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Story help. Actual population of systems.

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Sadako Yuji
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-02-01 00:14:14 UTC
So I'm inspired to flex the old writing muscles and shell out a story at least partially in the cannon of EvE. However, I need to know (or at least have a decent guess) what the average population of any given system would be. Now to be clear I don't mean player base. What I mean is, how many human beings would be living in any given system? Given that there seem to be habitable worlds as well as moon bases and star bases combined with immortality available to virtually everyone, I can't even muster a guess. Any information or calculated guesses on this subject is greatly appreciated.

Thank you. Fly safe.

~Sadako~ Shocked
Lucius Vindictus
Arachnos
#2 - 2012-02-01 01:48:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucius Vindictus
Good question. I'm not sure how literal we are supposed to take it, but one of the chronicles mentioned that the Gallente federation alone is populated by "trillions" of people. That's quite a lot of people! On the other hand I've read news reports about the slave emancipation in the Empire where slaves are measured only in mere "millions". Given that the empire is supposedly more populous than the federation that doesn't seem consistent.

Personally I prefer the idea of huge populations, even if it's only to justify the huge amounts of ship losses suffered every day without apparent stress on the empires. Many of those ships containing multiple thousand crew each.
Kiran
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2012-02-01 19:01:50 UTC
A few years ago each world had a population stat in the show info unfortuantly it has been removed with recent updates.

At a guess I would say for Empire controlled space for each Terran and Oceananic world will be about the same as Earth is today.

Space stations are like cities in space so take New York population or London.

As for low sec and null sec it can be a bit random due to small settlements and remote outposts.
Seriphyn Inhonores
Elusenian Cooperative
#4 - 2012-02-05 21:42:15 UTC
Several trillion for both the Amarr Empire and the Gallente Federation. A couple/few trillion for Minmatar Republic (but more Minmatar outside of Republic than in it)

Hundreds of billion for Caldari.

Highsec worlds with city lights on it could be in the billions (fly to the dark side or try to view it in planetview). Worlds without city lights probably in the millions (couple million widely dispersed on lowsec worlds)

Space stations in the hundreds of thousands. Seyllin I (former barren world) had a subterranean population of 500 million, however.
CCP Abraxas
C C P
C C P Alliance
#5 - 2012-02-06 13:23:15 UTC
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:
Several trillion for both the Amarr Empire and the Gallente Federation. A couple/few trillion for Minmatar Republic (but more Minmatar outside of Republic than in it)

Hundreds of billion for Caldari.

Highsec worlds with city lights on it could be in the billions (fly to the dark side or try to view it in planetview). Worlds without city lights probably in the millions (couple million widely dispersed on lowsec worlds)

Space stations in the hundreds of thousands. Seyllin I (former barren world) had a subterranean population of 500 million, however.

Anyone feel like giving me cites for these? We may do something with population numbers as part of the Immersion Project.
Kenpachi Viktor
Perkone
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-02-06 14:04:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Kenpachi Viktor
http://freebooted.blogspot.com.au/2010/09/new-eden-is-saved.html

A war that would’ve involved 20,000 players, 75% of nullsec space, and hundreds of supercapitals was halted not by diplomacy, but by a game mechanic so dreadful that those who have experienced it previously have no desire to do so again. - Fix POS & SOV
Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
#7 - 2012-02-06 14:17:56 UTC
CCP Abraxas wrote:
Anyone feel like giving me cites for these? We may do something with population numbers as part of the Immersion Project.
Great, in my quest of finding a place of birth, I was severely challenged by the fact that I could not tell which planets are inhabited. I was/am fearful I will eventually have to retcon my background because some fiction comes out that classifies my birthplace as uninhabited.

I guess you could call this a request to return population numbers to 'Show Info' on planets/moons etc.

Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation

Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate
Seriphyn Inhonores
Elusenian Cooperative
#8 - 2012-02-06 15:03:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Seriphyn Inhonores
CCP Abraxas wrote:
Anyone feel like giving me cites for these? We may do something with population numbers as part of the Immersion Project.


Citations? I just pulled it out of thin air :D

No, but seriously, in an effort to be less lazy...

