.


You are being tarded.. at no point did he ever even get close to 5km/s Best was just slightly over 3.5km/s but when going that fast the ship turns like a flying Brick.
Kingzolo
Kadavr Black Guard
#31 - 2012-02-06 18:23:11 UTC
Mutnin wrote:
Kingzolo wrote:
Also... This Tengu is actually engaging multiple targets 5+ in more occasions.. Try to imangine if there was a fleet of 4-5 tengus - Would be massacre.

Again, they should nerf that 100mn somehow, when put on cruisers/BC, becayse this is madness. 5k m/s and suerb accel/agility is just dumb. Only counter shuold be the Bhallgorn with min. complex webs, becuase all other web ships will just die secs after webbing.

100mn on cruiser class ships:
-100% agility penalty
-100% Acceleration penalty. (maybe even more)


With theese penaties rapiers and others with webs might have a chance of slowing it enough for others to catch up.


You are being tarded.. at no point did he ever even get close to 5km/s Best was just slightly over 3.5km/s but when going that fast the ship turns like a flying Brick.



Actually sir, you are beeing retarted and shuold watch the vidio closer before u comment. - get to 18min and 35 sec. The Tengu reaches 4800 m/s OH and you can see that he isent even maxed out. And the thing about turning like a brick - well yes its shuold be like that but it sure aint. Keeping an orbit at sometime with over 2200 m/s on 20km isent brick like unfortunatly.

Some side info btw for u guys thiking about webs.
-at a point he is beeing webed by a rapier and still goin 2200 m/s
-Later on he has webs on him from rapier+drake still goin 800+ m/s.
Princess Nexxala
Quantum Cats Syndicate
#32 - 2012-02-06 18:30:09 UTC
Buff the Tengu please!

Oh sorry wrong threadShocked

nom nom

Outz Xacto
Echelon Munitions
#33 - 2012-02-06 18:55:14 UTC
ITT:
People complaining about months of skill training for specific purposes, billions of isk spent, and the use of two accounts.
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
#34 - 2012-02-06 18:59:14 UTC
100Mn AB Tengu has no equal, especially not when boosted by a T3 alt as done in that video .. anything fast enough to catch/stop it dies before its in any danger.
Only thing one has to be wary of is neuting so a wide berth around Curses when they come around, but then that's the story for pretty much all ships so 'meh' Smile

Also, "lol" at buffing all other T3s, aka. making all four as OP compared to all other ships as the Tengu is ..

Limit ability to oversize by increasing fitting requirement on likely/commonly used modules .. plates, drives, extenders, booster et al., or reduce fittings to allow anything and everything to be oversized by all ships and tweak penalties instead (ex. drives to increase mass by more than current).
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2012-02-06 20:40:23 UTC
He's probably receiving bonuses while having good implants and a pimped out ship.

I've seen similar performances in other ships.

Tengu's are ships that give you more bang for your buck. The more bucks you put in, the more bang you get. Clearly this guy made a hefty investment and is now reaping the benefits.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Hemmo Paskiainen
#36 - 2012-02-06 21:53:04 UTC
because of a 5b snaked tengu? (with rf point)

If relativity equals time plus momentum, what equals relativity, if the momentum is minus to the time?

Dztrgovac
#37 - 2012-02-06 22:07:21 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
He's probably receiving bonuses while having good implants and a pimped out ship.

I've seen similar performances in other ships.

Tengu's are ships that give you more bang for your buck. The more bucks you put in, the more bang you get. Clearly this guy made a hefty investment and is now reaping the benefits.



There is no if to any of those.

Said pilot can afford to lose couple of 1.5-3B Tengus each month so we see his fits. Achieving those web and point ranges even with faction gear (which he uses) requires pretty much perfectly skilled T3 link booster. He opens his inventory at one time and we see quafe zero and standard blue pill.


But. It has been official position of CCP that while isk and skill should of course give pilots the edge; they mustn't allow solopwnmobiles. That was why old nano died all those years ago.

Simple fact is that overzied AB Tengu is broken. Same as 7kms Vagas were broken. Any non nano setup trying to emulate this (faction and deadspace gear + max skilled T3 booster) would die miserably fighting that much people at same time.

Boosted oversized AB T3s are revival of old nano ships. Able to engage and disengage at will, and so having sufficient survivability to make muilti bilion isk pimp fits worth the money.
Kingzolo
Kadavr Black Guard
#38 - 2012-02-06 22:11:51 UTC
I agree its expensive - but what other ship can u pimp to this kind of crasyness?

100% hit garanteed up to 100+km - no tracking.
Up to 450+ dps.
Cant get scrambled obviously, and takes at least 3 webs to get under 1k m/s.
3.5m/s AB - 5k+ m/s OH if u shuold get in trouble.
150 Signature radius which means most ships over cruiser size wont be able to track you or catch u for the record.
tanks 450+ omni dps. which almost never is nessesary becuase no one is ever close to you and if they are they cant track you.
cap stable.


all this is even without any kind of boosters. Shocked
Stygian Knight
Blood Covenant
#39 - 2012-02-06 22:28:29 UTC
tengu is ok, no need for nerf.
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Villore Accords
#40 - 2012-02-06 22:34:33 UTC  |  Edited by: chatgris
Dztrgovac wrote:

Simple fact is that overzied AB Tengu is broken. Same as 7kms Vagas were broken. Any non nano setup trying to emulate this (faction and deadspace gear + max skilled T3 booster) would die miserably fighting that much people at same time.

Boosted oversized AB T3s are revival of old nano ships. Able to engage and disengage at will, and so having sufficient survivability to make muilti bilion isk pimp fits worth the money.


They really aren't overpowered at all: Their terrible agility makes them easy to catch. Look at this for example

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=14829964

We lost a single rupture taking down that apparently OP uncatchable tengu you complain about. About half of the ships on the killmail (all 7 in total) are 3 t1 frigates. All I had to do was wait until I saw the tengu trying to turn around (which takes forever with a 100MN AB burner), overheat my MWD in a nano drake and put my two webs on him and he went nowhere.

The people that tengu was fighting in that video were mostly poorly skilled pilots flying armor tanked close range ships. People like that are food for any kind of long range nano ship.

If anything is over (or under) powered it's close range armor ships vs nano ships with range. But that's not a tengu specific issue.