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AF Changes are not fair to all races
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Mr Hyde113
#1 - 2012-01-25 18:09:57 UTC
Quote:
We have made the following changes to Assault Ships:
All Assault Ships now have a new Role Bonus: 50% reduction in MicroWarpdrive signature radius penalty

The following changes have been made to the Retribution
New bonus: 7.5% bonus to Small Energy Turret tracking speed per skill level.
+1 mid slot
+15 CPU
+200 armor hp

The following changes have been made to the Vengeance
New bonus: 5% bonus to Missile Launcher Rate of Fire per level.
+1 high slot
+10 CPU

The following changes have been made to the Harpy
New bonus: 5% bonus to shield resistances.
+1 low slot
+200 shield hp
+10 CPU

The following changes have been made to Hawk
New bonus: 5% bonus to Missile Launcher Rate of Fire per level.
+1 mid slot
+10 CPU

The following changes have been made to the Enyo
New bonus: +5% damage changed to 10% bonus to damage
+1 mid slot
+10 CPU

The following changes have been made to the Ishkur
New bonus: 10% bonus to drone hitpoints per level
+1 low slot

The following changes have been made to the Jaguar
New bonus: 7.5% bonus to Small Projectile Turret Tracking per level
+1 low slot
+200 Shield
+10 CPU

The following changes have been made to the Wolf
New bonus: 7.5% bonus to Small Projectile Turret Tracking per level
+1 low slot
+200 armor hp
+10 CPU


Can someone explain to me why all races received some kind of base HP buff except Gallente? Oh yeah and Minmatar somehow got both their AF's HP buffed, extra slots, fitting bonuses, and new bonuses?Roll

Next, the Ishkur was given a BS Drone HP bonus, no fitting buff, and no HP buff, the Enyo had a bonus modified to 10% and no HP buff...

The Wolf now has more base armor HP than the enyo, AND has a significant base speed advantage.

I know these are generally welcome changes to the AF class (especially the Retri having 2 mids now) but i think that people were so hung up that they were getting buffed at all, that they ignored the unfairness.

Am I missing something?

Thoughts? Rage? Corrections?
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-01-25 18:16:55 UTC
hace you actually flown them all yet?

I hgave and they got just what they needed, maybe one PG to all ships with a new slot would be sawesome, but still, they are ballenced way better now.

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
Ahrieman
Codex Praedonum
Divine Damnation
#3 - 2012-01-25 18:20:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Ahrieman
I don't think the unfairness is directed at gallente., which is what you seem to suggest. The new Enyo can put out over 500 dps. That's pretty insane for a frigate class vessel. I think it's doing all right. The Jag probably got nerfed (by proxy) more than any other AF.

It's good to know that with the "balancing," an AF gang can violate a BC gang Shocked

Solo Rifter since 2009
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#4 - 2012-01-25 18:23:52 UTC
AFs are still useless because they didn't fix the core problems with them. They're still frigates with crap DPS and a paper tank even though they "boosted the tank" (lol what kind of useless **** is that). Destroyers are putting out 500+ DPS these days and frigates just get instapopped. And that doesn't even count that the moment that a frigate gets shot at by medium guns it just INSTANTLY DIES - INSTAPOP!!!

I can't believe CCP thinks they "boosted" AFs when there's still so much room left to go! And I can't believe that CCP hates Caldari so much. They didn't even nerf the Jag and Wolf whee Winmatar possibly useful AFs1!

Seriously, here's how AFs perform these days: http://kb.heretic-army.biz/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=3187

TOTAL.

****.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Grog Drinker
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2012-01-25 18:27:51 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:

Seriously, here's how AFs perform these days: http://kb.heretic-army.biz/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=3187


Putting an AF in a blender with three of the absolute best frigate killers is hardly a test of their effectiveness...
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#6 - 2012-01-25 18:30:34 UTC
NO DUDE AFs just get INSTAPOPPED1 My harpy just went "boom" when the thrasher TARGETTED ME. And it was just no fair and I think the destoryer buff went too far. They need to boost AFs with like a 50% role bonus to damage and maybe +50% shield and armor and hull or something because AFs are just sooooo baaaddddd....

Obviously the boost hasn't gone far enough so pathetic why does CCP hate Caldari? Have you noticed how ALL the Caldari turret ships just sukc???1

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Grog Drinker
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2012-01-25 18:38:45 UTC
The new destroyers are indeed probably over powered for their price.

http://tuskers.killmail.org/?a=kill_related&kll_id=12226673

Instead of buffing destroyers CCP should have probably introduced new T2 combat oriented destroyers that act like current destroyers do. Then the price could match their abilities.
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#8 - 2012-01-25 18:39:32 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
NO DUDE AFs just get INSTAPOPPED1 My harpy just went "boom" when the thrasher TARGETTED ME. And it was just no fair and I think the destoryer buff went too far. They need to boost AFs with like a 50% role bonus to damage and maybe +50% shield and armor and hull or something because AFs are just sooooo baaaddddd....