Nearly 2.8 trillion citizens voted in the election, by far the highest turnout in the history of Gallentean democracy.
http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=1296&tid=4

Assuming 60% of the population can vote, taking age and franchise considerations into account. Then assume 60% actually voted (bit of a conservative number)...that puts the GalFed's population at 7.8 trillion minimum (rounded to one decimal place)

Then consider the Amarr Empire is bigger, the Caldari State T_T about being too small...and also this little gem posted on Backstage by Kaito

http://backstage.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?topic=1642.msg20612#msg20612

In that case, he ignored non-voters. From the 7.8 trillion figure, one-third of the Federation is apparently Minmatar, so that's 2.6 trillion. One-fifth of the Minmatar in total reside in the Federation, so that's 13 trillion Minmatar in total. But only one quarter of them are in the Republic, so that's 3.25 trillion in the Republic...so...

Population of GalFed: 7.8 trillion
Population of Minmatar Republic: 3.25 trillion
Number of ethnic Minmatar overall: 13 trillion.

p.s. 60% of population being of voter age is going to be the most accurate percentile in the above case, looking at RL demographics. The 60% turnout may just be 80% instead...depending on what CCP says

EDIT - no wait i fail...more like 75% to 80% will be of voter age...if I pulled out of the US/UK demographics census...but US/UK is a poor point of reference for Fed demographics (India/Brazil would be better)...in which case, 65% to 75% can vote maybe.
Mirajane Cromwell
#9 - 2012-02-06 15:18:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Mirajane Cromwell
The number of babies born each year must be at least the same or higher than the amount of deaths on planets, in stations, in npc ships and in capsuleer ships or otherwise the population would not grow at all.

Ships' crew guidelines can be used to calculate an estimation for crew deaths per year if we know how many each type npc/capsuleer ships are destroyed yearly. I bet that's going to be some huge number...

Then estimate how many deaths happen on all habitated planets and in all stations yearly - sum everything up to get the number of babies needed for positive population growth per year. Then just multiply that number by 100 years (or whatever the maximum expected lifetime is) to get the total population... the actual number will be even higher if there's any positive population growth.
Seriphyn Inhonores
Elusenian Cooperative
#10 - 2012-02-06 15:20:24 UTC
CCP Abraxas
C C P
C C P Alliance
#11 - 2012-02-06 15:59:06 UTC
Mirajane Cromwell wrote:
The number of babies born each year must be at least the same or higher than the amount of deaths on planets, in stations, in npc ships and in capsuleer ships or otherwise the population would not grow at all.
Those survivors' rates, I, uh ...

Let's try to leave assumed ship deaths out of the equation of total New Eden population numbers if we can. I'd rather that they didn't affect the total pop. at all, and if they actually do, I am going to sit in a room with some people and shout at them until we can figure out a more sensible average survival rate. I don't see any sense in masses of people signing up for what's basically a career of suicide missions.
Seriphyn Inhonores
Elusenian Cooperative
#12 - 2012-02-06 16:34:43 UTC
CCP Abraxas wrote:
Those survivors' rates, I, uh ...

Let's try to leave assumed ship deaths out of the equation of total New Eden population numbers if we can. I'd rather that they didn't affect the total pop. at all, and if they actually do, I am going to sit in a room with some people and shout at them until we can figure out a more sensible average survival rate. I don't see any sense in masses of people signing up for what's basically a career of suicide missions.


DUST tech for ship crews?

Or did I just break the lore?
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#13 - 2012-02-06 16:55:59 UTC
You could say that pirate ships are severly understaffed hence thier laughable performance against capsuller ships.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Louella Dougans
Sovereign Hospitaller Order of Saint Katherine
#14 - 2012-02-06 18:20:59 UTC
some missions and things mention that there are many space colonies and things.

All you need is a solar collector for power, an astrofarm for food, a docking platform, habitation module for living space, and you have yourself a homestead sort of thing.

Be a Space Nun, it is fun. \o/
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#15 - 2012-02-06 19:09:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Nova Fox
You may also consider there are probably more worlds inhabitated than there are star gates going to and the only way in an out are jump freighters if they can jump to such systems but that would be cost prohibitive to live there.

It be easy and safe to say eve's population is probably in the qaudillions of humans.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Seriphyn Inhonores
Elusenian Cooperative
#16 - 2012-02-06 20:40:19 UTC
Nova Fox wrote:
It be easy and safe to say eve's population is probably in the qaudillions of humans.


