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Is there any point to expensive ships with tech 2 fits?

Author
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-02-02 22:24:00 UTC
I've been looking to upgrade my mission running ship but I appear to have some sort of allergy to the prices of most faction and deadspace mods, causing me to break out in fits of incoherent rage coupled with the insistence that "Tech 2 is just fine". But my results thus far when trying to put that into practice are less than spectacular. So I'm now wondering, is there any point to trying to fit something like a Tengu or CNR using only T2 mods at best? Would the performance of a Mach or Vargur drop to the point of being very much not worth while?
Ayeshah Volfield
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2012-02-02 22:30:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Ayeshah Volfield
As far as my experience goes, if going for cheap, at least invest in faction gyros/BCU and T2 Dmg Rigs. The DPS increase is worth it and significant enough. Higher DPS = higher isk/hour and ability to remove threats from grid FAST is part of your tank.

Shield boosters are your next priority but, if you play smart, you can finish any mission with standard T2's. Most people tend to overtank their ships anyway.

EVE is what happens when the rule of law does not apply and Darwinism is allowed to run freely.

Linda Shadowborn
Dark Steel Industries
#3 - 2012-02-02 22:48:41 UTC
Some pimping is fine, damage mods being nr 1 for sure. next armour or shield repper.

I have flown pure t2 malestromes and multi billion isk tengus. Honestly, i found that a decent repper and 3 faction damage mods is all i really need on any ship for just missions. Sure the rest is nice dont get me wrong BUT it really isnt worth it in my oppinion. Your milage may vary, i know some that run ships that makes my old tengu look cheap....

and you know power to them BUT be aware you are always a gank or a bad connection away from a loss.

So in general i stick to cheaper ships that still do them very easily. my nightmare is all t2 apart from the heat sinks and she snores through missions, so instead i have way more isk to feed my pvp alt with so she can get her damnations and lokis blown up.
Mike712
Tenth Plague of Egypt
#4 - 2012-02-02 23:18:21 UTC
I agree, first mods to pimp are damage mods, then booster/rep, they make the largest difference to any fit.

It's obvious why you'd invest in faction damage mods.

A decent shield booster/armor rep means you can often use less slots on tank/cap and more on increasing damage.

While a CNR, Mach, Vargur or tengu will work perfectly well without any faction and be better than a cheap hull, spending a few hundred mil on some mods that will dramatically increase performance is certainly worth it.

Regards, Mike712 The BattleClinic Team

Jesus Rambo
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2012-02-03 00:08:20 UTC
On my tengu, I chose to pimp tank first, then damage, just because I prefer overtanking and being on the safe side. Of course, I also ended up just pimping both...

Anyways, I pimp my PvE boats because it's fun to me to fly around in really goddamn expensive ships and rat in them. Sure, half the stuff I have could be replaced with T2/cheaper faction for negligible loss in effectiveness, but I like spending my money :D
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#6 - 2012-02-03 00:59:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Tengu:
* T2 fit: Must keep moving at all times. Can pull most of a room, but have to be careful, and nuke webbers ASAP.
* Faction / deadspace: Can pull the entire room and "safely" (beware ganks) go for a bathroom break or answer the phone.

Raven / Raven Navy Issue:
* Not a lot of difference. Primarily for fitting. Somewhat faster mission completion.
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2012-02-03 01:11:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Substantia Nigra
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Tengu:
* Faction / deadspace: Can pull the entire room and "safely" (beware ganks) go for a bathroom break or answer the phone.


Absolutely! A pimped-tengu is an entirely different beastie. A T2-fit tengu is a very nice utility PvE (etc) ship but there are things that you can only do by introducing words like gist, pith and the like.
A well setup (not at all cheap) tengu can sit there and solo tank four elite sleeper battleships (e.g. C4 sites), and slowly kill them while I go for a coffee or a pee. A lonesome T2-fit tengu does not survive that onslaught, even if moving.

If all you're worrying about is lvl4 missions then a T2-fit tengu, mebbe with some CN BCUs if you're feeling extravagant, is just fine. If you're wanting to push the envelope with that neat little ship, then some serious loving can turn her into a marvellous and truly beautiful thing.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.

Marcus Henik
Rules of Acquisition
#8 - 2012-02-03 01:35:04 UTC
My t 2 tengu is fine for lvl4s I priced the bling and decided it wasn't worth the extra dough to shave a few mins off each mission. I found that money was better spent on implants.
Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#9 - 2012-02-03 15:58:50 UTC
I think pimped mission ships is what happens if you do missions but don't do PvP?.... you start stock-piling ISK and it burns a hole in your pocket and you buy more and more expensive modules for your mission boat.

One day it get's ganked and you will probably come on the forums to cry but you will find no sympathy.

My advice is to take the ISK you would spend on a pimped mission boat and buy a load of mid-ranged ships to blow up PvPing.

Roll

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com

Nalha Saldana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-02-03 18:06:47 UTC
Its all about knowing what is worth getting and what isn't. The right tool for the job.
I learned a lot about faction mods by using the comparison tool that you find under Variations in the info windows on mods, you should try it.
Rath Kelbore
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-02-03 19:20:56 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
I've been looking to upgrade my mission running ship but I appear to have some sort of allergy to the prices of most faction and deadspace mods, causing me to break out in fits of incoherent rage coupled with the insistence that "Tech 2 is just fine". But my results thus far when trying to put that into practice are less than spectacular. So I'm now wondering, is there any point to trying to fit something like a Tengu or CNR using only T2 mods at best? Would the performance of a Mach or Vargur drop to the point of being very much not worth while?


