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New Ship: Pocket Carrier to support roaming fleets
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Kapral Kalam
Beach Boys
The Minions.
#1 - 2012-02-01 15:36:26 UTC
Pocket Carrier based on BS hull.
No jump drive - just ability to use stargates.

20 000m3 ship bay (2 crusiers or several frigates/destroyers). Bonus/level?
2000m3 corp hangar.

Fitting service for cruisers and smaller ships.

No turrets or missiles (but some high slots should be there for logistic purposes at least).
Large drone bay (regular drones only - no fighters). With bonus to logistic or ewar drones (that would be new) not to combat drones - still can use combat drones.
No bonus to gang links (no to replace command ships). But maybe capability to operate one gang link as T1 BC.

Bonuses to Tracking Link and Remote sensor boosters per level.
Tank capabilities of a battleship but with mobility of the BC.

If destroyed pilot will eject in selected (earlier) ship from ship bay it is to reduce potential losses of the ships in the bay.
Ships from bay have a chance to survive the explosion (just as modules) will float in space with no pilot and can be boarded.

Role: "Carrier" for roaming fleets. So that you can get into new ship once your ceptor dictor or hac was killed.
Right now if you make a roam into enemy territory and you lost your ship (mostly tacklers are affected) but saved egg you have basically no chance to refit - for you fun is over. It makes ceptor and dictors pilots life sad :)

I think such ship will fulfill the role which partially should be done by regular carriers.
Regular Carriers ship bay is used only to transport ships between stations not to bring new ships to the battlefield.
Carriers itself are used as logistic (in terms of repair) or combat (fighters).
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#2 - 2012-02-01 15:39:06 UTC
Sounds like an Orca ...
Velicitia
XS Tech
#3 - 2012-02-01 16:38:58 UTC
mxzf wrote:
Sounds like an Orca ...


except smaller... and less useful.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Grey Azorria
Federation Industries
#4 - 2012-02-01 19:01:53 UTC
Carriers are used to carry ships (like hictors) and refit ships (often other carriers) fairly often, so mini carrier not required

Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

Sometimes when I post, I look at my sig and wish that I'd follow my own god damned advice.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#5 - 2012-02-01 19:12:24 UTC
Sounds like an Orca. not a carrier.

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XXSketchxx
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#6 - 2012-02-02 01:19:43 UTC
Biomass yourself.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#7 - 2012-02-02 02:04:56 UTC
XXSketchxx wrote:
Biomass yourself.


XXSketchxx is the master of the diplomatic approach, as seen here P
Galphii
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-02-02 02:20:33 UTC
Yeah sounds a hell of a lot like an orca... Orca's can have a decent tank, they have high slots for remote reps and whatnot, and they have a nice ship hanger for a bunch of destroyers and frigates. Just use one of those, and be sure to protect it Cool

"Wow, that internet argument completely changed my fundamental belief system," said no one, ever.
Kapral Kalam
Beach Boys
The Minions.
#9 - 2012-02-02 12:59:21 UTC
Hmm sounds like opinion of someone who killed 20 ships and not in 0.0 ;)

Orca.
40 seconds allign time, 75m/s (300m/s) with MVD, bonuses to mining links, 5 medium drones, 500m ISKS (for bonuses and parameters you don't need)... etc.
Orca is something you need to haul through the systems (which will make you gang mobility = zero).
This is just PeE not PvP ship. That's all.

Please don't post if you are not participating in roaming gangs in 0.0 space.

I was looking more into ship which can be still a part of the roaming gang and can participate in the "fun".
This is not the role of orca or carrier.

Grey Azorria -> Yes carriers are used for this but not in roaming fleets.
You need to have dedicated cyno with you (which will immobilize you fleet for a moment).
You are mostly out of carrier jump range.
Carierr pilot will not jump with you from system to system and participate in the roam.
Yes in some situations you can call for carrier to refit someone who just lost his ceptor - is it worthy/cost effective?


I would like to see something smaller cheaper, faster, less tanked, with some offensive capabilities, with smaller ship bay.
Something that will fit into 10 man gang going fast into enemy territory. With a chance to get back in full squad (not necessarily with every ship).
Something which will not make you 2 ceptor pilots wonder if it is worthy to tackle single vaga. Something that will not end fun of you gang because you just lost your scout.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#10 - 2012-02-02 15:01:31 UTC
Kapral Kalam wrote:
Hmm sounds like opinion of someone who killed 20 ships and not in 0.0 ;)

Orca.
40 seconds allign time, 75m/s (300m/s) with MVD, bonuses to mining links, 5 medium drones, 500m ISKS (for bonuses and parameters you don't need)... etc.
Orca is something you need to haul through the systems (which will make you gang mobility = zero).
This is just PeE not PvP ship. That's all.