Obviously the boost hasn't gone far enough so pathetic why does CCP hate Caldari? Have you noticed how ALL the Caldari turret ships just sukc???1

-Liang

It makes me sad that I honestly can't tell if you're trolling, serious, or trolling about something that seriously bothers you Straight
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#9 - 2012-01-25 18:47:19 UTC
Mr Hyde113 wrote:


Can someone explain to me why all races received some kind of base HP buff except Gallente? Oh yeah and Minmatar somehow got both their AF's HP buffed, extra slots, fitting bonuses, and new bonuses?Roll

Next, the Ishkur was given a BS Drone HP bonus, no fitting buff, and no HP buff, the Enyo had a bonus modified to 10% and no HP buff...


I think this is mostly because Ishkur was already awesome with plenty enough HP, giving it an extra low slot makes it borderline IMBA & OP, that drone HP buff is very useful as it only has drone bay for two flights and people will shoot your drones, it has no fitting issues, but mostly because CCP Tallest actually knows what he is doing- he balances things.



.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#10 - 2012-01-25 18:47:30 UTC
Cambarus wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
NO DUDE AFs just get INSTAPOPPED1 My harpy just went "boom" when the thrasher TARGETTED ME. And it was just no fair and I think the destoryer buff went too far. They need to boost AFs with like a 50% role bonus to damage and maybe +50% shield and armor and hull or something because AFs are just sooooo baaaddddd....

Obviously the boost hasn't gone far enough so pathetic why does CCP hate Caldari? Have you noticed how ALL the Caldari turret ships just sukc???1

-Liang

It makes me sad that I honestly can't tell if you're trolling, serious, or trolling about something that seriously bothers you Straight


AFs totally need a buff they they totally suck and medium guns instapop them NO MATTER WHAT. You can't even go close range against medium guns because you just get webbed and scrammed and neuted and DEAD INSTAPOP INSTAPOP INSTAPOP. Ahriemann is all talking about how someone brought a pair of BCs into our 5 man AF gang and it was just POP POP POP!

AFs are total **** and need another buff because this one just wasn't good enough!!!

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#11 - 2012-01-25 18:54:46 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Cambarus wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
NO DUDE AFs just get INSTAPOPPED1 My harpy just went "boom" when the thrasher TARGETTED ME. And it was just no fair and I think the destoryer buff went too far. They need to boost AFs with like a 50% role bonus to damage and maybe +50% shield and armor and hull or something because AFs are just sooooo baaaddddd....

Obviously the boost hasn't gone far enough so pathetic why does CCP hate Caldari? Have you noticed how ALL the Caldari turret ships just sukc???1

-Liang

It makes me sad that I honestly can't tell if you're trolling, serious, or trolling about something that seriously bothers you Straight


AFs totally need a buff they they totally suck and medium guns instapop them NO MATTER WHAT. You can't even go close range against medium guns because you just get webbed and scrammed and neuted and DEAD INSTAPOP INSTAPOP INSTAPOP. Ahriemann is all talking about how someone brought a pair of BCs into our 5 man AF gang and it was just POP POP POP!

AFs are total **** and need another buff because this one just wasn't good enough!!!

-Liang

Well that clears that up Big smile
Vaine Amarr
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2012-01-25 18:55:48 UTC
I hope this is sarcasm, otherwise Liang is suffering from a severe case of schizophrenia.
Lili Lu
#13 - 2012-01-25 18:56:04 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Cambarus wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
NO DUDE AFs just get INSTAPOPPED1 My harpy just went "boom" when the thrasher TARGETTED ME. And it was just no fair and I think the destoryer buff went too far. They need to boost AFs with like a 50% role bonus to damage and maybe +50% shield and armor and hull or something because AFs are just sooooo baaaddddd....

Obviously the boost hasn't gone far enough so pathetic why does CCP hate Caldari? Have you noticed how ALL the Caldari turret ships just sukc???1

-Liang

It makes me sad that I honestly can't tell if you're trolling, serious, or trolling about something that seriously bothers you Straight


AFs totally need a buff they they totally suck and medium guns instapop them NO MATTER WHAT. You can't even go close range against medium guns because you just get webbed and scrammed and neuted and DEAD INSTAPOP INSTAPOP INSTAPOP. Ahriemann is all talking about how someone brought a pair of BCs into our 5 man AF gang and it was just POP POP POP!

AFs are total **** and need another buff because this one just wasn't good enough!!!

-Liang

You forgot to reiterate that CCP hates Caldari and loves Minmatar and it won't ever change and it is so infuriating that they would present a game to the public and sucker everyone into rolling Caldari and then laugh as they hand them substandard ships so they all die and then also nerf the ships of the persecuted Caldari even more so they can laugh some more at Caldari players and take our money this is so unfair. XXX
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#14 - 2012-01-25 18:58:54 UTC
Lili Lu wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Cambarus wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
NO DUDE AFs just get INSTAPOPPED1 My harpy just went "boom" when the thrasher TARGETTED ME. And it was just no fair and I think the destoryer buff went too far. They need to boost AFs with like a 50% role bonus to damage and maybe +50% shield and armor and hull or something because AFs are just sooooo baaaddddd....