From experience, a t2 CNR is better than a T2 fit Raven, a bit better. Does the CNR do alot better with faction/deadspace mods? Yes. Does a regular raven do a lot better with faction/deadspace mods? Yes.

If you pimp fit a normal raven, then pimp fit a CNR, the cnr will be a bit better.

If you t2 fit a raven, then t2 fit a CNR, the cnr will be a bit better.

So the question is, how much do you want to spend and how much better than a regular t2 raven(or whatever) are you going for?

I plan on living forever.......so far, so good.

MadMuppet
Critical Mass Inc
#12 - 2012-02-03 20:00:04 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
I've been looking to upgrade my mission running ship but I appear to have some sort of allergy to the prices of most faction and deadspace mods, causing me to break out in fits of incoherent rage coupled with the insistence that "Tech 2 is just fine". But my results thus far when trying to put that into practice are less than spectacular. So I'm now wondering, is there any point to trying to fit something like a Tengu or CNR using only T2 mods at best? Would the performance of a Mach or Vargur drop to the point of being very much not worth while?


I very rarely run with anything but T2 on my ships as it tends to attract unwanted attention from gankers. You do get better results from the nicer parts, but in my opinion T2 is good enough for missioning. For example: My Macharial is nothing special, but I can still clear L4s a LOT faster than I could hope for in a Maelstrom. Because I prefer to be cap stable I only have 3 Gyros and 2 Tracking enhancers and they are all the T2 versions, not the big buck items.

The common argument with something like a Machariel is that you should be able to kill everything before you need to worry about your tank. This is then followed by a lot of posturing, EFTing with 'all Vs' and faction ammo, rectally deployed DPS numbers, and a lot of 'you suck at Eve' commentary. True, if you want to dump 3 billion in parts in to your 1 billion ship you can. I try to have a more causal and non-grinding view of Eve, I drop a couple hundred million in to my billion isk hull and just enjoy it. Having lost a couple Machariels from game related issues I can tell you that the sting is a hell of a lot less in a cheap fit.

I think the only named thing I use on my Loki is a Sisters Probe Launcher and Probes.

The hulls alone give you a huge bonus and that bonus is not lost on using non-faction hardware. However if you can afford it you can get that hull bonus to be a lot nicer with faction/officer stuff.

This message brought to you by Experience(tm). When common sense fails you, experience will come to the rescue. Experience(tm) from the makers of CONCORD.

"If you are part of the problem, you will be nerfed." -MadMuppet

MadMuppet
Critical Mass Inc
#13 - 2012-02-03 20:39:16 UTC  |  Edited by: MadMuppet
Stupid forum

This message brought to you by Experience(tm). When common sense fails you, experience will come to the rescue. Experience(tm) from the makers of CONCORD.

"If you are part of the problem, you will be nerfed." -MadMuppet

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-02-03 22:53:54 UTC
Nalha Saldana wrote:
Its all about knowing what is worth getting and what isn't. The right tool for the job.
I learned a lot about faction mods by using the comparison tool that you find under Variations in the info windows on mods, you should try it.

I'm fully aware of the compare tool; the difference in stats around specific modules isn't the focus of my question. Rather I was more curious about trying to fit one of the better mission ships while remaining entirely withing the exception to the rule of "linear increases in performance cause exponential increases in price" that is created by tech 2 mods. I've looked at a number of fits that seem easily workable, but looking at those compared to most of the highly recommended fits either here or in BC I wonder if it allows the hull to really perform to it's worth. Judging from the other on topic responses it seems the answer leans more toward "no with a but", rather than "yes with an if" for the most part.

That being the case, any recommendations on a specific hull that does well with a cheap fit?
Sicex
#15 - 2012-02-03 23:39:29 UTC
For BC's use a Harbinger, versatile and deadly.

For BS's use a Geddon, cheap, deadly and comparable to most other BS's in dps and tank.

If you use missiles, just go with the Drake / Raven thing that everyone uses.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2012-02-03 23:49:45 UTC
Sicex wrote:
For BC's use a Harbinger, versatile and deadly.

For BS's use a Geddon, cheap, deadly and comparable to most other BS's in dps and tank.

If you use missiles, just go with the Drake / Raven thing that everyone uses.

Sorry, should have been more specific. The hull itself doesn't need to be cheap, but something that could run lvl 4's efficiently with a tech 2 only fit. looking for something to take time to train into so being skill intensive is fine. Mostly going against Serpentis.
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#17 - 2012-02-04 06:48:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Against serpentis you'll want either a railgun vindi or AC mach....either will work well. Assuming gallente space, where most serpentis missions are found, I'd take a mach, simply because there's a significant helping of angel missions there as well, and you can change your damage type accordingly.

thhief ghabmoef

Bruce Kemp
Best Kept Dunked
Train Wreck.
#18 - 2012-02-04 13:32:05 UTC
Wacktopia wrote:
I think pimped mission ships is what happens if you do missions but don't do PvP?.... you start stock-piling ISK and it burns a hole in your pocket and you buy more and more expensive modules for your mission boat.

One day it get's ganked and you will probably come on the forums to cry but you will find no sympathy.

My advice is to take the ISK you would spend on a pimped mission boat and buy a load of mid-ranged ships to blow up PvPing.

Roll


Well said Wack. Cool
Cindy Marco
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2012-02-04 16:30:27 UTC
T2 is perfectly fine for missions. Especially when you consider that it only takes ~5 Tornadoes to alpha a Marauder.
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba
Crunchy Crunchy
#20 - 2012-02-04 16:54:29 UTC
What will you spend all your isk on if you don't eventually go to faction/deadspace mods? I normally fit T2 at first on a ship to see how I like it then go to faction if I think I'll keep using it for a while.
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