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Further evidence that Minmatar is overpowered, and Gallente underpowered

Author
DarkAegix
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2011-09-18 12:40:44 UTC
Because I was exceedingly bored I decide to add up the T2 resists of each race.
Minmatar: 417.5
Caldari: 408.75
Amarr: 405
Gallente: 366

Minmatar is on top, of course. Gallente is at the bottom, as expected. Minmatar have their Vagabonds, while Gallente have their Diemosts.

On a side note, the Cyclone, Claymore and Sleipnir all have one extra slot compared to their counterparts.
Damnation = 17 slots
Sleipnir = 18 slots

*sigh*
Aamrr
#2 - 2011-09-18 13:02:41 UTC
In before "different ships are different, you can't just compare stats like that, we lose damage to falloff" etc.

That said, I agree with you. It really is quite ridiculous. We'd all be infinitely better off if they had just nerfed scorch and called it a day.
1-Up Mushroom
Doomheim
#3 - 2011-09-18 13:35:47 UTC
DarkAegix wrote:

Damnation = 17 slots
Sleipnir = 18 slots


lol

Damnation is amarr and not the equiv. to the Sleip, the Absolution is equiv. to the Sleip

Your looking for the Astarte


And as stated before you can't just add up resists like that
5 Days In A Week... 4 Seasons In A Year... 3 Colors In A Stoplight... 2 Hemispheres On The Earth... ONLY 1-UP MUSHROOM!!!
DarkAegix
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2011-09-18 13:47:58 UTC
1-Up Mushroom wrote:
Damnation is amarr and not the equiv. to the Sleip, the Absolution is equiv. to the Sleip

I'm terribly sorry.
Sleipnir = 18 slots
Absolution = 17 slots
Is that better? My point remains.

Also, that was a side note and I was comparing Minmatar to all other races rather than specifically Gallente.
Kesshisan
#5 - 2011-09-18 14:06:01 UTC
DarkAegix wrote:
Also, that was a side note and I was comparing Minmatar to all other races rather than specifically Gallente.


"Further evidence that Minmatar is overpowered, and Gallente underpowered"

You can see where the confusion stems from, can't you?
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2011-09-18 14:38:18 UTC
DarkAegix wrote:
Because I was exceedingly bored I decide to add up the T2 resists of each race.
Minmatar: 417.5
Caldari: 408.75
Amarr: 405
Gallente: 366

Minmatar is on top, of course. Gallente is at the bottom, as expected. Minmatar have their Vagabonds, while Gallente have their Diemosts.

On a side note, the Cyclone, Claymore and Sleipnir all have one extra slot compared to their counterparts.
Damnation = 17 slots
Sleipnir = 18 slots

*sigh*


The idea is that the higher up resists go, the harder it is to increase it further, and the more weight is given to it. So races with the most evenish resists ends up with highest total resists when you add it all up.

It doesn't hold up in practice, of course, especially for shields, as invulnerabilities give far more total resistance than hardners. Evenish resists is an advantage, not a drawback. Minmatar's evenish t2 shield resists means it can be rounded up without holes with only invulnerabilities, using fewer slots to achieve higher resists.
Sphynix
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#7 - 2011-09-18 14:51:36 UTC
All these wonderful posts about how this race or that race is WTFPWN or not... wasn't it just 2 years ago(?) that Minmatar were the "laughing stock" and everyone was saying they were the worst?

Kinda makes you wonder - if you start training Gallente now, by the time you get really good skills for them - then you might find them to be FOTM... no?
Adam Kirwen
The Eleusinian Mystery Cult
#8 - 2011-09-18 15:07:33 UTC
Sphynix wrote:
All these wonderful posts about how this race or that race is WTFPWN or not... wasn't it just 2 years ago(?) that Minmatar were the "laughing stock" and everyone was saying they were the worst?


No, it wasn't.
Goose99
#9 - 2011-09-18 15:12:23 UTC
Adam Kirwen wrote:
Sphynix wrote:
All these wonderful posts about how this race or that race is WTFPWN or not... wasn't it just 2 years ago(?) that Minmatar were the "laughing stock" and everyone was saying they were the worst?


No, it wasn't.


Not quite in the same way Gallante is now, at least.
Fabulous Virgil
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2011-09-18 15:25:14 UTC
i'd love to disagree, but i can't

that being said, the issue wasn't so big before the projectile overhaul
Sassaniak
Deadspace Zombie Factory
#11 - 2011-09-18 15:26:33 UTC
Sphynix wrote:
All these wonderful posts about how this race or that race is WTFPWN or not... wasn't it just 2 years ago(?) that Minmatar were the "laughing stock" and everyone was saying they were the worst?

Kinda makes you wonder - if you start training Gallente now, by the time you get really good skills for them - then you might find them to be FOTM... no?


been waiting on that for a few years now, it was my bad timing to get in right after the nano nerf. i dont know what would make gallente balanced, but i would like to to become balanced.

as it is while i like blasters, i have trouble getting into any semblance of range without having to station hug never had a tracking problem as i always have a web or two, but that shouldn't be required (and how do they miss at 100m x 0m/s on a stationary target?).

and rails, well, yeah. rails.

