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UK man gets 18weeks in jail for trolling.

Author
VKhaun Vex
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2011-09-17 06:32:58 UTC  |  Edited by: VKhaun Vex
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-14894576

I'm kind of torn here... he didn't really 'do' anything, it's just words so it's hard for me to see him dragged out in public and sent to jail, but at the same time if someone did this to my family I'd probably want to beat them senseless and I'd be glad to see them go to jail for 18 weeks.

This particular case, with all these families touched -and because he intentionally sought them out and sent things to them sepcifically, rather than someone trolling in a public place like here- I think it's justice but I also think it's definitely fair to also call it a slippery slope.

Charges Twilight fans with Ka-bar -Surfin's PlunderBunny LIIIIIIIIIIINNEEEEE PIIIEEEECCCCEEE!!!!!!! -Taedrin Using relativity to irrational numbers is smart -rodyas I no longer believe we landed on the moon. -Atticus Fynch

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#2 - 2011-09-17 07:06:43 UTC
The way the system was intended to work, from English Common Law up to US Constitutional principles, was "no victim no crime".

Unfortunately these laws were written on paper and paper won't protect your rights from bad government any more than it would from a thug trying to rip your eyes out and pee in the sockets.

Governments tend to treat such laws in the same manner. On paper and useless.


Off to jail he goes....

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Pr1ncess Alia
Doomheim
#3 - 2011-09-17 08:06:08 UTC
I think this is a ridiculous action.

Does the man have a right to be an *******? Yes.

Does the family/friend have a right to not have to listen to him? Yes.

The appropriate action would be for Facebook to allow owners of pages to be able to censor and edit their own pages. (do they? It seems stupid if not... I don't know I don't use Facebook it's stupid)

If this man wants to be a complete ass clown, let him do it on his own page. If he wants to do it anonymously, let him do it on his own anonymous page, where people can look and read, or ignore depending on their desire.

In my opinion, you have a right to not like me. You have a right to say terrible things about me as long as it falls short of libel/character assassination. But you DON'T have a right to come into my home and do it in my living room. This seems to be the internet equivalent of what happened.

Tracking him down and arresting him is a joke. Sentencing him to jail is a joke. That 'cyberbullying' like this is possible is a failure of the application/platform it occurred on.

A bit of
"I may not agree with what you say but I'll defend your right to say it"
combined with
"there is a time and a place for everything"

But then again, you people in the UK always have had a ham-fisted idea of justice. (Not saying we haven't developed our own ham-fisted reactions on the other side of the pond but that doesn't validate the actions)
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#4 - 2011-09-17 08:34:13 UTC
He got what he deserved.
Grimpak
Manufactorum.
#5 - 2011-09-17 09:16:32 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
He got what he deserved.




YOUS TROLLIN'!1111one

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right

Nyio
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2011-09-17 09:36:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Nyio
Good to see, he should have had a longer sentence though.

I don't have any kids myself but grew up being bullied and later on got engaged in helping other younger kids.
Lucky for us we didn't have all these mobile phones and conncted computers everywhere, back then it was a more "hands on" and verbal abuse.

It's good to see this debate is starting to take off everywhere, atleast in the EU.

(This must be the most serious post I ever made on here, sorry.)
VKhaun Vex
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2011-09-17 09:41:05 UTC  |  Edited by: VKhaun Vex
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
The way the system was intended to work, from English Common Law up to US Constitutional principles, was "no victim no crime".


The families were the victim of actions that left them emotionally harmed to an extent that they consider criminal. A jury agreed. Now you think there's no victim so there must be no crime...?

Trying to deny one purely on the grounds that you deny the other is the definition of circular logic




Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
I think this is a ridiculous action.

Does the man have a right to be an *******? Yes.

Does the family/friend have a right to not have to listen to him? Yes.


Under what circumstances does the act of pushing your 'free speech' on others become a crime?




Quote:
In my opinion, you have a right to not like me. You have a right to say terrible things about me as long as it falls short of libel/character assassination. But you DON'T have a right to come into my home and do it in my living room. This seems to be the internet equivalent of what happened.


