EVE General Discussion

It is fine as it is.

Thanks.

I would not like some kind of intel 'tool' to replace local chat. In fact I would like to see a complete new profession including new ships/modules/anchorables for harvesting intel.

Get rid of local everywhere and replace with a new intel tool

What are you trying to accomplish?

Make it easier to bait and blob? Delayed local will work and no other changes needed.

Kill pvers? Then it will work if they change recons.

Really all these nerf local threads never really say what exactly they are trying to accomplish. In the meantime they will **** up the game.

Some claim they get upset because its free intel and think you should have to hit a button or something. If the problem is that it is free then make us pay concord a fee to see local.

Change the game for the better how? Specifically what do you want to do in game that local prevents?

Let me give specific examples of how no local will ruin my game:

I know I use local to avoid getting blobbed when there are tons of wartargets in the same corp as a bait ship. So i know without local I would take the bait and get blobbed *allot* more.

I know that when I see local spike after i start a fight I may want to burn away from whatever I am fighting or risk getting blobbed. So I know without local I would have even less of a chance of avoiding getting blobbed by a fleet jumping in.

I know that when I see no one in local I will just be wasting my time scanning the system down. So I know I will waste more time if local is removed.


In other words I know allot of specifics of how no local will make my game experience much worse. How specifically will it make your game better?

Also local is not omniscient. It doesn't tell you what ships or even if the person is docked. It does tell you the minimum necessary to determine if there is an enemy blob in the system. That is it tells you how many and if they are in the same corp or alliance.



You mean people won't know a blob moved into system? Or is already sitting on grid with the bait cloaked?

When people are uncertain what size force they are dealing with in eve their response is to plan for the worse and ship up and get in a big fleet. That way they can take on whatever is out there.

It is only because of intel tools that people can take *reasonable* risks and do small scale or solo pvp. I see you do allot of it so surely you know this. I admit I am really confused by someone with your experience advocating this.


We may just disagree. I think we get more than enough bait and blob in eve.




IMO Requiring even more effort/time to get a decent pvp fight in eve is not the way to go. CCP should be thinking the opposite. How can they make it so players can get more fights in less time.




Thats the first step but then you also want to see who is in what ships and hopefully even get eyes on them. You know this.




I'm glad you admit this. It shows you understand this is pretty important.

Thats why I ask: why mess with it? I mean specifically what is it that you want to do in game now, that you can't do due to local?

The only place it really makes sense to not have local (RP/game fiction wise) is wormholes . Local in k-space is fine as is

there aint no rp in this game that says local has to be immediate for everyone. eve fluff has always been about local being optional

You haven't indicated what in particular you can't do now that you would like to do if local was nerfed.

Your survey is a bit skewed as well.

1) because it doesn't offer anything concrete. It just sort of says would you like "something better." Something more balanced? Sure we all like balance. Who is the guy that wants imbalance? But you never indicated what specifically you can't do now that you think you would be able to do without local so we can't tell to whom in particular local favors in an imbalanced way.

2) Most people who don't want it changed will not even read this thread. If I put a survey up asking who would like more variety of clothes in the nex store I would probably get a higher percent of people indicating they would prefer that than the population at large. That is because people who don't really care to change the status quo will be less likely to respond. To that thread.

I think we should look at how people are voting with their feet. The main difference between known space and wormhole space is the lack of local. Not many want to live there. If 60% of eve decided to live in no local wormholes I think that would be decent evidence that people really want it changed.

Move through a system without anyone knowing that I'm moving through the system. As it stands, this is only possible if they aren't looking at local for whatever reason. It can help with corp/alliance logistics, ratting/mining in out-of-the-way systems, as well as make getting the drop on said ratters/miners much more fun. The way I see it, it's a good thing for everyone all around.

I'd be out in k-space rather than in a wormhole if k-space didn't have local, or maybe just had local in empire space with the option for null alliances to upgrade their own space with something similar. It's hard to get the same massive scale in wormholes that you do out there, and I miss that. Local ruins too much, though.

First, sorry for the delayed response… I didn’t respond right away because your inquiries deserve a well thought-out response… Please realize I’m NOT suggesting just removing local, but replacing it with an intel system. Something that’ll let you know quickly how many ships are in space, but not who they belong to nor what they are. Something that would allow you to fly around and gather that information, rather than showing everyone’s identity the moment you enter local. I realize many people that posted in this thread suggesting more extreme measures than I advocate… Please do not confuse their suggestions and mine.

Specifically, when I enter a system I don’t want the locals knowing WHO I am unless they scout me, but they should know someone came into space. From the other side, when I enter a system, I should know how many ships are out and about, but have no clue as to who they are unless I scout them. Local prevents anyone from traveling through a system anonymously, and I specifically wish for this to change!
How does this change the game for the better?

1.) I think it would go a long way to hide nomadic nullsec expeditions… both for PvE and PvP. With the ability to hide your identity, you won’t show up on intel networks nearly as quickly, which gives you more time to hunt, more time to plex/mine/whatever. For PvP, you can hide your numbers better by traveling through system single-file, and/or you can hide your intentions until deep into enemy territory. For PvE, squatting in someone’s backyard is more viable for low-use systems. While this won’t work for small active sov holders, it will work in large renter-style sov empires especially during off-peak hours.

2.) This will alter deeper nullsec travel (which is too safe atm). It allows travel through nullsec to be safer for the cautious CTA’er returning home alone, as they can hide who they are easier, and are thereby less likely to be hunted. At the same time, it’s more dangerous for the careless “sov-empire” dweller that assumes the unknown in system is friendly and warps into their bubble.

3.) It is more game-immersing. Its immersion goes beyond changing the weird I-can-instantly-ID-any-capsuleer mechanics into some type of believable system. Rather than travel from system to system and always knowing who is in system, you suddenly have lists of unknown pilots and ships to identify. Even when deep within blue territory, this will make nullsec feel less safe. Constantly people proclaim nullsec is safer than empire, and the PRIMARY reason is it’s very easy to identify when an enemy is about. A proper change won’t completely remove this security blanket, but turns it into a veil that allows for chilly times!

4.) It would alter the blues game. If you have a lot of friends that regularly travel through your systems, you end up with lots of unknown yet friendly traffic. Suddenly those friends make it harder to identify hostiles, thereby creating a nice in-game vulnerability directly associated with the number of blues you maintain. Even if the new intel system allows a form of self-identification, I’d hope it leaves some exploitability and/or ambiguity when out-of-corp/alliance capsuleers identifying themselves.

Most of your “game-ruining” fears should be alleviated by points A&B, especially points 2&3. I agree you should know how many ships are in space and when “local is spiking.” As for point 1, my bulletins suggests a system that does NOT quickly tell you who is in local, but forces you to scout the system for that information. As you stated, this is already part of proper intel:

If you feel pressed for time, or are too lazy to scout the system, then yes, you could get blobbed more. But if you take more than the “first step” in gathering intel, then nothing changes from how it is now.

I tried to address how this will improve the game. Please let me know if you disagree with my projected outcomes, and whether they are actually a benefit to the game.

I also tried to address why it WONT ruin your game in the manners you suggested, but please let me know if I’m off base.

To be continued: