Science & Industry

Christ, why do people continually get into pissing matches over T2 BPO's? If you don't have one or if you do, it doesn't matter. * It is what it is. *

So you have two options, either buy one off of contracts or do invention. Either way, nothing you gripe over on the forums is going to change that.

And all this happened before you joined EvE in October of last year. So why does it matter to you?

Moreover, there is still an opportunity cost equal to their free market value to keeping them rather than selling them, and with a return on investment time of 4-8 years, it seems a little silly you cry about them now, especially when, with much less capital investment, you can make much more ISK from invention.

You also don't seem to understand how the lottery worked, but since that game mechanic's been out of the game for years, I don't feel like fixing that.

ROI on an item that costs nothing. is not 4 years it is instant yet again let me spell this out in capitals for the morons.

TECH II BPO ROI IS INSTANT. TECH II BPO WERE GIVEN FOR FREE. THEY WERE NOT BOUGHT THEY WERE FREE! MAKING ANY ROI INSTANT. TECHII BPO WERE GIVEN TO CCP PET PLAYERS IN AN UNFAIR MANNER WHICH HAS MASSIVELY EFFECTED THE GAME DYNAMIC.

Serously what is the point in fighting CCP's pet allinces or corps? CCP will just reinburse their losses anyway making most of null sec SOV a massive waste of time for new players who don't have CCP's blessings or massive game advantages.

Do some people have an advantage, when it comes to making certain T2 items? yes.

On the other hand, I think many people fail to realise the sheer scale of manufacturing in Eve.

https://twitter.com/#!/CCP_Diagoras

in January 2012, 151,619 T2 cargo expanders were built.

Each of those took at /least/ 24 minutes to make.

1 BPO could churn out 60 a day. around 1800 a month. Or a little over 1% of the total made. at around 4 thousand isk less per run. Though you'll probably want to double the cost to the manufacture, to cover invention costs. Around 200k a unit for an inventor, and 100k for a BPO owner. selling for 500k to 600k

Sure. They get a nice benefit. But it doesn't kill the market.


Oh, and for the hard of understanding, T2 BPO ROI is only instant for the people that got them from the lottery. For anyone else (say, the people who buy them from the people that won them in the lottery) the ROI is miniscule.

I've enjoyed your posts, but I think it's time to call it what it is before this thread becomes totally unsalvageable.

On the subject of T2 BPO's though, if you look at them with a broad perspecitve you can see why CCP has made no move to change them. You can see why CCP have never spoken out strongly against their existance, but have spoken in regret about the lottery that distributed them. You can also see why they are a generally positive part of the game:

1. They form a part of the late-game content for a subset of EVE players, noteably those that seek to gather wealth, involve themselves heavily in long term industrial projects or like to collect or trade rare items. This subset is largely populated by long term EVE subscribers, players that achieve things within the game and help create significant content for other players.

2. Their impact on the market for popular T2 items is not harmfull. Invention is an accessible, profitable and scaleable alternative for any item that sells well.

3. Any negative impact they have on the market for unpopular T2 items is chiefly an issue with the unpopularity of the item rather than an issue with T2 BPOs. It would make more sense for CCP to fix the unpopular items (as we have seen recently) to make them popular rather than do anything else, particularly since the items in question have such a low volume that they would not occupy a significant number of inventors even if T2 BPO did not exist.

4. Possibly the most significant impact that T2 BPOs have, is on the forums. It is a constant supply of forum activity. You might say that the negative posting on the subject of T2 BPOs would be a bad thing, but someone who is going to troll, whine and splurge on an internet spaceships forum is going to do so no matter what... changing T2 BPOs will not improve these people's posting one bit.

So basically, there is no significant problem for which removing T2 BPOs is a solution.

Well, good thing that the deafening roar of the CRAPLOAD OF MONEY I made via invention and T2 manufacturing is drowning out the stupid.

You know what else has instant infinite ROI?

a) Mining. You do it mostly AFK, therefore the minerals are essentially free.
b) Mission loot. You looted as you were on the field anyway, killing rats. That makes it pretty much free.
c) PI. It's AFK income, made from thin air. The materials came from nothing, you paid some in taxes, the rest of it is yipee free!
d) Datacores. Enough said!

...owait.

Anyway, for the OP: don't bother selling T2 BPC's, the market for them is pretty terrible (if you can build the item, it basically means that you can invent it, minus an Encryption Methods skill). You need to be able to make copies of BPOs in order to run invention jobs on them, and for that you'll either need access to a POS with labs, or to do some looking around for places with short-ish wait times on public copy lines. Hop regions, check installations, make notes.You also have to be careful to make sure and include invention cost in your total expeditures based on chance and datacore cost. And don't be bothered by the fact that some players have T2 BPOs, by and large they don't make that big of an impact on many, many items. Just be careful, do your math, and keep your numbers up to date.

Holding T2 BPOs includes a substantial risk. They are valuable exactly as long as they...

- Are no longer obtainable.
- Exist in the game.
- Have certain differences in manufacturing vs. invention.
- Are used to manufacture the "best buildable version" of a module that is widely used by players.

CCP could change any of these things at any time. They could be removed, they could be made obtainable again, they could be superseded by T3 modules or Invention could be tweaked substantially (Invention already offers massive throughput advantages and even a fairly small change in manufacturing variables could cut deeply into T2 BPO value)

..at which point their market value will take a nosedive. This is also in addition to the fact that T2 BPO market isn't exactly liquid - that blue thingy may be, in theory, worth tens or hundreds of billions, yet if you want to sell it anywhere close to the market value, it will take considerable time. Very few just have that much liquid ISK at hand, even if they would be on the market for such an investment.

I'm not saying CCP will do any of these things or even that CCP should do any of these things - just that CCP theoretically could do any of these things so plonking down tens of billions for a T2 BPO carries a substantial risk.

Yes, as long as they are not re-introduced into the game through some means, they will retain some collectability value, yet on the most prized and most valuable T2 BPOs, most of that value is based on the potential ROI over a long period of time. T2 BPOs do not make a lot of ISK (relatively speaking) but they provide a constant stream of "passive" ISK for their holders with fairly little time investment. Yet they do so only at the whim of CCP.

Why is it that whenever I post a legitimate question the topic ALWAYS erupts into argument. :(

Those BPOs are going for 10 years profits. I'm not even sure there will still be an EvE in 10 years. There's a whole lot of risk there that CCP will do something in the meantime. Hell by that point faction might be common enough to obsolete T2.

Please continue to keep believing this, and remember to tell all your friends, too!

(My inventor/manufacturer alt's wallet thanks you for your selfless service.)

E: [/Sarcasm]