If he'd spray painted a memorial we'd call it vandalism. If he held them captive we'd call it kidnapping. If he'd showed up at their house we'd cal it harassment. Should there not also be an internet equivalent LAW when people seek out people to enrage?

Charges Twilight fans with Ka-bar -Surfin's PlunderBunny LIIIIIIIIIIINNEEEEE PIIIEEEECCCCEEE!!!!!!! -Taedrin Using relativity to irrational numbers is smart -rodyas I no longer believe we landed on the moon. -Atticus Fynch

Pr1ncess Alia
Doomheim
#8 - 2011-09-17 10:16:08 UTC
VKhaun Vex wrote:

Under what circumstances does the act of pushing your 'free speech' on others become a crime?


In my opinion, when that free speech is both damaging/threatening and unavoidable beyond reasonable actions.

After reading the story more carefully (I mearly skimmed it through first time) it seems he went out of his way to repeatedly harass these people so, some action against him does seem just.

VKhaun Vex wrote:

If he'd spray painted a memorial we'd call it vandalism. If he held them captive we'd call it kidnapping. If he'd showed up at their house we'd cal it harassment. Should there not also be an internet equivalent LAW when people seek out people to enrage?


Yes and no. I think there is a gray area where we should leave room for people to voice opinions that others may not agree with or want. In the states we have these assholes called the Westboro Baptist Church that like to protest military funerals.

I'd be lying if I didn't have a side that said I wish someone would just spray these bastards with bullets, or police come and haul the lot of them to jail, but the reason we do not is that there is a place for free speech whether we agree with the speech or not. It's better to allow borderline inappropriate speech than to take drastic legal measure that might stifle more appropriate speech down the road.

The line in the sand from an Americans point of view is traditionally: Your rights end where another persons begin. That is to say, in the case of these WBC basterds they can protest, but they can't outright disrupt the actual funeral.

In the case of the man in the article (again after another review) it seems apparent that he did go out of his way to disrupt these other people. But then again (devils advocate) facebook is a public forum.

My opinion stands. An ideal outcome would have been to give the victims the abilitiy to ignore this man. If he then took further action (created another account soley to further harass) lock him up.

I'm not going to lose any sleep over the guy being in jail. And it was done according to the legal process of your nation. But I always err on the side of caution when it comes to punishing people for words and speech. Barring the ability to censor this man from their facebook page, yes, it was most certainly harassment and criminal.


Gibbeous Moon
Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc
#9 - 2011-09-17 10:40:44 UTC
I am happy with the sentence. He got wat he deserved; not only for the comments he made but also for the cowardly way in which he attempted to post them anonymously.
Sidus Isaacs
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2011-09-17 11:04:13 UTC
Gibbeous Moon wrote:
I am happy with the sentence. He got wat he deserved; not only for the comments he made but also for the cowardly way in which he attempted to post them anonymously.



So now you should be jailed for being an *******?

Enjoy your police state :)
Scorpionidae
#11 - 2011-09-17 11:14:11 UTC
I think its good he got jailed. It aint funny. And if that prick lived anywhere near me he'd get the crap kicked out of him (In game).

Scorpionidae Straight

Every Day I be Trolling

Gibbeous Moon
Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc
#12 - 2011-09-17 11:14:20 UTC
Nothing wrong with being a backpassageHole at all. Just don't inflict it on others.

Furthermore, if one does this anonymously then it could argued that the person did this with afore-thought and malice.

If the person in question isn't willing to behave in society then he should be excluded from it.

Too many people think that it is perfectly acceptable to bahave appalingly on the internet and think that they can get away with it by being anonymous. That cowardly behanour should not be tolerated and is no better, if not worse, than bullying.

This has nothing to do with a police state it's all about social responsibilities. Personally, I am dead against police state (as anyone who know my history of protest since the 70s would know) but I am a firm believer in peple have a greater responsibility to themselves and to others.

