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[PROPOSAL] Bounties and changes to Standings

Author
Razesdarked
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2011-09-07 17:02:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Razesdarked
If your standing with a faction drops below -5 with a faction you will be shot at by NPC. This is getting outdated, and its time to give the control to the players. Its time to bring the Old West to Eve.

Space shouldn't be safe, not even in High Security, it should only be safer. So I want to revamp the bounty system so it adds a little more gameplay variety.
Also limiting space in such a binary way as just to disallow people access to certain space and using NPC to enforce them is kind of boring.

So I propose that bounties should be used to show how unwelcomed you are in a certain part of space, but not to replace standings in other parts of the game.

We have to separate between two kinds of bounties for this to be viable.
Player issued bounties and NPC issued bounties.

While all bounty should be summed together when showed in your profile like today though.

NPC issued Bounty
If you do things that would give you a standings decrease with a faction, said faction will put a bounty on your head.
Even missioners should have to think about their bounties

Player issued bounty
Today bounty seems to be a way of bragging instead of being at risk. Which I think is wrong. It shouldn't be cool to have a big bounty. It should be cool to have a big bounty and not die.

This can also be a good tactic for wartargets who are unable to fight for themselves. Issue bounties on wartargets which would allow others to butt inn.

There are a few things has to be fixed along with it though.

  1. Bounty Hunters should have to register as a bounty hunter for a fee based on his standing with a faction
  2. If this was free, everyone would register as a bounty hunter and kind of defeat the purpose.
  3. Bounties should only decrease by the amount lost when a ship was wrecked or inpounded or based on percentage
  4. If not, everyone would just get into a cheap frig and make their alt blow them up and get tons of free ISK
  5. Bounty Hunters with kill rights on you should be identified in the overview either with a different symbol or by blinking.
  6. It should be hard to identify a bounty hunter before you encounter one that actually is out to get you. It should be hard and risky to move in spaces you aren't allowed today, but not impossible.
  7. A Player issued bounty should have a timer.
  8. So that you can't get a fleet together and just impose bounties on people and instantly kill them. But should you really want someone dead and have the money, you can make it happend.
  9. Killrights to anyone with a bounty in a system should be possible at a price.
  10. But if the person is below the shoot to kill threshold you have to inpound the persons ship and not kill them.


Inpounding
A module simular to a webifier. When the armor alarm goes off, the module can be activated and the ship will be taken into custody by concord. This should yield a higher payout than killing the victim(for example a set percentage of the inpounded value), but will allow the victim to pay to get his stuff back.
Another variation i came up with was to have a timer after the module was activated before concord comes and takes the ship away. During that time corpmates and alliance mates are allowed to intervene with the hunters and their mark.

Pros:

  1. It brings more player control to the game
  2. More Pew-Pew, and even high-secers like me will have to deal with hazards of flying around
  3. Its a way for industrialists and griefer-targets to "fight back" in situations where they previously could not.
  4. Will bring more (Hopefully good) PvP to the ones that want it
  5. People can opt in and out as bounty hunters when they want, and can serve as a good way to nibble at PvP
  6. Open eve up to a new way of playing it.
  7. Open up the high sec regions to people with to low standings.


Cons:

  1. Im sure there are a few, but i cant think of some right now.


If would also be easier for missioners who have poor standings with some factions to actually go to that place and do missions/etc to remedy that. Given that should you lose enough ships in a region your bounty will drop to a point where you are not a legal target anymore.
Sor'Ral
Ascendance Of New Eden
Workers Trade Federation
#2 - 2011-09-08 01:30:35 UTC
Sounds interesting!

+1
Moeli Nightwalker
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3 - 2011-09-08 03:52:25 UTC
Bounty Hunter is required to have a Concord Charter in their hold to avoid Concordokken.
To obtain a charter, you must be in good standing.
Base price for a charter will be 100 million but pilots will receive a discount equal to their security status.
1.0 will recieve a 10% discount. 5.0 will be a 50% discount

Also, having the Charter generates a bonus to the bounty in accordance to their Sec status?

I like the idea of impounding the ship.
The mechanics could be a bit iffy in space.
How about,
when the module is activated, the ship is flagged and not allowed to use the jumpgates.
If the pilot docks, the ship is impounded there. The system would flag it like it has contraband.

If it happens to be in a stationless system, the chase is on. If he has friends, it could get interesting.


Thoughts:

Can the pilot exit ship and undock then?
Who get's the ship? Auctioned off or pay fine to (like a repair) to remove bounty?

Can the bounty hunter go after corpmates or allies if shot while in the act of apprehending the mark?

Zaenis Desef
Unleashed Pestilence
Black Rise Matters
#4 - 2011-09-08 05:21:16 UTC
Moeli Nightwalker wrote:

I like the idea of impounding the ship.
The mechanics could be a bit iffy in space.
How about,
when the module is activated, the ship is flagged and not allowed to use the jumpgates.
If the pilot docks, the ship is impounded there. The system would flag it like it has contraband.

