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Highsec Concerns about CSM- no representation? Highsec's fault? Help from CCP?
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JC Anderson
RED ROSE THORN
#21 - 2012-01-27 01:33:57 UTC
Oh and the queen of spoons did have a fairly polished CSM campaign video too. ;) I could barely understand her though.

http://evajobse.net/TakeCare/movie.php
BLACK-STAR
#22 - 2012-01-27 01:35:49 UTC  |  Edited by: BLACK-STAR
Yeah totally a moron. Totally.

Edit: also read OP and it's crying. thread is baiting attention. Also look, let Atticus make a few billion threads of nonsense discussion and compare to this. Just as boring.

Edit: oh, if op enjoys hi sec more and Feels CSM is inadequate post on your main and then let out your all seriousness. Cause there isn't a problem unless you want to cry some.
Tian Nu
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2012-01-27 01:40:44 UTC
it is normal that the majority are in hi sec (easy acess to trading hubs, missions probably the first income for many) you go in 0.0 get blow up on first gate poded (as you don't know about clones you lost somme SP) that experiance was realy bad so it may take you while to recover.
Then one day you in hi sec minding you own busseness you pick up can lose youre hi sec not suposed to go boom ship now you need to recober from that.
Thne you take two roads first you are biterr and quit eve and play something else not neseserely WoW or start reading materials understend the game mecanics and soon become the ones from yesteday that scared you.
Is cicle of evE.
This game is not for every one specialy when cry babys try to make it even worst for hi sec players and beter for them so called F1 F2 leet 0.0.

Father O'Malley about Darius III begging for whelp: “Hows that working out for ya ? I make it 02:21 and all I see is you begging Riverini to get numbers and trying to recruit from the incursion public channel.”
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#24 - 2012-01-27 01:41:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Issler Dainze
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
The game isn't about hi-sec carebear stuff. There is a reason why CCP hasn't released a mining trailer or advertised the game as "Spend hours carrying stuff around space!" I'm pretty sure that most of us joined cause we wanted a sci-fi adventure, and nothing says "Adventure is out there!" like shooting at rocks /sarcasm.

Personally I feel the purpose of Hi-sec is to provide a safe place to make cash so you can go into unsafe places and lose all of that cash. Unless Low/Null is buffed it's rather difficult to try and fund your combat through combat unless you become a suicide ganker or are extremely lucky.

Remember, the game used to be entirely "Combat Space", Hi-sec was introduced to try and make the game a bit more playable, rather than constantly getting blown up as you try to get further into the game.

However that doesn't change the fact that this game is, for the most part, about ship combat, hence why most of the ships in the game are for combat.

Because of this, I feel it is most appropriate that CSM represents the Low/Null community.


I have to disagree, Eve is about all manner of activities and mining is one of them. Why do you think mining couldn't be made a lot more interesting and rewarding?

Looking at the population of players I expect more folks would disagree with what you think Eve is that would say your model of "high sec for isks then null to get 'sploded, rinse and repeat" is correct.

Mining matters, if it didn't why do some many folks do it? Every time I see a belt stripped clean I want to congratulate the crew that did it! Its time that CCP recognized those pilots and made their lives more interesting and rewarding!

Issler Dainze
Voice of Reason Party Candidate for CSM 7
Caldari Citizen 786478786
#25 - 2012-01-27 01:45:27 UTC
JC Anderson wrote:
Oh and the queen of spoons did have a fairly polished CSM campaign video too. ;) I could barely understand her though.

http://evajobse.net/TakeCare/movie.php


+1

As far as train wrecks go, that video was awesome! Thank god there were subtitles so I could understand what the hell she was saying and didn't have to look at her face.
Ai Shun
#26 - 2012-01-27 01:48:01 UTC
ILikeMarkets wrote:
The difference in playstyle being that the player who accepts PvP is going to make more isk for PLEX out there, and be more capable of sustaining multiple accounts, thus resulting in less overall players to characters? Makes sense.


