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Not sure which weapon system to train next [PVE]
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Captain Avitus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-01-28 17:46:59 UTC
I am currently maxed out with lasers, and all support skills.

I am not sure whether to max out missiles or projectiles next. Projectiles would take less since I have all the gunnery support maxed, but I'm not sure if it would be a small change for me since I already rock the lasers everywhere.

I'm intrigued by missiles, but not sure if they are all they are cracked up to be for PvE. I would have to train up all the support skills as well, resulting in a longer overall time.

What are your experiences and what are the pros and cons that you guys see?
Pyrosomniac
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-01-28 18:49:14 UTC
Captain Avitus wrote:
I am currently maxed out with lasers, and all support skills.

I am not sure whether to max out missiles or projectiles next. Projectiles would take less since I have all the gunnery support maxed, but I'm not sure if it would be a small change for me since I already rock the lasers everywhere.

I'm intrigued by missiles, but not sure if they are all they are cracked up to be for PvE. I would have to train up all the support skills as well, resulting in a longer overall time.

What are your experiences and what are the pros and cons that you guys see?


Minmatar benefit from both Missiles and Projectiles. It doesn't take too long to see if you like them or not. Put a few points in and see what you think. Worst that can happen is you don't like them and go full Projectiles.

And if you haven't considered them before: Drones.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#3 - 2012-01-28 20:18:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Pyrosomniac wrote:
And if you haven't considered them before: Drones.

I'll second that, because even an Amarr pilot can make use of good drone skills (especially for ships like the Curse). Also a path to an Archon.

I started from the other side: I'm a Caldari capital pilot and missile specialist that is becoming a generalist in all the other races.

It takes very little time to train ALL the T1 turrets and missiles, including support skills, to a basic level 3 or 4. All the races of T1 ships to level 4 doesn't take that long either. It gives you a lot of choices and opportunities for fun.

Specializing is what takes a lot of time, and limits your choices. Makes sense of course.
Greybush Threepwood
Doomheim
#4 - 2012-01-28 23:37:17 UTC
Unless you want to fly a tengu, I don't see why missiles would even be considered. Projectiles give you more ships to work with. Ravens are long past their hay-day and the golem is the most annoying of the marauders. I would take a maelstrom, vargur, machariel, or sliepnir, any day over the bog-standard tengu, cnr, golem lineup. Plus the loki is a fine ship when you're in need of a monster em/therm/sig tank.

tldr; Missiles are overrated in the extreme. Having the choice of Lasers and Projectiles is as close to an optimal pve (and pvp) combination as you will find without cross training more than two races.
Captain Avitus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-01-29 00:16:12 UTC
Thank you folks for your replies.

Re: drones, I have them to a point where I am happy and would rather focus on a new weapon system (e.g. all my drone skills would require 2weeks+ to see a marginal return, and I can use T2's)

I may take a closer look at projectiles. I really like how they work, but am not sure whether to go for autocannons or artillery. I'd probably lean more towards artillery since this char is a DPS gunboat that will not be taking aggro.
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#6 - 2012-01-29 08:03:03 UTC
Gurista ships.

Missles plus drones equal entirely different play style.

I moved from amarr ships to them and never looked back.

Everything else is just more guns.
Melerose Tenaku
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-01-29 09:56:20 UTC
Id have to agree with Greybush. Stick with other Turret types, as the shared support skills will put you at a huge advantage should you delve into Minny/ Gal ships. And there are even a few Caldari ships that make good Hybrid platforms
Jacob Stiller
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-01-29 10:31:19 UTC
I hear that the Nightmare is the current FOTM for lvl 4's and incursions. This still uses lasers but requires you to train Caldari Battleship. As you'd be picking up quite a few Caldari ships along the way, you might be tempted to train missles afterwards.
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#9 - 2012-01-29 17:14:31 UTC
2 of the most classic ships in EVE are: The Drake and the Tengu. If you want to fly them right, you need missile skills AND shield skills.

As for BS and PVE: I tend to agree that there are better choices out there than a Raven hull type.

I saw you mentioned a two week time frame, like that was a long time commitment. Missiles and shields at 4's and 5's will take several months. I recommend good Heavies for almost any player tbh.


Some benefits:
Range
No Falloff Penalty
Selectable Damage Type
Cap-less Weapons System
Complimentary Weapons System For Other Ship Types
The Only FOF System In Game
Tidurious
Blatant Alt Corp
#10 - 2012-01-29 21:46:00 UTC
You should be using projectiles, especially for PvE. Much better than missiles, more DPS and min can also use drones fairly effectively.
Cathy Drall
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2012-01-29 23:31:08 UTC
Missiles aren't bad, especially heavies are considered quite good. As RavenPaine said the notorious Drake and Tengu use them but plenty of other ships can fit them as well, except Gallente all factions have a few missile able boats.
A lot of Minmatar have dual weapon system hardpoints and the Amarr T2 Khanid ships all use missiles.