Obviously the boost hasn't gone far enough so pathetic why does CCP hate Caldari? Have you noticed how ALL the Caldari turret ships just sukc???1

-Liang

It makes me sad that I honestly can't tell if you're trolling, serious, or trolling about something that seriously bothers you Straight


AFs totally need a buff they they totally suck and medium guns instapop them NO MATTER WHAT. You can't even go close range against medium guns because you just get webbed and scrammed and neuted and DEAD INSTAPOP INSTAPOP INSTAPOP. Ahriemann is all talking about how someone brought a pair of BCs into our 5 man AF gang and it was just POP POP POP!

AFs are total **** and need another buff because this one just wasn't good enough!!!

-Liang

You forgot to reiterate that CCP hates Caldari and loves Minmatar and it won't ever change and it is so infuriating that they would present a game to the public and sucker everyone into rolling Caldari and then laugh as they hand them substandard ships so they all die and then also nerf the ships of the persecuted Caldari even more so they can laugh some more at Caldari players and take our money this is so unfair. XXX


DUDE I KNOW. WHY DOSE CCP HAET US!!!!!

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
oldmanst4r
oldmanst4r's Corporation
#15 - 2012-01-25 19:09:05 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Lili Lu wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Cambarus wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
NO DUDE AFs just get INSTAPOPPED1 My harpy just went "boom" when the thrasher TARGETTED ME. And it was just no fair and I think the destoryer buff went too far. They need to boost AFs with like a 50% role bonus to damage and maybe +50% shield and armor and hull or something because AFs are just sooooo baaaddddd....

Obviously the boost hasn't gone far enough so pathetic why does CCP hate Caldari? Have you noticed how ALL the Caldari turret ships just sukc???1

-Liang

It makes me sad that I honestly can't tell if you're trolling, serious, or trolling about something that seriously bothers you Straight


AFs totally need a buff they they totally suck and medium guns instapop them NO MATTER WHAT. You can't even go close range against medium guns because you just get webbed and scrammed and neuted and DEAD INSTAPOP INSTAPOP INSTAPOP. Ahriemann is all talking about how someone brought a pair of BCs into our 5 man AF gang and it was just POP POP POP!

AFs are total **** and need another buff because this one just wasn't good enough!!!

-Liang

You forgot to reiterate that CCP hates Caldari and loves Minmatar and it won't ever change and it is so infuriating that they would present a game to the public and sucker everyone into rolling Caldari and then laugh as they hand them substandard ships so they all die and then also nerf the ships of the persecuted Caldari even more so they can laugh some more at Caldari players and take our money this is so unfair. XXX


DUDE I KNOW. WHY DOSE CCP HAET US!!!!!


Internet sarcasm is the best kind.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#16 - 2012-01-25 19:16:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Liang Nuren
oldmanst4r wrote:

Internet sarcasm is the best kind.


You have to be REAAALLLYYY over the top or people start to wonder if you're trolling. Also, being quad scrammed + triple webbed and *STILL* raping an entire BC + BS fleet last night with my Harpy was pretty cute.

-Liang

Ed:


claw
claw
wolf
wolf
slicer
slicer
ishkur
stabber fleet
stabber fleet
stabber fleet
vexor navy
ferox
tornado
raven
+20 man gang we ran from when they were hitting grid

vs

harpy
jag
dram
vengeance
republic fleet firetail
hurricane

Cool

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#17 - 2012-01-25 19:25:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Zarnak Wulf
All we need now is for Naomi to support Liang. Or a pig to fly. That would be awesome. Smile

Edit: Your Harpy fit is now being reverse engineered by the best of Minmatar. It might take some time.... Blink

Second Edit: Nice. Unknowns of course are implants and booster effects. Those would turn it from respectable but manageable to an absolute beast.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#18 - 2012-01-25 20:05:27 UTC
To OP:

An Enyo with a damage control and a reactive nano plate has the same EHP as a Wolf with a damage control, reactive nano plate, and a 200mm plate. It also outdamages a Wolf by 30% comparing faction to faction. More importantly, it outdamages a Wolf throughout scramble range using Null no matter what ammo the Wolf uses. The Wolf can shoot farther outside of scramble range and the Enyo can leave if it doesn't like it.
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2012-01-25 20:08:46 UTC
jesus you people fall for anything
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#20 - 2012-01-25 20:13:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Fronkfurter McSheebleton
What someone has missed, I think, is that gallente frigates often use the hull as a significant part of their tank. (or as their entire tank, in the case of the taranis Shocked )

thhief ghabmoef
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