Market Discussions

I agree, although I'm not sure most people get entirely what you're getting at.

Even though the price of plex is determined by the market the market mechanism does not mean thatt all players are effected the same way, or that the market driven price is best from a game design perspective.

Different people play different ways and enjoy different parts of the game.

Game design is about creating mechanics to make the game enjoyable to the most people. That doesn't mean that design needs to make all content enjoyable to all players.

As you pointed out, newer players have different abilities to earn isk, its always been that way. Some people like PVE more than others and make more isk, its always been that way. Some people like to concentrate time on economic activity trading and industry.. its always been that way.

Yet, even though "its always been that way" in the scenarios above, that does not mean that the differences have not become more pronounced. The amount players can earn per hour can be nerfed. The amount newer players can earn per hour can be buffed....yet each of those have issues... taking away anything leads to disatisfaction and pumping more isk into the game to the large lump of players beflow the 6 month average play window could fuel an already difficult to moderate inflation.

My concern though is that isk dynamics that have very wealthy players that have huge cash flow from ammassed fortunes and control of alliance institutions can pay for plex at a level that is hurts the social and game play dynamics for players at the center of the bellcurve. (btw, many of those people with instituational controll of moons use the plex to pay for alt accounts for titan pilots that are there not for their own enjoyment but to bolster the stregnth of the isntituion and provide its members with titan bridges and funding for ship replacement programs by continuing to controll moons)

The center of the bell curve is where CCP needs to be most careful about keeping people happy.

My concern:

The amount that the very wealthy in isk (or large moon controlling alliances paying to maintain titan alts) gives the player with $ to spend too much ISK for their dollar.

The danger I see is that people willing to pay a smaller amount extra $15 now and then, can have so much more isk than their other corp members with similar distaste for PVE, that the divide in ships they can fly becomes too pronounced.

Many people (not all but many) just don't like the idea of paying more for a game or the general concept of getting more game assets for more rl $ (the might see it like micro-transactions.

If it rubs them wrong that if they don't pay extra they can't field standard fleet ships ... if $ goes too far with isk this is more likely to happen... they might feel the game is out of whack.

While it is a judgement call without a huge amount of data to support or deny my feeling, my experience has been that there are a awful lot of people who are the types I like to do pvp with that both don't like farming too much, struggle making isk nearly as efficeintly as others, and don't like the idea of telling their wives they'r going to take more out of the family budget to fund game play that they already might see as excessive.

There will always be massive variation in the resources different players have.

It doesn't matter if the resource in question is PLEX, in-game currency, out-of-game currency, friends, skill points, game knowledge, real-life intelligence, playing time or whatever. You can't fix it for there to be an even playing field, and if you could it would be bad thing.

This whole argument is flawed.

Everyone pays for EVE. If you pay for your gametime with a PLEX, someone else shelled out $15 for you.

If anything, the players who can only afford to play EVE via PLEX actually COST CCP potential revenue.

When someone buy's a GTC and coverts to PLEX, CCP makes say $30. now if those PLEX sit in game and never get redeemed for gametime. OR if they get blown up. That is FREE MONEY for CCP. (sort of). Basically CCP got $30 which was used for extra internet pixels.

Now if someone comes along and uses that PLEX to extend their gametime, CCP now lost a potential $15 that the user otherwise would have spent to extend their gametime.

So if you have a player who only plays via PLEX, and would quit otherwise, CCP isn't technically losing money from them quitting. CCP doesn't make any money from people who redeem PLEX. They make money from people who buy GTC and turn them into PLEX.

Derath I dont know why your atacking me on a personal level but I urge you to stop I agreed with you buddy.....let it go....

Be constructive or find someone els to troll I wont reply directly to you from now on unless what you have to say is on constructive and progressive discussion level although the bumping of this thread you have provided is apriciated.

Diomedes Calypso thankyou and clearly you have a grasp on what im getting at...

