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'Backdating' Lapsed skill training time.
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Dimitri Jackal
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-02-02 21:29:40 UTC
Jesus, another moron who thinks that buying SP would EVER be supported by the community. Hell no.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#22 - 2012-02-02 21:33:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
iNfeck7ed wrote:
Mag's wrote:
I'll have to say no. Buying SP, not matter what the reasoning, is a bad idea for all the reasons stated in the past.


quiet peasant, people with jobs who support this game you probably paid your whole eve life with plex which doesn't help ccp advance its software or hardware are thinking, shoosh.

support the buying of back-logged sp
Good god, is that the best you can do? Come out with some ad hominem to justify what is and always will be, a bad idea?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Grimdragon420
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2012-02-03 04:38:29 UTC
I support it as a 2008 character with 17.6 million SP. Maybe they just limit it to main characters with at least 1 yr of SP?
Amy Amarr
Doomheim
#24 - 2012-02-03 07:26:20 UTC
As grim said above me. Limitation and or perhaps a loss of SP so you only receive x amount from each year.

Thus creating a limit that each person could acquire.

For Example.

If you could afford to run your account you get x amount of SP over x amount of years

But a person with only the ability to pay now and then could back date and receive a penalty of losing two thirds of the SP due to being inactive.

This would remove the urge to 'farm' inactive accounts and give people who cannot afford it a shade of the SP that they could have acquired if they had been able to run the account full time.
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#25 - 2012-02-03 11:57:24 UTC
mxzf wrote:
So you're saying I should create a dozen trial accounts and then let them unsub and just wait for the next FotM and bring them back and pay a bit to instantly train them up to whatever the current FotM is with the pile of SP it gets.

Yeah, no, if you can't pay for the account, you don't train, no 'backdating' SP. If you can do that then I demand the ability to backdate education in RL, so the people who skipped college to work can instantly catch back up with everyone else their age. Oh ... wait ... learning doesn't work that way ... (yeah, it is a RL->Eve analogy, but it does point out how stupid the concept is)


Well, EVE skill training system is almost, but not quite, entirely unlike anything you could learn in RL so let's not bring it up.

To the point, I don't think it would be so much game breaking. Yes, dozen dormant accounts is different than dozen of accounts being actively kept. It's delayed choice: I could reactivate one or not. But buying trained character is also a form of such delayed choice. The only actual difference would be having those raw SPs to spend, and personally I like this idea. (2005 toon flying titan? if I can buy titan pilot then this problem is moot).

As for it not being too easy, first, my understanding of original idea would be that the price paid would have to cover for full period of inactivity. It's anyone's assessment whether spending couple of hundreds, or maybe thousand, of bucks is acceptable or not but I think it's not peanuts in any case (my wild guess is that people for whom it IS peanuts don't actually play this game).

Also I'd propose that instead of incurring artificial penalties it would suffice if the amount of SP granted would be the LOWEST possible amount to have trained by this time. You know, assuming trainig with minimal attributes in area and without implants. The reason being that if you're interested in having good skills then better you keep your character active and maintained.
XXSketchxx
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#26 - 2012-02-03 13:39:25 UTC
Next time you take a break, just biomass yourself. Now you won't have to worry about any lapsed time and we won't have to read about your terrible idea.
XXSketchxx
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#27 - 2012-02-03 13:41:29 UTC
iNfeck7ed wrote:
Mag's wrote:
I'll have to say no. Buying SP, not matter what the reasoning, is a bad idea for all the reasons stated in the past.


quiet peasant, people with jobs who support this game you probably paid your whole eve life with plex which doesn't help ccp advance its software or hardware are thinking, shoosh.

support the buying of back-logged sp



Haha this guy is mad.

Sounds kinda space poor too.
Valea Silpha
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2012-02-03 15:32:34 UTC
I understand the idea of wanting people who stopped playing be able to come back into eve and not be stuck having to retrain for the current popular ships.

However, the answer to that is in balancing ships so that all of the skill trees are viable rather than providing people with backdated SP. As things stand today, if you left with any half decent t2 skills, when you come back you will be able to achieve something worthwhile.

As various people have pointed out, the concept of having free SP to spend for time unsubbed is terrible. There is no way that this couldn't be abused.

However, I would support the idea of you accruing free training time while you account is subbed, but no character is in training, so that you can either bank training time while you are on break or that if you forgot to set a skill you don't lose time.

The OPs idea is bad though. Really bad.
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#29 - 2012-02-03 17:33:15 UTC
Valea Silpha wrote:
As various people have pointed out, the concept of having free SP to spend for time unsubbed is terrible. There is no way that this couldn't be abused.


I don't get it. How would it be abused? I mean, of those three situations (numbers pulled out of my ass; might be sligthly off):

1. Proposed idea: account dormant for 2 years, upon reactivation and paying back 2 year subscription receives 40 mil SP to use.

2. Character incubation: not actively playing, just paying subscription for 2 years and maintaining skill queue, because of implants and attribute remaps gaining 50 mil SP in trained skills.

3. Buying 2 years old, 50 mil SP toon.

How is it that the #1 is exploitable and game breaking while others are not?
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#30 - 2012-02-03 17:45:55 UTC
hmskrecik wrote:
How is it that the #1 is exploitable and game breaking while others are not?