I could equally say that a pilot focussed on 0.0 would be more likely to invest their training on creating a more complete character and would be less likely to spread their time across multiple characters in favour of creating one, more powerful character.

But, that would be a guess. As I said earlier, we may be drawing unreasonable conclusions from a misleading summary.

Quote:
Anyhow, over the past year I've watched level 4s in highsec get nerfed in their drops and locations (many being pushed to lowsec). I've seen PI in highsec get nerfed, mining in highsec get stomped into the ground. And I can't help but wonder- would these changes have taken place if there were more vocal highsec players on the CSM to say "Wait, stop. What are you doing? There are a TON of players who enjoy highsec gameplay and you are basically screwing them over". The changes didn't move anyone into lowsec or 0.0 that weren't already there.


Perhaps the intention was not to move them, but rebalance aspects of the game? Perhaps the CSM did throw up a question and the reasoning behind it was clear from a CCP perspective. I don't know, I've only read the recent minutes where the economic outlook for various activities appeared to be a reasonable balance between risk and reward. As it should be if the core tenets of EVE Online are adhered to - which ultimately is what we want the CSM to do - to keep EVE Online as EVE Online.

Quote:
This game is, unfortunately, a combination of two things that tthree different groups of people want. Some want internet spaceships, some want hardcore lose everything PvP and some want a nice mix of both.


I really wish we could get away from that distinction and focus more on EVE Online, a game of risk and reward where you are safe only when docked in a station.
Ganagati
Perkone
Caldari State
#27 - 2012-01-27 01:52:34 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:


I really wish we could get away from that distinction and focus more on EVE Online, a game of risk and reward where you are safe only when docked in a station.


I find that that statement doesn't describe EVE alone, but rather most sandbox games in general. UO, Shadowbane, Ultima Online, Darkfall, Mortal Online... each of those were sandbox games that this exact statement applied to (though, out of that list Shadowbane did have safezones... though they are no different than stations in EVE).

The distinction between EVE and the rest is indeed the internet spaceship approach, so that unfortunately is still an important thing to focus on. It is part of what makes EVE... EVE. Along with the mining, marketing, trading, and other things you really can't find in other games. How many trading MMOs exist out there? 0_o

.
Tian Nu
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2012-01-27 01:52:36 UTC
i just want to add EvE is what YOU want it to be sadly the nerf nerf nerf this or that ruin big part of it.

I see some ppl say 0.0 is broken in what ways ?

I stayed there for 8 month i think never jumped once in hisec made mad ISK from plex loot NPC rating is just chery on the cake whith the 1 200 000 rats that you chain honesly apart trading there is no any thing that make as muck money that 0.0 that why am mad as some vets that cry about incursion cos is simply not truth.

Father O'Malley about Darius III begging for whelp: “Hows that working out for ya ? I make it 02:21 and all I see is you begging Riverini to get numbers and trying to recruit from the incursion public channel.”
Ai Shun
#29 - 2012-01-27 01:56:10 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:
I have to disagree, Eve is about all manner of activities and mining is one of them. Why do you think mining couldn't be made a lot more interesting and rewarding?


I'd say it is more a game of risk versus reward and the various activities relate to that. Mining is a low risk activity (Usually) and thus is a low reward activity; to the point that it can be done just about AFK.

Ganagati wrote:
The distinction between EVE and the rest is indeed the internet spaceship approach, so that unfortunately is still an important thing to focus on. It is part of what makes EVE... EVE. Along with the mining, marketing, trading, and other things you really can't find in other games. How many trading MMOs exist out there?


Those are just aspects of the game. The core concept remains as risk and reward, does it not? No matter what activity you partake in (Flying a combat ship, hauling cargo, mining, trading or scamming) and no matter where you do it (null, low, high, mission, Incursion) you are taking a risk seeking a reward.
Vyl Vit
#30 - 2012-01-27 01:56:21 UTC
So funny. The CSM election was as rigged as the Legendary Tournament last year...rigged.

CSM represents themselves and their buddies who bloc voted them in. CCP is stuck with the system, as they thought of it, and can't handle the egg on their faces if they admitted it wasn't such a good idea.