...............................................................................

Sometimes, you all make me very disappointed.

Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#12 - 2011-09-18 15:53:44 UTC
Adam Kirwen wrote:
Sphynix wrote:
All these wonderful posts about how this race or that race is WTFPWN or not... wasn't it just 2 years ago(?) that Minmatar were the "laughing stock" and everyone was saying they were the worst?


No, it wasn't.
Let's look back shall we? Since minmatar got buffed, obviously they've been quite good (no, not OP, they're more or less on par with amarr atm). Prior to that, amarr reigned supreme for a fair while after their buffs and changes to the metagame (the nano nerf alone was enough to make pulses kick ass, did they really need another 25% tracking and a lowering of EM resists?).

Prior to that, we had the nano age. Each race had a few good choices, and matar were definitely not at the bottom, and this was after the first nano nerf, because the things you could do with a nano-nos domi or phoon were absurd. During most of the nano-age, it was amarr who were the laughing stock of the game, not minmatar. I can't really vouch for anything prior to that, as I only started messing around with pvp about 5 years ago, but I think my point is made Big smile

Fabulous Virgil wrote:
i'd love to disagree, but i can't

that being said, the issue wasn't so big before the projectile overhaul
It actually was, it just wasn't the only issue. Back before ACs and arties got buffed, the general opinion floating around the forum was that lasers were OP, and that CCP was either going to have to buff projectiles and hybrids, or nerf lasers. They chose the former, but forgot the second half of it.
Fighter26
Orion's Fist
#13 - 2011-09-18 16:44:44 UTC
leave Amarr, Mimmy alone and just fix Gallente rails. They need serious work to become viable weapons platform.

Ishkur, Deimos, and Hyperion all need a -50% microwarp effect when scrammed, so they still gain 50% micro speed even under scrambler... this gives them the ability to chase down prey stupid enough to get that close to a blaster boat.
stoicfaux
#14 - 2011-09-18 18:02:36 UTC
DarkAegix wrote:
Because I was exceedingly bored I decide to add up the T2 resists of each race.
Minmatar: 417.5
Caldari: 408.75
Amarr: 405
Gallente: 366


Any reason why you didn't add up the EHP instead?


Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Goose99
#15 - 2011-09-18 18:45:39 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
DarkAegix wrote:
Because I was exceedingly bored I decide to add up the T2 resists of each race.
Minmatar: 417.5
Caldari: 408.75
Amarr: 405
Gallente: 366


Any reason why you didn't add up the EHP instead?




Because we all know hull hp matters and shield/armor resists don't.Cool
Aamrr
#16 - 2011-09-18 18:49:15 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
DarkAegix wrote:
Because I was exceedingly bored I decide to add up the T2 resists of each race.
Minmatar: 417.5
Caldari: 408.75
Amarr: 405
Gallente: 366


Any reason why you didn't add up the EHP instead?


Might have something to do with the benefits of remote-repair or the fact that adding a plate or extender module gives a larger percentage increase to low-hp ships than large-hp ships.
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2011-09-18 22:48:59 UTC
DarkAegix wrote:
Because I was exceedingly bored I decide to add up the T2 resists of each race.
Minmatar: 417.5
Caldari: 408.75
Amarr: 405
Gallente: 366

Minmatar is on top, of course. Gallente is at the bottom, as expected. Minmatar have their Vagabonds, while Gallente have their Diemosts.


What do you mean "add up the T2 resists"? Did you just take a random hull and compare across races? And Minmatar are going to come out on top, because they are the ones that get boosted EM resists which are normally 0% in shields.
Goose99
#18 - 2011-09-18 23:20:37 UTC
Mfume Apocal wrote:
Minmatar are going to come out on top, because they are the ones that get boosted EM resists which are normally 0% in shields.


^This

Of the shield races:
Minmatar gets EM boost to shield
Caldari gets 0% EM to shield and boost to... thermal.

Of the armor races:
Amar gets explosive boost to armor
Gallante get 10% explosive resist to armor and boost to kinetic.

Incidentally, nonsucky races on top Big smile
Alexandria Aesirial
Fancypants Inc
Pandemic Horde
#19 - 2011-09-19 18:45:26 UTC
I thought I'd add this. Absolution deals almost the same amount of dps even though it's one turret short and has better EHP.

ABSO STATS

SLEIP STATS

It's only blobbing when you lose, otherwise it's good fleet comp.

Aamrr
#20 - 2011-09-19 19:01:13 UTC
One would hope it would have better EHP. It gets a resist bonus. The Sleipnir gets an active tank bonus. When you ignore one of the ship's bonuses, it's going to look defensively gimped.

The fact that the Absolution almost manages to catch up in DPS is a reflection of the fact that lasers have higher base DPS -- you know, to compensate for the absurd powergrid and capacitor requirements, the worse tracking, and the inability to select damage types. If the ships were properly balanced, the Absolution wouldn't be "close," it would be the leader in raw DPS figures by a decent margin -- until you considered the drawbacks of the turrets themselves.
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