If it happens to be in a stationless system, the chase is on. If he has friends, it could get interesting.


I really like this idea. My question is, if it's impounded does the bounty hunter get the bounty? He captured the fugitive. On a side note they could also add a " wanted dead or alive" mechanic where you could choose the type of bounty to place on a character.

Moeli Nightwalker wrote:

Thoughts:

Can the pilot exit ship and undock then?
Who get's the ship? Auctioned off or pay fine to (like a repair) to remove bounty?

Can the bounty hunter go after corpmates or allies if shot while in the act of apprehending the mark?



I think the module should completely lock the ship down (but is only able to be activated on valid "bounty" targets) making you unable to move, activate any module, eject or self destruct.

As for corpmates I think it should work the same as anyother mechanic for PVP, if the corpmates/friends of the bounty attack the bounty hunter they get GCC and are agressed to the bounty hunter and become valid targets.




Razesdarked
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2011-09-08 10:37:13 UTC
The way I envisioned impounding was to have some module that would completely lock down the ship after a set ammount or time or when certain parameters was reached(like getting armor to 10% or something like that.)
I envision it actually being harder to inpound a ship compared to just blowing it up, but it should give you a fraction of the ship cost in addition to the bounty.

This is the reason i wanted a separate module for this job, because that would require bountyhunters that want that little piece of extra ISK to make room for that in their fleet/fittings which would set themselves in a small disadvantage. Therefore i didn't want this to replace a point, but be used in addition.

As far as help from corpmates and such goes. I think normal rules for today should apply. People should be allowed to help out their corpmates fight of bounty hunters. One sideeffect of this could be that their own bounty would rise as well, when they interfere.

I was also pondering Incarna related tie-ins for these elements. This business should be somewhat shady. It must be. Bribing and possibly randsoming should be possible, but I guess that already works out well.

It could be cool with a some sort of cat and mouse game in the station. Where you could actually make someone surrender or they would be forced out of the station after some negotiations. But i really dont like this idea to much,
Egilmonsc
Massively Mob
#6 - 2011-09-09 01:03:02 UTC
+1 and Supporting this discussion.
Viable bounty hunting could add a compelling facet to EvE.
"BABY, MY LOVE IS BOMB  COME ON THE BOMB THE TWIST!"
Darknesss
Doomheim
#7 - 2011-09-10 10:25:51 UTC
The biggest issue with bounties has been that if someone places a large bounty on someones head, they can use another character or alt or friend to pod them and collect the bounty.

Anyone with sense wouldn't place a large bounty because essentially they are paying the person they're after and giving them profit.

Only way I can see to combat this would be to have some sort of contract system for bounties that the issuer can assign to players around eve. This ISK would be secured and locked by the game, just as with contracts to sell ships etc. You could have the bounty displayed publicly much as it is now, however only bounty hunters assigned can collect, the target wouldn't know who it is that's after him.

This would protect the person issuing the bounty and it would protect the bounty hunters assigned and it would hopefully go a way towards a valid bounty system.
Razesdarked
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2011-09-10 15:52:20 UTC
I tried to address the first thing in my initial post. I suggested a delay on the bounty for X amount of time. And a notification that someone put a bounty on you. By then your mark can be wherever or offline or just sitting next to a friend bounty hunter who is just waiting for the timer to turn and collect.
And if you hate someone THAT much, that you are willing to risk potentially LOTS and LOTS of isk depending on the marks security status, and what region he is inn. I really don't see the problem here.

Im not sure how the best way to handle the bounties. If all the money is released on kill, you get your friend to kill you in cheap frig and you are rich. But if you only get a payout equal to the ship you are killing, it wouldnt be much money in it, since most people would fly around in cheap ships in areas where they are outlawed.

The contract system for bounties would work better. You, the issuer should be able to set parameters for who can get the bounty or not.
Anyone could apply for it, you select who you is allowed to carry it out. Or you could say that anyone with a corp or personal standing of above 0 would be allowed to try out.
That would also allow for player brokers who make bounties on behalf of someone else, and only known good bounty hunters are allowed to actually try out for the bounty.
Maybe also say that the damage has to be dealt to something of a BC or higher or a ship with Baseprice of for example 10M ISK or more.
And maybe bonus if you take out a Faction ship for example.

Anyway, the main focus should be that the bounties shall add "jobs" as well as a viable strategy for getting where you want and not just a easy way to grief people in HS. I shouldn't be able to fly cloaked into a belt add some bounties on the miners and have my gun-alt gank the **** out of them in a matter of seconds.
paritybit
Stimulus
#9 - 2011-09-14 23:44:30 UTC
I liked your first statement; the rest was okay. I agree that NPCs providing "security" is not really fun for anybody. Players should be tasked with this wherever possible. Meaning that if you have low standing with an NPC faction or with CONCORD (negative security status) then players should be intercepting you rather than faction navy spawns. Criminals should fear going into high-security space for the same reason non-criminals fear going into low-security space: there may be a gate camp waiting for them.