BUT, if you want a lop-sided sandbox where all the sand is in one end, and everybody else gets the crabgrass...it's a good system, and works just fine.

BTW

Vote for me for CSM! I'm really good at thinking I'm right and everybody else is just plain wrong!

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.
Ganagati
Perkone
Caldari State
#31 - 2012-01-27 01:59:32 UTC
Tian Nu wrote:
i just want to add EvE is what YOU want it to be sadly the nerf nerf nerf this or that ruin big part of it.

I see some ppl say 0.0 is broken in what ways ?

I stayed there for 8 month i think never jumped once in hisec made mad ISK from plex loot NPC rating is just chery on the cake whith the 1 200 000 rats that you chain honesly apart trading there is no any thing that make as muck money that 0.0 that why am mad as some vets that cry about incursion cos is simply not truth.


You basically just answered the question you asked. 0.0 is meant to be the PvP space. The mad moneys and all that are there because risk exists, and also to help even out the fact that you A) Will lose a ton of ships and B) Wont be farming as much cause you'll be fighting more.

But what if there is no risk? Well, why wouldn't there be? That's because there are no players. 0_o Look at the chart in the OP. Now, someone once told me that 1/3 of EVE space is made up of highsec. The other 2/3s are lowsec, 0.0 and WH. maybe that's true, maybe not. But if it is, that means that 2/3s of the game is populated by 33% of the characters. How are you going to find PvP like that? You have what... thousands of systems to roam in and look for how many players?

0.0 is broken because you can sit around for months and never get killed. Never risk getting killed. You can afk for hours just floating by a planet, no protection, and still be there when you return. 0_o

Is that really what 0.0 players signed up for? I know it wasn't for me. The only chance I had to get ganked was on the way to and from highsec, and that just ruined the game for me. Hell, highsec was MUCH more dangerous for me, both in a 0.0 corp and an NPC corp. In a 0.0 corp, there was a lot better chance of seeing reds in Jita than seeing them anywhere in 0.0 space. And in an NPC corp I had alts get suicided 10-20x more often since I started this game than I had my 0.0 ratting toons get ganked.

And don't even get me started on how long it takes to find someone when roaming :(

0.0 is very big, and very sparcely populated. :( THAT is why it is broken.

.
Zirse
Risktech Analytics
#32 - 2012-01-27 02:00:29 UTC
JC Anderson wrote:
Oh and the queen of spoons did have a fairly polished CSM campaign video too. ;) I could barely understand her though.

http://evajobse.net/TakeCare/movie.php


Oh god. Populist politics at their best.
Ganagati
Perkone
Caldari State
#33 - 2012-01-27 02:01:16 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
I have to disagree, Eve is about all manner of activities and mining is one of them. Why do you think mining couldn't be made a lot more interesting and rewarding?


I'd say it is more a game of risk versus reward and the various activities relate to that. Mining is a low risk activity (Usually) and thus is a low reward activity; to the point that it can be done just about AFK.

Ganagati wrote:
The distinction between EVE and the rest is indeed the internet spaceship approach, so that unfortunately is still an important thing to focus on. It is part of what makes EVE... EVE. Along with the mining, marketing, trading, and other things you really can't find in other games. How many trading MMOs exist out there?


Those are just aspects of the game. The core concept remains as risk and reward, does it not? No matter what activity you partake in (Flying a combat ship, hauling cargo, mining, trading or scamming) and no matter where you do it (null, low, high, mission, Incursion) you are taking a risk seeking a reward.


