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AF Changes are not fair to all races
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Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#41 - 2012-01-26 00:01:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Tanya Powers
@OP

hem, Enyo with light neutrons, active tank and crappy top speed just above 2200m/sec does "just" 370dps ... and has about 6k EHP. With recent buff and 40% range increase your neutrons are hitting stuff up to max 8.5km and 270dps.

All this without fleet bonus, implants, boosters.

Put 75mm gatlings on it and asskick absolutely everything from 0 to 30km and 200dps.
If there's something I would ask for is not ehp but speed. Everything else man it's just perfect. Give me another frig with 370dps and all t1/t2 fit no implants/boosters/fleet bonus that isn't the Daredevil.

Edit: Now if you're trying to rule the world and scaring everyone with your AF's gang you should realise they're not meant for that. Stick to their role in the gang/fleet they're supposed to act and you should be fine.
Cuko
Shadowflame Cartel
#42 - 2012-01-26 01:23:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Cuko
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Cuko wrote:
Ranked: Edited (Fail typos**)

Close range (under 9,000m)
-
(1) Ishkur (able to engage most anything no matter the set-up)
(2) Vengeance
(3) Enyo
(4) Hawk
(5) Harpy (mirrors Enyo, minus tracking)
(6) Jaguar (everything can be done better by ships above (alot like a Harpy), minus capless weapon system, tracking and superior mobility)
(7) Wolf (alot of assault ships are able to do the same or better and have superior active defence set-ups)
(8) Retribution

Long range (20,000m or more)
-
(1) Retribution
(2) Harpy (May be superior to a Retribution @ range, with superior defences, dual stasis webifier or dual propulsion)
(3) Hawk (standard missile launcher and superior defences)
(4) Jaguar
(5) Wolf


-proxyyyy


It's a little early in the patch to declare clear winners. My gank Wolf can do 300 DPS with a falloff of 12km or 245 DPS with 18km falloff. It also has 8k EHP compared to it's old EHP of 5.9k! Alternatively I can accept a paltry tank of 6.3k EHP and get 15km falloff with faction or 22km falloff with Barrage - DPS staying the same. To put it into context 23km used to be the Vagabond's max falloff range prior to the projectile buff! It is true that I can no longer plunge into another AF and beat down the opponent with a small nuet and superior DPS. I hit them from far - test their defense and offense - and then make a decision if I want to commit. That is traditional Minmatar in a heartbeat.

The Jaguar also can get a 1k alpha with 15km optimal and 18km falloff. Or it can settle for 700ish alpha with 29km optimal and 15km falloff. It will be an excellent kiter.



No!

Winners are there periodz... Not to surprised you've fail to understand how these changes would affect the class and how it interacts with other frigates and destroyers.

Wolf has been supplanted close range. Deal with it! While I was one of the first pilots to come on these forums and advocate for the Wolf being one of the best assault frigates (you know, when everyone was saying it was **** and the Jaguar was better). CCP gave the Wolf a swift kick to the nuts.

Not to mention that increase to null ammunition (5 second reload time). Many things will change. Increasing medium null to whatever the value is now (40% optimal*falloff). Won't change much to non-range bonused blaster ships. However, it does fock around with the frigate class greatly. The Jaguar can do 200 damage per second and have projected damage close to a Wolf, with significant tank. Jaguar can pull arty set-ups off alot better than the Wolf can. However, solo. The Harpy does significantly more damage @ longer range, with superior defences. Jaguar can field a serious active defence set-up and has superior mobility.

As far as a Wagabond Wolf. Harpy and Retribution does it ALOT better, in terms of damage. Minus the set-up below = /, which would be awesome with another Wolf set-up the same way. Solo however, it has shown it self to be difficult.

[FLEET Wolf, Progress]
Internal Force Field Array I
Fourier Transform Tracking Program
Fourier Transform Tracking Program
Fourier Transform Tracking Program
Gyrostabilizer II

Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I
Faint Warp Disruptor I

250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
[empty high slot]

Small Projectile Burst Aerator I
Small Projectile Collision Accelerator I


-proxyyyy
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#43 - 2012-01-26 02:47:00 UTC
So what you are saying is that Minmatar is Eve on hard mode? 'Bout damn time. Twisted
Kha'Vorn
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2012-01-26 03:35:47 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
NO DUDE AFs just get INSTAPOPPED1 My harpy just went "boom" when the thrasher TARGETTED ME. And it was just no fair and I think the destoryer buff went too far. They need to boost AFs with like a 50% role bonus to damage and maybe +50% shield and armor and hull or something because AFs are just sooooo baaaddddd....

Obviously the boost hasn't gone far enough so pathetic why does CCP hate Caldari? Have you noticed how ALL the Caldari turret ships just sukc???1

-Liang


Everyone hates Caldari
Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2012-01-26 07:11:57 UTC
I had a corpie testing a light electron ishkur with 5 hobs against my ishkur tank last night. Now, he was using electrons and hitting my highest resists, and I had a c-type SAR, but he wasnt coming close to breaking my tank until I turned it off for 2 cycles.

Then I docked up and realized I didnt have anything in my new 4th lowslot yet. So, yeah. The tank on these thing is going to be insane. They are going to compete with many cruisers.

If the dps arms race hinted at by the dessie and AF buffs continues, they are going to have to bump up EHP across all ships again...

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!
Tore Smith
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#46 - 2012-01-26 09:10:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Tore Smith
Liang Nuren wrote:
NO DUDE AFs just get INSTAPOPPED1 My harpy just went "boom" when the thrasher TARGETTED ME. And it was just no fair and I think the destoryer buff went too far. They need to boost AFs with like a 50% role bonus to damage and maybe +50% shield and armor and hull or something because AFs are just sooooo baaaddddd....

Obviously the boost hasn't gone far enough so pathetic why does CCP hate Caldari? Have you noticed how ALL the Caldari turret ships just sukc???1

-Liang



now youre trolling, or youre drunk. you tell us.
A Lunchbox
Elysian Technologies Enclave
Fraternity.
#47 - 2012-01-26 16:47:19 UTC  |  Edited by: A Lunchbox
TLDR - race with the fastest ships still doesn't have a t2 frig with a micro that isn't absolute ****.

No, I'm not counting the dram, I never liked that thing anyway (except for catching other drams).

EDIT - I might have to try the artillery mwd jag, but after attempting a kitey 200mm auto wolf with barrage I'm not expecting much.
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