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Can flipping and the tos

Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Stockholm Syndrome.
#21 - 2011-10-31 22:36:10 UTC
What bothers me about it is the blanket protection given to new players in that they can ignore the warnings given for opening cans and it's somehow the fault of others if they take a bait can (no, i don't can bait noobs). If CCP wants to protect new players, they should institute aggro immunity and prevent can flipping for new players inside of rookie systems. Limit it to 5-7 days and add in a tutorial that explains what those things are and that they go on outside the rookie systems and you'll have protected noobs without the GMs having to warn people who don't know it's against the hidden rules (if it's not in the TOS or EULA as a rule, it's hidden).

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2011-11-01 01:19:10 UTC
can flipping isnt against the rules
can flipping in ROOKIE systems is against the rules
this prevents operation im bad at the game and need to kill rookies in frigs to feel better about myself.
Traffic Warden
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
#23 - 2011-11-01 14:27:58 UTC
mxzf wrote:
Smiling Menace wrote:
mxzf wrote:
I've got a better idea. If said players don't mess with extremely young players who they know don't know any better, they'll have no issues at all. CCP shouldn't have to warn people not to be an ass and grief noobs.

So you are taking away our CCP given right to be asses and grief people? Sad

I'm not saying that at all. I was just saying that people shouldn't deliberately do it to noobs who don't know what's going on to begin with. If you want to try something like that with me, a player who's been around for a few years and knows how aggression works, that's fine. But doing the same kind of thing to a noob who still hasn't gotten around to leaving the system they started in (and possibly doesn't even know how) is a different matter.

One of the best things that happened to me early on (my second day of trial I think on my first toon) was getting can flipped then blown up. Lost virtually nothing due to only being in frig with ass for fittings, was taught hi-sec is not safe, and was prompted to immediatly go read up on aggro mechanics so I wouldn't be dumb enough to let something similar happen again. Far better it happen in belt in the starter system than any time down the line when I was in a barge or exhumer. I'm not trying to pretend like I'm performing some public service when I go out stealing ore, but surely it's best to discover these things early.
Zleon Leigh
#24 - 2012-01-29 22:43:30 UTC
+1 add to TOS or CCP document most commonly violated undocumented rules

Incarna - Newest business example of mismanaged capital. CCP - Continuing to gank independent PI producers every day

PvP's latest  incentive program ** Unified Inventory **  'Cause you gotta kill something after trying to use it

Orion Guardian
#25 - 2012-01-31 16:03:07 UTC
You know, I am pretty sure anyone who does thta will get a warning first instead of getting a ban ;)

And to the one talking about "not knowing a law and judges": That depends really. If there is an obscure law you do not know about (and that common sense does not dictate) you might get off light....that does not hold true for laws you are "supposed to know" (all traffic laws more or elss after getting your license) or the once covered by common sense (hurting people, stealing etc)
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2012-01-31 19:52:31 UTC
Zleon Leigh wrote:
+1 add to TOS or CCP document most commonly violated undocumented rules

The blatantly obvious pop up warning when you open a can that doesn't belong to you isn't enough? Sorry...we shouldn't dumb things down for idiots that can't read.

I congratulate you on searching and finding a post on the subject instead of posting a new one. While necro posting a thread that is 2 months old is annoying at least you aren't posting yet ANOTHER thread on the subject.

Bounties for all!

Claire Raynor
#27 - 2012-02-02 12:53:59 UTC
Sephiroth CloneIIV wrote:
A noob just starting the game is clueless about agro mechanics. so neither would they steal ore to bait people, nor would they even have much skills to do it.

They might assume it is imposable to steal other players loot in space, what other major MMO after all has free looting?

A player who flips cans deliberately and is in gank ship, knows how to play game, and is not starting out. They may try it on noobs or experienced players, but if they do it on noobs in obvious starter system they face punishment.

No problems here.

It's not just n00bs who are clueless about aggro mechanics!!! I got an old post about my confusion with it all. There are a few of us who when we see QQ in local and see the player is 10 days old do try and offer some support rather than the usual, "Lol, nub - L2P" comments that are so popular.

The trouble is. n00bs don't just stay in the starter systems. The last issue above was an 11 day old player, a Gallante, in Gulfonodi of all places.
Omega Flames
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#28 - 2012-02-15 02:11:18 UTC
1. This topic was never intended to discuss whether people should be banned for can baiting in noob systems. 8 people out of 20 who posted here are too stupid to read the OP that clearly states my only concern was that it should be in the TOS/EULA not if it should be bannable. So much for eve players being smarter than your average rock Roll

2. Almost all games out there put things that you can be banned for in the TOS/EULA. Requiring me to also search for every CCP employee's post (of which the only realistic method is to use eve-search not a CCP maintained search utility) or every page in the wiki (at least the EULA has an order to it, the wiki doesn't even have a site map for me to make sure I've read the entire thing) is unrealistic. No other game I know of lists bannable offenses in the wiki like CCP does so any player isn't going to expect them to here. All that is required is 1 sentence in the TOS and a link added that points to the wiki page with a more detailed explanation.
Griefing is a bannable offense.

The quote above is literally all that is required and puts a pointer to related detailed wiki page.
Callista Nueva
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2012-02-15 12:42:50 UTC
Heck granted i've been playing for ages and i never done the tutorial agents so i decided to do so just so i can say i have done it this was less than a week ago, some people there warn griefers flippers and everything these certain people just don't care they'd hang around this system with a apocalypse hell i saw someone there with a nightmare once in jouv.

They would can flip, grief, pod kill and sucker newbie players in, and when the threats came they would laugh, i reckon CCP should make it impossible for PvP item theft or otherwise in these systems but its them that choose how EvE work's not me of course.

One thing that is highly annoying though is the people in rookie systems are one of four categories:
Griefers(can flippers, baiters pod killers etc)
People who are there solely to do training agents(Tutorial missions)
People who are there solely to moan at griefers and threaten to place a petition against them

Just because i see things in a differant viewpoint does not make me paranoid it makes me a bit obsolete in the majorities views.

Aand i do love the thought of Using repair drones as bait O:

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