True, but isn't that the same with Darkfall or UO? I appreciate what you are saying, and you certainly are not wrong... I'm just trying to understand what the distinction of this game vs the others is if this game isn't primarily played to be Internet Spaceships. >_>

.
Tian Nu
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2012-01-27 02:06:01 UTC
the tournement was not riged it was metagaming Twisted

as for the way CSM works rules can be changed for example:

1, no leder of corp whith 100 members can aply (this prevents goons from beeng elected) cos they will always be on CSM (i dont say goons dont need to be on the board) is just that whith numbers the election is not democeacy
2, alow only ONE candidate per subject for example if 10 aliances from low sec apply let them pick number and let some software decide who is accepted
3, make shore that the and board is made of 3 of each representatifs

3 for 0.0
3 for low sec
3 for hi sec

4, only accept ppl whith hoorable reputation (mitani and darius are not honorable)

5, vote for lady spank cos she make me smile so many times in her writings on the forum

Father O'Malley about Darius III begging for whelp: “Hows that working out for ya ? I make it 02:21 and all I see is you begging Riverini to get numbers and trying to recruit from the incursion public channel.”
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#35 - 2012-01-27 02:12:26 UTC
Caldari Citizen 786478786 wrote:
JC Anderson wrote:
Oh and the queen of spoons did have a fairly polished CSM campaign video too. ;) I could barely understand her though.

http://evajobse.net/TakeCare/movie.php


+1

As far as train wrecks go, that video was awesome! Thank god there were subtitles so I could understand what the hell she was saying and didn't have to look at her face.


I never liked that video, almost seemed like an ad for the MIni.

Now here are some good campaign videos! :-)

Issler Dainze for CSM

Mazzilliu for CSM!



Issler
BLACK-STAR
#36 - 2012-01-27 02:12:53 UTC  |  Edited by: BLACK-STAR
Ganagati wrote:

Blah blah, blah blah blah. How many trading MMOs exist out there? 0_o

Oh wow I guess there is none genius. *cough* op alt

Op (alt) and to whom it concerns,
Eve is a stand alone game and if you think you failed the game by not having CSM or developers dishing out Cake to a bunch of fat care bears bloated on incursions and spiking PLEX above and beyond, I think everything is just fine for hi sec. How about try and vote in some irrational care bear that only knows 1 side of the game to start screwing things both sides for everyone? Oh, well, that doesn't work that way, I guess CSM are people who actually play the game and were voted by a conceous body than just forum rant alts/accounts of morons.

Have a nice day and good luck with your non existent issue. Play the game. There's nothing of the matter. Get a vote or get out with your alts, or give your stuff away and leave the game. Not a problem for you anymore then.


Edit: oh yeah, I must be drunk... Oh, nope. I picked a fantastic thread to point out someone who doesn't know all too much of either sec and whines "it's not fair" like a kid, pretty much. Love it.
Tian Nu
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2012-01-27 02:15:57 UTC
Ganagati wrote:
Tian Nu wrote:
i just want to add EvE is what YOU want it to be sadly the nerf nerf nerf this or that ruin big part of it.

I see some ppl say 0.0 is broken in what ways ?

I stayed there for 8 month i think never jumped once in hisec made mad ISK from plex loot NPC rating is just chery on the cake whith the 1 200 000 rats that you chain honesly apart trading there is no any thing that make as muck money that 0.0 that why am mad as some vets that cry about incursion cos is simply not truth.


You basically just answered the question you asked. 0.0 is meant to be the PvP space. The mad moneys and all that are there because risk exists, and also to help even out the fact that you A) Will lose a ton of ships and B) Wont be farming as much cause you'll be fighting more.

But what if there is no risk? Well, why wouldn't there be? That's because there are no players. 0_o Look at the chart in the OP. Now, someone once told me that 1/3 of EVE space is made up of highsec. The other 2/3s are lowsec, 0.0 and WH. maybe that's true, maybe not. But if it is, that means that 2/3s of the game is populated by 33% of the characters. How are you going to find PvP like that? You have what... thousands of systems to roam in and look for how many players?

0.0 is broken because you can sit around for months and never get killed. Never risk getting killed. You can afk for hours just floating by a planet, no protection, and still be there when you return. 0_o

Is that really what 0.0 players signed up for? I know it wasn't for me. The only chance I had to get ganked was on the way to and from highsec, and that just ruined the game for me. Hell, highsec was MUCH more dangerous for me, both in a 0.0 corp and an NPC corp. In a 0.0 corp, there was a lot better chance of seeing reds in Jita than seeing them anywhere in 0.0 space. And in an NPC corp I had alts get suicided 10-20x more often since I started this game than I had my 0.0 ratting toons get ganked.