I think that's a little extreme, given the numbers I have provided already. The Gallente, for example, achieved spaceflight around 500-700 years ago upon first contact with their Caldari neighbours. Their homeworld would have a population of 10 billion as a complete assumption. It's already quite a leap to go from billions to trillions, but there would definitely not be enough time to go to quadillions

Again as I pointed out, if 2.8 trillion is the highest voting turnout in the Federation, which is the second largest empire in New Eden, then we're looking at no more than 20 trillion perhaps.
Hans Zwaardhandler
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#17 - 2012-02-07 00:27:23 UTC
I would hazard a guess that we should also take into account the people who are not essentially part of space stations and planets, but in deadspace pockets... which sounds like a shoddy idea given that for missions and for probing, their must be trillions of more hidden people around here and there.

Besides that, I am more inclined to believe that the population of New Eden is in the hundreds of trillions. Nomadic Thukkers, the Sansha's Nation (can they be counted as alive?), and the cartels and pirate factions as well as ORE have to count as well, and I would say that such areas like Caldari Prime and the central worlds of these nations would have populations well above ten billion, with underwater cities as well (brought up in the fiction before).

But yes, it would be nice if we had some statistics to go on.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#18 - 2012-02-07 07:38:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Nova Fox
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:
Nova Fox wrote:
It be easy and safe to say eve's population is probably in the qaudillions of humans.


I think that's a little extreme, given the numbers I have provided already. The Gallente, for example, achieved spaceflight around 500-700 years ago upon first contact with their Caldari neighbours. Their homeworld would have a population of 10 billion as a complete assumption. It's already quite a leap to go from billions to trillions, but there would definitely not be enough time to go to quadillions

Again as I pointed out, if 2.8 trillion is the highest voting turnout in the Federation, which is the second largest empire in New Eden, then we're looking at no more than 20 trillion perhaps.


There may be plenty of freeloaders that may receive protectorateship in galletne space but cannot get themselves to a secure polling station. Voter turn out for gallente presidents could be comparatively alot lower than us electing csm members percentage wise.

Also skeleton crew size for any of our ships havent been indentified either. Or the factor that automation could go far to reduce manning on the ship until the point it becomes cost prohibitive to do so.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Ciar Meara
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#19 - 2012-02-07 13:42:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Ciar Meara
CCP Abraxas wrote:
Mirajane Cromwell wrote:
The number of babies born each year must be at least the same or higher than the amount of deaths on planets, in stations, in npc ships and in capsuleer ships or otherwise the population would not grow at all.
Those survivors' rates, I, uh ...

Let's try to leave assumed ship deaths out of the equation of total New Eden population numbers if we can. I'd rather that they didn't affect the total pop. at all, and if they actually do, I am going to sit in a room with some people and shout at them until we can figure out a more sensible average survival rate. I don't see any sense in masses of people signing up for what's basically a career of suicide missions.


Part of the lore around deaths inflicted by capsuleers is fleshed out in "the burning life" novel.

- [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow]
Velarra
#20 - 2012-02-07 18:24:09 UTC
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:
CCP Abraxas wrote:
Those survivors' rates, I, uh ...

Let's try to leave assumed ship deaths out of the equation of total New Eden population numbers if we can. I'd rather that they didn't affect the total pop. at all, and if they actually do, I am going to sit in a room with some people and shout at them until we can figure out a more sensible average survival rate. I don't see any sense in masses of people signing up for what's basically a career of suicide missions.


Or did I just break the lore?


It was possible with EMMA to calculate one's yearly npc ship kill numbers. If you took those numbers and made conservative npc fleet comp estimates, referenced these numbers with current ccp published survival rates for mundane vessels.....

The last year the Sansha have been incursing & uplifting people (arguably killing or at least removing people from their normal lives & making them zombies...) has nothing on 1 MR in a year of mission running in a pre-agent quality change new eden. That's just 1 MR. Multiply this by several hundred. Or, say several thousand. Over one year. Multiply these values over 5yrs, 7 years.

This is only factoring a handful of mission hubs.

Include plexes, Include asteroid belts, Pirate faction mission running. Consider the number of Sansha being killed in Vanguard sites due to protracted attrition driven warfare sponsored by Concord (re: the IC consequences of VG farming in shiny ships & resulting protracted incursions).

The amount of death if published numbers up to now are accurate, - that caspuleers are responsible for is nothing short of staggering.
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