These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Jita Park Speakers Corner

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Lyris Nairn 2012 : Space Friend to All
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Sasha Azala
Doomheim
#161 - 2012-02-01 10:53:26 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Sasha Azala wrote:

The reason a lot of people don't vote,is that they have no faith in the voting system or its candidates. So they can't vote for anyone anyway, casting a vote would be also a vote for the system of voting.

Or plainly put, using the system adds credibility to it.


Literally anyone can run. You don't like it, make some ripples and change it yourself.




Anyone can run, but why would I wish to be a CSM when my first course of action would be to disband the CSM?
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#162 - 2012-02-01 11:00:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Akirei Scytale
Sasha Azala wrote:

Anyone can run, but why would I wish to be a CSM when my first course of action would be to disband the CSM?


Because you don't understand how powerful a force influence is (assuming you have social skills), and how much you can accomplish with it. Just look at this CSM, and the results they pushed for (Crucible as opposed to Incarna 2.0).

For example, if there is a single Gallente player who dislikes this CSM, all I can say is they are incredibly poorly informed victims of propaganda. That was pretty much White Trees main issue during the TEST primaries.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#163 - 2012-02-01 11:07:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
Akirei Scytale wrote:
EDIT: seriously, why are you holding on to this distaste when your exposure to Goonswarm was probably limited entirely to the ones who wander into highsec frequently? The guys heading to highsec are looking for easy marks to shoot / scam, because thats pretty much the only fun thing easier to do there.

I don't think i ever encountered a goon in the game, actually. It's just the mentality. Collective stupidity.
I can't really pinpoint it. I just dislike them. It's not about how they play, not at all.

I'm not against ganking, i'm not against hulkaggeddon, i'm all for scamming ...
hell, i'm all for it and i would even defend the goons if somebody wanted to take away their right to kick asses
and make others cry !

Andski wrote:
there is that hint of anger in your posts that seems to stem from some prior encounter with members of my alliance

were you scammed? ganked? I'm sorry that you disagree with the way we play this game, but trying to belittle our intelligence because of it is unbecoming.

One human is ... or may be ... intelligent.
Many humans, in a collective, are stupid.


I don't disagree with how you play the game. If it wasn't for you guys, there would be even more bozos out there
trying to turn the game into a dry desert of peace. And no, i can't recall encountering any of you, and unlike the bozos
i accept the fact that when i lose a ship/pod, it is and will always be my own fault.

Hell, actually i hate most people in highsec more than anybody else.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#164 - 2012-02-01 11:11:24 UTC
the goons are far too large a group to make a judgement about them without actually becoming immersed in their culture.
Disband the CSM
#165 - 2012-02-01 15:56:05 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
the goons are far too large a group to make a judgement about them without actually becoming immersed in their culture.


No, don't think so.

They are clearly something awful, yo!
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#166 - 2012-02-01 17:32:14 UTC
Disband the CSM wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
the goons are far too large a group to make a judgement about them without actually becoming immersed in their culture.


No, don't think so.

They are clearly something awful, yo!


I'm pretty sure that pun, if it can even be considered one, was already played out in 2001.

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#167 - 2012-02-01 18:25:59 UTC
Ursula LeGuinn wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
You don't say? Well then! Please, share your thoughts.


My ideas re: new player experience/retention are all terrible. I'm waiting for someone in a position of perceived authority to spoon-feed me my opinion.

I actually have a great deal to say on the subject, but no actual solutions to propose, so I elect to keep quiet.

That's a very interesting perspective to have, mostly because it's novel. I think I like you.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#168 - 2012-02-01 18:31:31 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Hecatonis wrote:
Andski wrote:
okay feel free to continue to believe that the CSM is an irrelevant entity if it helps you sleep better at night ;p


i think you still dont understand, i believe that the CSM could be a great asset to the game, but that its potential is wasted by people who dont care enough, or use it as a joke.

all i said is that i am not voting for lyris or any other goon, not that i wasn't voting at all.

and having this thread at the top of GD helps others see what kind of people are running, good or bad, and i hope they choose better because of it. all in all, everyone wins.