Because 1 lets you instantly put points into whatever you want and completely skill for something in an instant. 2 and 3 force either you or the seller of the char to constantly make decisions over the course of two years and live with those decisions when FotM changes.

2 and 3 reward forward-thinking and planning out what you want to train, 1 rewards dumping a bunch of cash into the char and getting an instant FotM char.
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#31 - 2012-02-03 18:08:23 UTC
mxzf wrote:
hmskrecik wrote:
How is it that the #1 is exploitable and game breaking while others are not?


Because 1 lets you instantly put points into whatever you want and completely skill for something in an instant. 2 and 3 force either you or the seller of the char to constantly make decisions over the course of two years and live with those decisions when FotM changes.

2 and 3 reward forward-thinking and planning out what you want to train, 1 rewards dumping a bunch of cash into the char and getting an instant FotM char.


OK. I see your point. But isn't it enough that such dumping would effect in lower total SP than with normal training?

Mind you we're not talking about artificially pumping a character (like 2 years old to have more SP than 4 years one), just giving some handicap. And the pool of existing but inactive accounts is limited, no matter what size it actually is.

Besides, even if I now activate dozen of accounts with intention of keeping them dormant for 2 years, isn't it such forward thinking the scam-ridden EVE is famous and proud of? ;)
Zillz
Doomheim
#32 - 2012-02-03 18:45:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Zillz
Mag's wrote:
Olive Juice wrote:
Mag's wrote:
I'll have to say no. Buying SP, not matter what the reasoning, is a bad idea for all the reasons stated in the past.


Except for buying skills that are on a character?
Characters bought and sold have had the time spent on them and are the result of choices made over time. The whole point of skill levels, is so you have to decided is it worth train that skill to level 5, or should I train other stuff to level 4?

No matter what excuse is used to justify buying SP, it all boils down to the same thing. The removal of those decisions and consequences.

Buying a char comes with them, buying SP does not.


Not empty quoting.
Jasp3r
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#33 - 2012-02-04 18:23:02 UTC
I definitely agree with skill buyback for players resubscribing. It will attract players back which can only be a good thing. Full price, money only and limited to 6 months would be fine by me.
Amy Amarr
Doomheim
#34 - 2012-02-04 19:21:17 UTC
Bingo jasper's struck a good point. make a limitation of how far you can backdate your skill points 6months to a year maximum will enable you to 'catch up' with others of your characters age group slighty.

But would not induce 'farming' inactive accounts for the use of backdating all your sp into a nommy titan or something of that ilk.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#35 - 2012-02-04 19:53:50 UTC
Amy Amarr wrote:
Bingo jasper's struck a good point. make a limitation of how far you can backdate your skill points 6months to a year maximum will enable you to 'catch up' with others of your characters age group slighty.

But would not induce 'farming' inactive accounts for the use of backdating all your sp into a nommy titan or something of that ilk.
It's not a good point, because it still involves buying SP.

Again it boils down to consequences. Don't keep your account active, you lose training time. If you wish to keep gaining SP, then pay to keep your account running.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#36 - 2012-02-04 19:56:00 UTC
hmskrecik wrote:
OK. I see your point. But isn't it enough that such dumping would effect in lower total SP than with normal training?


Yes, because any dumping of skill points onto a character, however small or large, is abusable; and if there's one thing I know about Eve, it's that people will abuse the crap out of anything they can, however they can.

And I do understand Jasp3r's point about returning chars wanting to 'catch up', but Eve is supposed to have consequences, and a "whoops, I really did want those SP after all" button is completely contrary to the whole mindset of Eve. This is the same situation as the "let me delete skills and re-use the SP" threads, it might be kinda nice for some people, but it would be abused to no end by others, and the abuse would be worse than the benefits.

tl;dr: There are certainly valid(ish) desires for this, I can understand how someone would want the SP that they could have had, but the abuse of the system would far outweigh any and all possible benefits. That's really what I see as the bottom line, that it would hurt Eve more than it would help it.
Amy Amarr
Doomheim
#37 - 2012-02-04 19:59:03 UTC
So you're saying that if someone had to move country like I did and then have no broadband for a year, But the money to pay for an eve sub we cant backdate even though we would have paid for a sub if we were able to download the client?

Even though we would be paying for a full years subscription?
Jasp3r
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#38 - 2012-02-04 20:03:28 UTC
How about...

When resubscribing, players get the option to pay the full amount since they left and then they get a module that doubles the training time for that period going forward.

So, you don't get an instant win (which rules out the flavour of the month issue) and have to plan and queue skills in the same way for the next 1-6 months... they just training at twice the speed.

From the perspective of the re-subbing player, it still takes away the feeling of training time lost.
Jasp3r
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#39 - 2012-02-04 20:04:34 UTC
Sorry, module = Cerebral Accelerator
Mag's
Azn Empire
#40 - 2012-02-04 20:06:25 UTC
Amy Amarr wrote:
So you're saying that if someone had to move country like I did and then have no broadband for a year, But the money to pay for an eve sub we cant backdate even though we would have paid for a sub if we were able to download the client?

Even though we would be paying for a full years subscription?

Your personal circumstance, has absolutely no bearing on this idea.

But I will say one thing. Where there's a will, there's a way. Blink

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.