So it's not a waste to train them, especially for PvE.
Bibosikus
Air
#12 - 2012-01-30 01:52:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Bibosikus
Projectiles. Insta-damage over missiles.

Multiple damage types = more missioning flexibility than hybrids.

Minmatar boats are great.

Plus, Mach with Arties for the pure lols of 2-3-shotting BS rats Big smile

Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
Cyniac
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-01-30 12:51:04 UTC
Greybush Threepwood wrote:
Unless you want to fly a tengu, I don't see why missiles would even be considered.


Stealth bombers are fun...
stoicfaux
#14 - 2012-01-30 16:36:15 UTC
Projectiles. As Greybrush stated, "golem is the most annoying of the marauders."

However, since you have EM covered, an HML Tengu should be significantly faster to skill into than large projectile weapons.

As for drones, if you go projectile weapons and decide to fly a Mach, all you need are light drones.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Captain Avitus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-02-02 22:16:14 UTC
Thanks for the input folks!

I'm probably going to settle on projectiles and head in the minmatar direction. The specificity of damage types from missiles is intriguing, but I have almost zero support skills for them. I also like the element of flying contributing to better dps. Missiles just seem to be fire and forget (I know that is simplifying ) and I just like managing transversal, etc etc.

Fly safe o7
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#16 - 2012-02-03 09:58:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Anize Oramara
Theres a reason why Missiles are hyped in PvE: they excel in PvE because PvE is predictable. There's very little variation in PvE, missions are the same, ai is predictable etc. Missiles do the same damage no matter the range from the target (speed could sometimes factor in but not by much). They are also the only FULLY customizable damage type weapon in the game (minmi projectiles all have some kinetic damage and there isn't a high damage short range kinetic option afaik) With minmi ACs you are always in falloff so you want to get as close as possible so there's times you are not doing your full dps. Arty has problems with anything getting "under their guns".

Now of course I HAVE trained large projectiles and is LOVING the Maelstrom with full Meta 4 1400mm arty (insta pops BCs, pop 4 frigs at once etc.) but the CNR is still better/faster for me. I'm not sure why the Golem is the most irritating marauder? Damage is awesome and range is 45-60km depending on skills/rigs.

Missiles is dependable, fully customizable damage that excels in PvE. Also Drake (even with upcoming buff/nerf best explorer/wh/PvE BC) and Tengu(best wh/explorer ship in game and a decent PvP boat to boot) *as considered by the peeps in exploration channel at least and my personal experience.

I am tho training for Loki since Tengu is so overused and OP but I AM training for Golem.

Note with missiles you don't have to train T2 Heavy missiles to train T2 cruise or torp (with guns you have to train small and medium T2 before Large T2s

In the end tho train both and see what you like. If you do train Hybrids go for blasters for that in your face hull melting omgwtf dps (now with longer range thanks to buffed Null ammo) But from what I have seen/understand Guns are normally best for PvP and missiles are best at PvE but either can be used for the other without too much problem.

ps. The infamous "missile delay damage" only applies to first volley, after that its exactly same as normal guns insta damage and ONLY requires you to count volleys to not waste dps (in place of transversal management so whoop de doo ;) ) Though this DOES mean that missiles are slightly less effective in gang/large gang/fleet work unless properly managed.

pss. TRAIN ALL THE SKILLS!!

psss. omg my spelling is horrible fixed some fails.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
OfBalance
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-02-03 12:26:02 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:

Now of course I HAVE trained large projectiles and is LOVING the Maelstrom with full Meta 4 1400mm arty (insta pops BCs, pop 4 frigs at once etc.) but the CNR is still better/faster for me. I'm not sure why the Golem is the most irritating marauder? Damage is awesome and range is 45-60km depending on skills/rigs.


You are comparing a faction BS to a regular, admittedly tier3 bs, with meta turrets. As for the golem, there's a thread about that in Missions and Complexes. The tl;dr is: hard capped at 60km range with t2 torps, required to pack three painters, cannot realize it's full dps against anything smaller than a structure, has a tiny magazine, and basically requires you to fit t2 rigs.

Anize Oramara wrote:

ps. The infamous "missile delay damage" only applies to first volley, after that its exactly same as normal guns insta damage and ONLY requires you to count volleys to not waste dps (in place of transversal management so whoop de doo ;) )


I am not sure what you mean by only applies to first volley. Flight time doesn't change and you do wait for damage to be applied between each volley. That may decrease over time if you are approaching your target(s), ofc. I won't debate which is more obnoxious between volley counting and maintaining proper traveseral velocity for turrets, but at long enough range one can be mostly ignored and the other is essentially constant.