I have a feeling that when the goons maintain their position in the CSM (hint: they will), you're still going to refuse to accept that its what the majority of EVE's players want. Classic problem of democracy - when people you don't agree with wins, *obviously* the vote was flawed. After all, everyone you know agrees with you!

Birds of a feather.

One of my detractors has been quoting a statement I made a while ago in which I stated that there is no reason to dislike Goonswarm for its success in the CSM, because the reason that Goonswarm has been successful is directly tied to the system working as it was designed and intended to work.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#169 - 2012-02-01 18:37:27 UTC
Sasha Azala wrote:
A member of GoonWaffe, space friends?

I don't buy it!


The devil will be wearing a halo next.

Do you have some mental image of Goons as being friendless and lonely? What?

I'm not even going to go into how laughably preposterous that sort of sweeping generalization is.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#170 - 2012-02-01 18:44:39 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:

Don't trust a goon when he talks about new player experience.

They spoil them. They ruin the whole growing up/experience path.
They pick insecure people with no real self esteem and give them
the false feeling of might and awesomeness.

That said ... it's probably no loss, because smart people with character wouldn't join the goons anyway.

To be fair, Goons don't need to advocate for the New Player Experience, since none of the new players joining Goonswarm have to deal with the New Player Experience in High Security space. Our newbies come straight out to Null Sec and learn out here to play the game in the company of hundreds of people willing to "spoil them," as you put it. I am standing up for the New Player Experience not because it benefits me or my coalition, but because it is the right thing to do.

As for your assertion that "smart people with character wouldn't join the goons," I think you would be sorely disappointed to learn the number of Something Awful forums users with advanced or professional degrees.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#171 - 2012-02-01 19:00:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Solstice Project wrote:
One human is ... or may be ... intelligent.
Many humans, in a collective, are stupid.

This is why we just follow one (or a few) people. And STILL some people hit the Jump button.
Lyris Nairn wrote:
To be fair, Goons don't need to advocate for the New Player Experience, since none of the new players joining Goonswarm have to deal with the New Player Experience in High Security space. Our newbies come straight out to Null Sec and learn out here to play the game in the company of hundreds of people willing to "spoil them," as you put it. I am standing up for the New Player Experience not because it benefits me or my coalition, but because it is the right thing to do.

As for your assertion that "smart people with character wouldn't join the goons," I think you would be sorely disappointed to learn the number of Something Awful forums users with advanced or professional degrees.

Yes, posting to confirm newbees are indeed really spoiled. The skill grind to get into a Maelstrom is a lot easier when you have tons of rifters, then thrashers for free to play with. And then reimburseable Hurricanes (and of course the Drake, which everyone loves) which you take on roams! Oh right, and newbie rifter tackling some poor carrier is great, and Blackbirds are amazing.

Before long (few months) a dozen POS shoots and being hotdropped in the shiny T2-fitted Battleship and one is well equipped to become a bittervet and spoil new newbess. At least that is what I was told.

P.S. Obviously it's impossible even for the CSM to give everyone ever free Rifters, let alone Thrashers. You do get free newbie ships though (and a Tritanium).

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Disband the CSM
#172 - 2012-02-01 19:44:39 UTC
Krios Ahzek wrote:
Disband the CSM wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
the goons are far too large a group to make a judgement about them without actually becoming immersed in their culture.


No, don't think so.

They are clearly something awful, yo!


I'm pretty sure that pun, if it can even be considered one, was already played out in 2001.



Don't care. It was a perfect response, yo!

Truth never played out.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#173 - 2012-02-01 19:51:52 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
As for your assertion that "smart people with character wouldn't join the goons," I think you would be sorely disappointed to learn the number of Something Awful forums users with advanced or professional degrees.


Which does in absolutely no way mean they are actually smart, but i realize that i'm way too generalizing anyway.
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#174 - 2012-02-01 19:52:08 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
Andski wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:

Don't trust a goon when he talks about new player experience.

They spoil them. They ruin the whole growing up/experience path.
They pick insecure people with no real self esteem and give them the false
feeling of might and awesomeness.

That said ... it's probably no loss, because smart people with character wouldn't join the goons anyway.