And don't even get me started on how long it takes to find someone when roaming :(

0.0 is very big, and very sparcely populated. :( THAT is why it is broken.


ok i got ya more now.

but if you want 24/7 pvp you beter of camping Ammake

i personaly started in CO2 in the impass warr and after few months of blobing every day i think we where all tiered (it become like grinding missions) it was not chalenging pvp it was F1 F2 pvp

then we went to Venal and i got to admit i was happy we where on ISK making as many of us needed to recover from the warr loses

Nothing prevented me once i ran the after DT plexes to camp the VG gate and engage in some solo pvp died some time kiled some time all was fun

Roaming was easy we just needed to make 20 jumps and go shoot at goons they always give you fight and then go back to ISK farmin solo pvp or what ever any one in the corp was doing

But after while all that got boring to and the hisec cicle started again and now am bored of hisec i may look up for 0.0 again

Don't you think no mather what we will do EvE will get boring at some point

Father O'Malley about Darius III begging for whelp: “Hows that working out for ya ? I make it 02:21 and all I see is you begging Riverini to get numbers and trying to recruit from the incursion public channel.”
Ganagati
Perkone
Caldari State
#38 - 2012-01-27 02:16:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Ganagati
BLACK-STAR wrote:
Ganagati wrote:

Blah blah, blah blah blah. How many trading MMOs exist out there? 0_o

Oh wow I guess there is none genius. *cough* op alt

Op (alt) and to whom it concerns,
Eve is a stand alone game and if you think you failed the game by not having CSM or developers dishing out Cake to a bunch of fat care bears bloated on incursions and spiking PLEX above and beyond, I think everything is just fine for hi sec. How about try and vote in some irrational care bear that only knows 1 side of the game to start screwing things both sides for everyone? Oh, well, that doesn't work that way, I guess CSM are people who actually play the game and were voted by a conceous body than just forum rant alts/accounts of morons.

Have a nice day and good luck with your non existent issue. Play the game. There's nothing of the matter. Get a vote or get out with your alts, or give your stuff away and leave the game. Not a problem for you anymore then.


lolwut?

I gotta admit, your inane and at this point I'm assuming drunk, rambling/accusations keep this thread pretty well spiced up. It makes no sense, but hell... it's amusing all the same. Lol

Keep it up, buddy!

.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#39 - 2012-01-27 02:19:00 UTC
ILikeMarkets wrote:
There is no way to force players to 0.0. You can force players to quit and you can make their game play experience miserable, but in the end the death penalties in this game are so severe that many players who aren't already willing to deal with them, won't be in the future no matter how much stick and how little carrot you use.

Wait. I recall a propaganda poster about someone who got podded and lost Caldari Battleship V because he didn't upgrade his clone.

Always make sure to check your clone can hold your skillpoints and upgrade if necessary.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
ILikeMarkets
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2012-01-27 02:23:56 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
ILikeMarkets wrote:
There is no way to force players to 0.0. You can force players to quit and you can make their game play experience miserable, but in the end the death penalties in this game are so severe that many players who aren't already willing to deal with them, won't be in the future no matter how much stick and how little carrot you use.

Wait. I recall a propaganda poster about someone who got podded and lost Caldari Battleship V because he didn't upgrade his clone.

Always make sure to check your clone can hold your skillpoints and upgrade if necessary.


lol I dont even consider that a stiff death penalty. Drop chump change and get a better clone. If you lose it, you are out of luck and it is really no one's fault but your own (UNLESS you can't access the medical tab in your station and you are bound there- such as an old player who left for a while and returned months/years later. THEN it just sucks to be you... be prepared to lose a few skills trying to get to highsec/another medical facility).

I was talking about ships getting destroyed, basically akin to UO's lose all your inventory/equipment upon death.

Proof that capital ships are rare in EVE: http://imgur.com/gallery/jJJE1