(Real name not given here because of the structure of the fourms but I have never hidden it away if anyone asked via private mesage)
Shadowsword
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2011-09-17 11:23:07 UTC
That guy shouldn't have been sent in jail for a few months. he should have been sent to a psychiatric facility for much longer.

This isn't even trolling. Trolling is moking someone and being unconstructive. What that guy has done, was a display of sadism, using the death of girls to hurt their families as much as he could. He's clearly short a few bricks.
Shirley Serious
Gutter Press
#14 - 2011-09-17 11:32:45 UTC
not "trolling", it was "sending a communication of an indecent or offensive nature". Going to the effort of making youtube videos about it is pretty extreme.

I think the law that covers that, also covers the malicious phone calls, malicious letters, and other such things.

however, I think in order for it to be malicious and prosecutable, it has to be aimed at a private setting.

E.g. it wouldn't be prosecutable to write to Tesco's customer services and include drawings of Tesco employees being pornographically assaulted by baboons or something like that. It would be prosecutable to write to Tesco employees home addresses with the same material.

So, are facebook "memorial" pages a private setting? I honestly don't know.

Iirc, you can set groups and pages to private though. Or at least you could. I don't know anymore, never used it, only have vague ideas about it, reading things in which facebook executives say things like "everything should default to public" or "users shouldn't be able to say no" or "if you have nothing to hide" and other similar such things. i.e. if some person you don't like sends you a "friend request", you shouldn't be able to decline it, according to facebook executives. Which is a good reason to avoid facebook, imo.


Though, cemeteries and gravestones are also public places where there's an expectation not to have to encounter abusive comments, e.g. messages written on the headstones, shouting abuse at people, and so on, where there isn't the same freedom of expression as there is in other public places.

so should facebook "memorial" pages be considered equivalent to headstones? I don't know. Maybe. I don't know enough about how easy it is to administer a facebook page, compared to how easy it is to create it. (I suspect it's very, very easy to set up, and difficult to administer).

Just the facts.

Cpt Placeholder
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#15 - 2011-09-17 12:30:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Cpt Placeholder
VKhaun Vex wrote:
If he'd spray painted a memorial we'd call it vandalism. If he held them captive we'd call it kidnapping. If he'd showed up at their house we'd cal it harassment. Should there not also be an internet equivalent LAW when people seek out people to enrage?

No, because the current laws are taking care of it right now apparently.

As far as this case is concerned, I agree with #13, he should've been sent to a therapy.
Cpt Placeholder
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#16 - 2011-09-17 12:37:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Cpt Placeholder
Ugh... meant to edit instead of quoting myself.
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#17 - 2011-09-17 13:53:31 UTC
It does set a precedence now, that's the bigger problem.

As other have suggested, he does need therapy and will only get worse in time. So much that I suspect he'll either go back to prison after this for child molestation, animal cruelty, **** and any other number of crimes that revolve around causing psychological distress to other beings.

He's very ill and as much as hurts to say it, he needs help, not imprisonment - all that will do is give him a grade A course in how to be a criminal.

I pity him - his future is bleak and meaningless.

This space for rent.

Gibbeous Moon
Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc
#18 - 2011-09-17 14:25:00 UTC
Well, his future is less bleak than if he were Sectioned. That really messes up one's future prospects more than a custodial sentence and I am reliably informed that lobbing Pink Slips at people is really the last option.

Also do bear in mind that a lot of mental health issues (as I am reliably informed by my better half: a keyholding mental health nurse) isn't treatable. So 'therapy' most often isn't the answer.
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#19 - 2011-09-17 14:44:06 UTC
Free speech doesn't mean freedom from responsibility.

And i'm really starting to hate the way 'trolling' is used to define things like this. The guy is not just playing around. He's got serious mental problems.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#20 - 2011-09-17 14:52:13 UTC
Sidus Isaacs wrote:
Gibbeous Moon wrote:
I am happy with the sentence. He got wat he deserved; not only for the comments he made but also for the cowardly way in which he attempted to post them anonymously.



So now you should be jailed for being an *******?

Enjoy your police state :)


Got more freedom than you do buddyBlink
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