If you're stupid enough to believe that, go ahead. Truth is, we just recruit from Something Awful. Don't even bother trying to throw that blanket on a forum with 150k+ members.


I believe it was you where i got the idea from ... that you spoil people and everything. Can't tell for sure,
but it was a goon who i got it from.

I can't tell if you were being honest, it just made sense that you were doing exactly what you said you're doing.

You're probably right, but couldn't you teach most of your members a bit more ... brains ... or ... manners ... too ?

Why would a space guild attempt to "instruct" grown adults on social skills? This is a video game, not a prep school.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#175 - 2012-02-01 19:53:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyris Nairn
Solstice Project wrote:
Andski wrote:
Reputation: -1000001
Should never post again

nice goonfleet dot com forum rep lol


Thanks for caring.

He's talking about me. Frabba recently set my Reputation on Goonfleet dot Com to -1000001, because certain people within Goonfleet really don't like the idea of me running for CSM7.

edit: This guy, for example:

GeneticWeapon wrote:

Making a huge post on eve-o pointing out the methods in which we in Goonswarm cast our votes and use our numbers to an advantage to get our dudes getting elected is pretty crappy. Not that it's not obvious to everyone anyways, but you are here literally taking a stand against something that is good for our alliance, and advocating that it gets broken.

I'm not sure how you got into Goonwaffe, but I'm looking forward to the day you get commissar'd for being the huge pubby that you are.

— Genetic Weapon, GoonWaffe, Goonswarm Federation

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#176 - 2012-02-01 20:02:24 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
Andski wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
the pseudo-elitist thinking from people who are nothing else than ants with no brains.


the irony does not escape me


I'm sorry, it seems i wasn't using the right wording for you to understand.

You're an idiot, following an idiot.
I may be an idiot, but i don't follow anybody.

The sad part is that your group has so many idiots, you actually have an impact.

Why exactly is that sad? It is how democracy works. Democracy empowers the masses, not the intellectual elite. If you want some sort of oligarchical system, then perhaps you could petition CCP to modify the CSM?

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#177 - 2012-02-01 20:04:45 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Sasha Azala wrote:

Anyone can run, but why would I wish to be a CSM when my first course of action would be to disband the CSM?


Because you don't understand how powerful a force influence is (assuming you have social skills), and how much you can accomplish with it. Just look at this CSM, and the results they pushed for (Crucible as opposed to Incarna 2.0).

For example, if there is a single Gallente player who dislikes this CSM, all I can say is they are incredibly poorly informed victims of propaganda. That was pretty much White Trees main issue during the TEST primaries.

To be fair, philosophy and rhetoric are subjects not given much emphasis in many school systems.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#178 - 2012-02-01 20:05:49 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
the goons are far too large a group to make a judgement about them without actually becoming immersed in their culture.

No one on this forum wants to be told that inductive inferences or sweeping generalizations are wrong.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Uppsy Daisy
State War Academy
Caldari State
#179 - 2012-02-01 20:38:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Uppsy Daisy
You just don't get it do you Lyris?

No-one cares if you are cleverer than them.

No-one cares about inductive references.

Many on these forums, rightly or wrongly, don't like Goons. They think that they are a bunch of griefers and gankers that ruin the game for new starters (that don't come from SA), and drive away subscribers. It doesn't matter whether their logic is correct or not, that's how many feel.

You are associated via your massive posting numbers and the letters under your portrait with that, again rightly or wrongly.

It also looks like many within Goonswarm don't much like the fact that everyone thinks you speak for them, when you actually don't.

Pointing out that their logic is flawed because of its inductive references will not change their mind.

So why don't you just tell us what you stand for, aside from voter reform (which will not get you elected, by the way)?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#180 - 2012-02-01 20:44:52 UTC
Uppsy Daisy wrote:
It also looks like many within Goonswarm don't much like the fact that everyone thinks you speak for them, when you actually don't.

Going by the EVE-O forums can be slightly deceptive. I don't think most people are even aware as going on these forums isn't as great as our own super secret forums.

And of course I thought it was that the Mittani spoke for us? At least it seems rather likely he represents someone's interests and, well, I don't think it would be people who prefer less explosions, more supercaps or more CONCORD. (I might be wrong on the last one.)

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?