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Mining Boats and Agility
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Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-02-03 08:41:19 UTC
Is staying aligned while mining too tedious for you? That's too bad.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Griptus
Doomheim
#22 - 2012-02-03 11:42:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Griptus
It's not just the align time. Agility also includes rate of acceleration.

YES, mining barges need at least 2x better agility. +1
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#23 - 2012-02-03 20:51:57 UTC
ah yes, mining ships need to align like dramiels while being capable of being tanked up to 250k ehp

get real

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#24 - 2012-02-03 21:11:35 UTC
Andski wrote:
ah yes, mining ships need to align like dramiels while being capable of being tanked up to 250k ehp

get real


2/10.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-02-03 23:51:27 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Andski wrote:
ah yes, mining ships need to align like dramiels while being capable of being tanked up to 250k ehp

get real


2/10.


problem is i'm not trolling

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Xolve
State War Academy
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-02-03 23:55:43 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:

Tier 1 barges should align in maybe 3-4 seconds. Yes, they should be comparable to frigates as far as agility goes. That's the least you can do for them with their utterly pathetic mining yield.


ITT: Tengu's are less efficient then Abaddons, some lowsec scrublord talks about mining.
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#27 - 2012-02-04 00:20:22 UTC
Quote:
problem is i'm not trolling


That's a little bit depressing, actually.

Quote:
ITT: Tengu's are less efficient then Abaddons, some lowsec scrublord talks about mining.


A Tengu is not going to output more than about 700 DPS while costing several times as much as a battleship...and that's assuming it is not covert ops fit, which lowsec Tengus very often are, which puts their damage output in "pathetic" range. Even those tengus that aren't covert fit usually fit that way when traveling between systems.

Tengus can of course tank way harder thanks to their cruiser-sized speed and sig, which makes them a bit better for some of the harder exploration plexes but unless supreme tanking is necessary, BSes are better.
Xolve
State War Academy
Caldari State
#28 - 2012-02-04 00:35:49 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:

A Tengu is not going to output more than about 700 DPS while costing several times as much as a battleship...and that's assuming it is not covert ops fit, which lowsec Tengus very often are, which puts their damage output in "pathetic" range. Even those tengus that aren't covert fit usually fit that way when traveling between systems.

Tengus can of course tank way harder thanks to their cruiser-sized speed and sig, which makes them a bit better for some of the harder exploration plexes but unless supreme tanking is necessary, BSes are better.



First off, Tengu's don't really need modules to tank any PvE content outside of incursions, all the need to do is orbit something and activate their MWD, their signature radius is soo small, nothing but frigates are going to hit them.

Your comparison was PvE (Plexing, Ratting, or Mission running) Tengu's we're less efficient then Triple Plated abaddons (that sacrifice most of their low slots for tank, and skip over heat sinks) that are more then likely fit with Tachyons, got news for you brosef, Tachy Baddons don't do 700 dps. Max skilled tengu's (depending on mods) can do upwards of 950+ dps (counting in Spec V).

Your also skipping over little things like in plex travel time, you really think an Abaddon is going to beat a Tengu to a gate? I hope they serve beer in this paradise dream-world you live in. Theres a travel fit Tengu, and then theres everything else; fitting a ship for traveling through otherwise hostile space is to ensure survivability, not efficiency, although it is possible to do things with covert t3's.
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#29 - 2012-02-04 00:53:13 UTC
Quote:
Your comparison was PvE (Plexing, Ratting, or Mission running) Tengu's we're less efficient then Triple Plated abaddons (that sacrifice most of their low slots for tank, and skip over heat sinks) that are more then likely fit with Tachyons, got news for you brosef, Tachy Baddons don't do 700 dps. Max skilled tengu's (depending on mods) can do upwards of 950+ dps (counting in Spec V).


...Can you give a reasonable Tengu fit that does 950+ DPS? And I didn't mean to compare them directly with plated abaddons as far as PVE goes. My point was that you could take a slow battleship, slap three plates that make it way slower, and it would still enter warp faster than a mining barge.


Quote:
Your also skipping over little things like in plex travel time, you really think an Abaddon is going to beat a Tengu to a gate? I hope they serve beer in this paradise dream-world you live in. Theres a travel fit Tengu, and then theres everything else; fitting a ship for traveling through otherwise hostile space is to ensure survivability, not efficiency, although it is possible to do things with covert t3's.


People DO do things in covert t3s, though, and even if T3s are slightly more efficient than battleships at running any given set of PVE content, the cost of losing it (which will eventually happen) generally makes up for it.

Regardless, the 16 second align time on mining barges ensures that even if they catch something on dscan before it lands near them, they have virtually no chance of escaping it. Are you seriously arguing that having align time worse than battleships does not hurt their survivability in lowsec? If so, would you argue against the common knowledge that frigates are easy to survive in lowsec with than battleships?
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#30 - 2012-02-04 04:08:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
the problem is that you want mining ships to turn on a dime

make friends or deal with it (i.e. stay aligned)

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#31 - 2012-02-04 05:35:14 UTC
In truth, OP I have little problem getting a hulk out of a belt if I think there is trouble in a system. You don't wait for them to be on grid to dock up. If there is an unkown in local, you dock up. The trouble is, much like the propagoonda troll brigade, once they are there, they never go away so "if" you make it out, "if" you blob up and put the run to local hostiles, "if" you cut through the 300 other but, but, but, we always have an excuse in EVE, excuses you still have the hulk in a hangar 99% of the time.

Barge Mining is for deep null Ops with 50 Hulks and a Rorq that can shut down all rocks in 20 minutes or high sec bots and variations to the null op with some Orca back up. I've done null mining Ops. They are fast, they are clean, they were always for a communist style corp and not you and me and they never got raided.
Kiroma Halandri
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2012-02-04 05:51:48 UTC
Just give them higher agility, they will need it. Not just for the aligning speed, but also for the accelerationg and deceleration.

In addition, maybe giving them some extra Warp Strength would help incase you run into some jackass with a Warp Scrambler (like me).
[center]I'm not Anti-Social,    **I just don't like you.[/center]**
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#33 - 2012-02-04 22:13:33 UTC
Quote:
the problem is that you want mining ships to turn on a dime


My proposed change would give hulks/covetors the align time of a hurricane.

the only ship that would align "On a dime" with my proposed changes are the Procurer and Skiff, which have such awful mining yield that they are pretty much useless even with the align time of a frigate.


Quote:
Just give them higher agility, they will need it. Not just for the aligning speed, but also for the accelerationg and deceleration.


Align time is a measure of agility.
Quote:

In truth, OP I have little problem getting a hulk out of a belt if I think there is trouble in a system. You don't wait for them to be on grid to dock up. If there is an unkown in local, you dock up. The trouble is, much like the propagoonda troll brigade, once they are there, they never go away so "if" you make it out, "if" you blob up and put the run to local hostiles, "if" you cut through the 300 other but, but, but, we always have an excuse in EVE, excuses you still have the hulk in a hangar 99% of the time.

Barge Mining is for deep null Ops with 50 Hulks and a Rorq that can shut down all rocks in 20 minutes or high sec bots and variations to the null op with some Orca back up. I've done null mining Ops. They are fast, they are clean, they were always for a communist style corp and not you and me and they never got raided.


Why should mining only viable in deep nullsec?
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