Please don't post if you are not participating in roaming gangs in 0.0 space.

I was looking more into ship which can be still a part of the roaming gang and can participate in the "fun".
This is not the role of orca or carrier.

Grey Azorria -> Yes carriers are used for this but not in roaming fleets.
You need to have dedicated cyno with you (which will immobilize you fleet for a moment).
You are mostly out of carrier jump range.
Carierr pilot will not jump with you from system to system and participate in the roam.
Yes in some situations you can call for carrier to refit someone who just lost his ceptor - is it worthy/cost effective?


I would like to see something smaller cheaper, faster, less tanked, with some offensive capabilities, with smaller ship bay.
Something that will fit into 10 man gang going fast into enemy territory. With a chance to get back in full squad (not necessarily with every ship).
Something which will not make you 2 ceptor pilots wonder if it is worthy to tackle single vaga. Something that will not end fun of you gang because you just lost your scout.

The Orca is being nerfed out of combat roles, as it should be. It is an indy ship, not a poor man's carrier for PvP. It's misuse in pvp threatens it's value in its intended role as an indy support ship.
(They tried to make it less appealing to PvP without taking away from it's intended mining support role)

Your vessel sounds like a squad support vessel, providing support so a roam can keep going after minor losses. Killed pilots will still need to burn back to rejoin, since it has no clone vats, but that happens.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#11 - 2012-02-02 15:58:03 UTC
So you want a ship that's big enough to support a ship maint bay and have plenty of defenses, but you want it small and quick enough to keep up with a BC gang. Sounds a bit OP to me.

Bear in mind that you're expecting it to carry a few of the same ships that you're using INSIDE ITSELF, no duh it'll need to be a big heavy ship that's not going to move very quick. You can't have it both ways; you can't have a quick and agile gang that's also able to change ships and refit on the fly, there has to be some drawbacks and consequences.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#12 - 2012-02-02 18:35:42 UTC
mxzf wrote:
So you want a ship that's big enough to support a ship maint bay and have plenty of defenses, but you want it small and quick enough to keep up with a BC gang. Sounds a bit OP to me.

Bear in mind that you're expecting it to carry a few of the same ships that you're using INSIDE ITSELF, no duh it'll need to be a big heavy ship that's not going to move very quick. You can't have it both ways; you can't have a quick and agile gang that's also able to change ships and refit on the fly, there has to be some drawbacks and consequences.

MX is right on that count.
The ship size needs to accommodate what you are trying to store inside of it.

In practical terms, it sounds like you are asking for a combat equivalent of an Orca.
(and as stated previously, the Orca is rebalanced to make this harder already, CCP clearly wants it limited to non PvP)

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Xolve
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#13 - 2012-02-02 20:08:07 UTC
Kapral Kalam wrote:
Bad idea


Not only is your idea terrible, so is your alliance.
Kapral Kalam
Beach Boys
The Minions.
#14 - 2012-02-03 15:31:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Kapral Kalam
Xolve - very good argumentation :)

Yes, I'm asking for combat oriented Orca.

I'm flying in roaming gangs, I experienced issues when I (or someone from the gang) lost ship (not POD) and are 20J from home. Really not something which you can call fun and fun is something I expect from the game.
It's just a game :) and some comment here are like creating this "combat Orca" could heart you somehow Shocked
Unless this is you point - you don't like PvP and your hurt when someone will make PvPers life easier :/

I accept the argument about ship size - this might be "tuned". BS ship hull is clearly not suited to transport 2 cruisers.
But since this "combat Orca" I proposed can have half the space for ships, significantly reduced cargo hold, half or less of the defense, then I think mobility can be improved 3 times (ending with something like BS). And all of this for a price of ~250M ISKs.

BTW Did you asked CCP where additional med/low slot came from in AF in latest patch? Or how Tier3 BC can have 95% reduction of PG or 50 in CPU needs for big guns :) It's SCI-FI game - not all here makes sense but most should give fun.

In terms of required skills this ship could have share them with carriers/logistics/command ships not industrials.

I would not call this ship carrier for poor pilots. It's just different kind of the ship. It is not a matter of ISKs, you just can't achieve what I would like by use of regular carrier.
Beside 250M +fitting + ships inside will give you half of fitted carrier price - not bad to have something like this on the KillBoard :)

How can this be OP?
In combat it will have small impact - DPS somewhere between BC and Cruiser.
After combat (assuming it survived) it will give possibility to get back into ship and continue fight for those who lost their ships.
Unless you think about reshipping during combat - than there is solution (no refit if you have agression).
Any other OP you see for such cost?