I totally agree with what you are saying Large scale opperations sitting on potentially trillions of isk a year have can literally play god with average people whom just want to log on do there thing log off,

Goons have threatened that they will be starting a new trype of market manipulation which would be bigger than the gallente ice gank they recently orchastrated could the former pre curse the latter? is there plan just to break the game by starting some sort of plex based war on ccp? if so what will ccp do to stop them and how will they prevent such assaults from happening in the future??

With the exception of the "possible" thing, nothing has been a personal attack. And that was a playful jab back from your playful jab at me.

Everything else has been refuting your arguments on the economy and mechanics of PLEX. Maybe you just didn't read those parts.

As someone who always pays for gametime, I don't really see the issue. Nobody has a right to play for free. Any other MMO makes you pay no matter what, this one gives you an option. I like that.

I also like that I can legally buy ISK if my incompetent ass goes afk in a Level 4 with my pimped mission boat. Regulating PLEX prices would be stupid for CCP. If they limit the value of their product, they will sell less of it.

Also, I have doubt about how many of these PLEX-only players are actually distinct individuals. Rather, I imagine a large percentage are alts. As such, them desubbing doesn't really affect gameplay very much as the human can only play so many accounts at one time. Many are just sitting there ticking along and training. I doubt there would be a huge decrease in the number of actual humans playing the game.

TL;DR Quit whining and find enough cash to pay, or get better so you can buy your PLEX.

"It must be stated that contrary to public perception, it is in CCP’s interest to have the PLEX prices low (as opposed to high) because of the number of users using that subscription method. There is no guarantee that those users will switch over to other methods could they not afford PLEX with ISK. Nor is it in CCP’s interest that users have to grind more in order to maintain their subscription method should the price of PLEX go up – using more of their time in the game to pay for PLEX and not to enrich the EVE environment.
CCP is therefore closely monitoring both the PLEX trade and the economy in general, very closely."


The bottom of page 9 of the csm minuets Sir.

I like the part about enriching the enviroment which is perhaps another problem ccp is adressing alltogether f less people had to grind the more they would pvp or perhaps settle in new areas of space and start there own eve chapter, rather than the obvious work for plex slavery which is currently insuing.

Ofcourse i understand !!!

I buy 2 caracalls from you which means 1 guy whom mined that ore gets a percentage of my isk and yours also the guy whos buying the minerals and shipping them from that guy who mined them in the first place makes a cut who inturn makes a cut from you when you buy something els hes buying and selling for a marginal profit on the market....behind all this there is a Goon member whom has secretly bought all of the rest of the caricalls and will keep on buying them untill we all pay well over the odds for carricals and have to go fly gaylente instead....


See crystal clear understanding their sir....

Yes, I actually read the entire PLEX section, rather than the one quote out of context. And yes I agree PLEX has a danger for market manipulation and so forth.

But it does not change the hard fact that CCP does not make any money from the guy who uses a plex for gametime. None, zero, nada. They make money from the guy who bought the GTC and turned it into a PLEX.

Now those PLEX players are important in the sense that they are buyers for the people that purchase GTC's So yes there has to be a balance between the two.

I guess at this point the real question is what is this thread really about at this point. If I may try to distille down your arguments (you can correct me if I am wrong), your original arguments for this thread revolved around.

1. The danger of imminent PLEX inflation (1bil isk PLEX)
2. A possible solution being an artifical cap on PLEX pricing.

at this point it seems

1. PLEX inflation is obviously a possibility, but the overall effects on the game at this point is largely wild speculation.
2. As you mentioned you agreed, an artificial cap is likely not a good solution.

So where to take this thread now?

hahahahaha no.

There is not much than can be directly done about PLEX prices because price controls simply fail. They're not just "not a good solution", they aren't a solution at all. A price cap would cut into supply, so while they'd be "cheaper", they may also not be available at all. The supply/demand curve works for both the buyer and the seller.