I think your player bounty idea will only be used to grief and I'm not a big fan of that. We have war declarations for that purpose already (which is another topic entirely).

I like the idea of NPC faction bounties (I assume you mean somebody who runs Caldari missions and has poor Gallente standing can be engaged by Gallente agents) but the bounty hunters shouldn't just have free reign to parade into NPC sovereign high-security space and take out targets based on faction standing. If anything, maybe require players who want to do this to register with a particular faction and thus allow members of the opposing faction to engage them freely (I guess that's a lot like faction spyfare or something).

I do, however, think CONCORD issued bounties would be pretty cool and motivate PvP conflict. I wrote about this on my blog quite some time ago.
Razesdarked
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2011-09-15 07:20:01 UTC
Read your blog, and liked it.
Im all for that Bounties should be considered a badass-o-meter.

I was kind of hasty when I put this out, i figured I had a foolproof idea to get rid of griefing with it, but Its hard to make a system inherently griefing proof, you can only do it painfully expensive or such. I mean, with the numbers I have in mind the cost of a corp or alliance war-dec shouldnt even cover getting someone with poor standings kill rights in 0.5 even.

Lots of people might post smaller bounties or a corp doing a large one.
If some guy steals a carebear's (like me) stuff in a mission or in a belt, you should have the possibility to make him the outlaw for a nominal fee, if he really wants you dead, there are and should be easier alternatives.

I kinda like the Idea of you having to pick sides and risk becoming outlawed in the regions which you oppose. If you are a war hero in one country, you are a menace to the other. So while you might be really highly regarded in Minmatar space, you could be despised by the Amarr.

This could make market conflicts in High sec more viable. Because if you have really good Gallente Standing and some other mining corp has low standing with Gallente, you could basicly pay to get them harrassed in Gallente Space. Forcing them to relocate.

Its hard to lose faction standing without gaining some with another in this game. Meaning if you have super standing with a faction you are 90% safe from bounty griefers there. Yet, you might not want to go into another region, or some corp has put a bounty on your corp in some space to keep you from doing business there.
Moeli Nightwalker
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#11 - 2011-09-18 04:59:53 UTC
Good blog paritybit.

Food for thought.

What constitutes a bounty?
Simple, the pilot is now a fugitive until caught or surrenders to the authorities.
Automatic bounty for a Concord infraction or invoke a Concord response like a ganking a hauler or miner.
Time bonus like missions?

Requirements for Bounty Hunting?
Something like a positive sec status and/or permit from Concord.

[How to prevent abuse of the Bounty Hunter bounties?
Taken from the paritybit's blog, the cost of obtaining a replacement clone should be affected.

Other thoughts:
Should insurance be available to the pilot with a bounty?

Getting replacement gear/ship.
How easy would it be for a criminal to walk into a Walmart and buy a gun?
Now that won't stop indivual selling items to the fugitive.
Can a station report the location of a sale when the fugitive buys something like a gun or ship??
Razesdarked
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2011-09-18 08:35:11 UTC

What constitutes a bounty?
As far as im concerned, anything that today lowers your security status should issue bounties.
Kill a ship, get bounty, pod someone, get bounty. Can flip, get bounty.
But as i've stated before, just merely having a bounty does not constitute that every bounty hunter is allowed to claim your bounty anywhere. Police aren't going to raid your house because you punched some kid and took his lunch money.

Requrements for Bounty Hunting,
A charter/permit from one of the races, which allows you to hunt in territory owned by said race.
Anyone should be able to get one, given you don't have a bunch of bounties yourself. But sec status should play into the costs.

How to prevent abuse?
Concord bounties should only pay out simular to baseprice. Most ships and modules are in reality priced over baseprice, if a friend helps you reduce your bounty by killing you. You will most likely use more money on ship and fitting than your friend gets.

Player bounties should work inherently different.
As i stated, it should be able to use this for griefing, it sould just be to expensive to really be worth it. If so, just to make sure that traders and people with a lot of money, but a little muscle could grief griefers with it.

But the player issued bounties should'nt be able to dominate a factions decision to allow people to kill you in their space. So if you have no concord bounty, a player shouldn't be able to grief bounty you.

We talked about how this system should be accomodated so that issuer would decide who the bounty could apply to.
He could set it as a public bounty, where everone could join in or only people with a positive standing with issuer and such.

That would be quite awesome, because that also opens up for people who want to act as brokers and mediators. You pay a guy with a decent amount of bounty hunters on his rooster, and if you get him to make the bounty, you know that real bounty hunters will hunt this guy down.
Insurance should definitly not pay out to victims of bounty hunters.
Also, as far as knowing where and when a victim has bought things could be cool, but should cost more that locator services.